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Okay, this is a 7th edition Space Wolves list, but pretend it's 9th edition if you aren't familiar.

I have three lists I'm trying to figure out which one conceptually seems stronger. I'm not going to get too detailed here....

Assume the grey hunters in all the lists below take maximal special gear: bolters, bolt pistol, 1 plasma pistol, 1 power first, 1 plasma gun. Wolf Guard has a plasma pistol + frost sword or wolf claw in all squads.

Playing in ProHammer (enhanced 5th edition)

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List 1 - Full Drop
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[145] Wolf Lord (Fangsword, Plasma Pistol, Belt of Russ) - joins grey hunters below

[203] 8 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter + wolf standard
- 5x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[44] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[35] Drop Pod with storm bolter

[85] Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 2

[203] 8 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter
- 5x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[44] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[45] Drop Pod with storm bolter + Locator Beacon

[110] Wolf Priest w/ Bolt Pistol, Crozrius, Wolf amulet, Healing Balms

[203] 8 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter
- 5x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[44] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[35] Drop Pod with storm bolter

[120] Rune Priest w/ Terminator armor, Rune Axe, Psychic Hood, Mastery Level 2

[255] 5 wolf guard terminators
- 1x Assault Cannon + Chain Fist
- 1x Storm Shield + Thunder Hammer
- 1x Double Wolf Claw
- 2x Combi-Plasma + Wolf Claw

[135] Venerable dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Great Wolf Claw, Stormbolter, Smoke

[45] Drop Pod with storm bolter + Locator Beacon

[113] 6 Wolf scouts (plasma gun, 2x sniper rifles, camo cloaks)

[90] 1 Land Speeder (multi-melta + assault cannon)

[90] 1 Land Speeder (multi-melta + assault cannon)

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List 2 - Thunderwolves + Mechanized List
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[190] Wolf Lord on Thunder Wolf w/ Frost sword, plasma pistol, belt of russ, Thunder wolf

[270] 4 Thunder Wolves
1x Stormshield + Thunder Hammer
1x Stormshield + Wolf Claw
2x Bolt Pistol + Power Sword

[85] Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 2

[203] 4 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter
- 1x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[45] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[85] Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade

[85] Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 2

[203] 4 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter
- 1x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[45] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[85] Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade

[110] Wolf Priest w/ Bolt Pistol, Crozrius, Wolf amulet, Healing Balms

[203] 4 Grey Hunters
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x plasma pistol, bolter/CCW
- 1x power first, bolt pistol, bolter
- 1x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
[45] Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol

[85] Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade

[135] Venerable dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Great Wolf Claw, Stormbolter, Smoke

[35] Drop Pod with storm bolter

[94] 5 Wolf scouts (plasma gun, 2x sniper rifles, camo cloaks)

[90] 1 Land Speeder (multi-melta + assault cannon)

[90] 1 Land Speeder (multi-melta + assault cannon)

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Basically pretty similar.

The first has bigger squads in drop pods, but it more reliant on good reserve rolls to a critical mass of force on the table. The second list swaps out the terminators for thunderwolves, and takes smaller units of grey hunters but gets razorbacks with a strong weapon (TL assault cannon).

Of course, there a blends between these.

But what do you all think?

Are you playing 7th or 9th.

Droppod list gets heavily affected by the amount of points still need to deploy.
Wolf scouts are poor at everything.
What is the load out on characters.

Really need a lot more info.

I haven't double checked the points but both lists look like 1250-1500 points rather than 2000 points ones.

List 2 in particular could be a solid start, but it definitely needs more bodies to be a 2000 points list.

I updated the OP to add more detail and points costs

khsofsos wrote:Are you playing 7th or 9th.

Droppod list gets heavily affected by the amount of points still need to deploy.
Wolf scouts are poor at everything.
What is the load out on characters.

Really need a lot more info.

Using a 7th edition list in ProHammer (which is based on 5th edition). Drop pods let me deploy half the pods (rounded up) on turn 1. Other drop pods come in on Turn 2+ with reserve rolls.

We are using basically 9th edition missions for scoring and objective purposes.

I "think" a unit of wolf scouts just won my last game for me by holding a point my opponent couldn't really get to based on the unit's they had nearby. Anyway, they are great for infiltrating out of sight (rather than relying on them entering from reserves) and grabbing objectives.

Blackie wrote:I haven't double checked the points but both lists look like 1250-1500 points rather than 2000 points ones.

List 2 in particular could be a solid start, but it definitely needs more bodies to be a 2000 points list.

These are both 2000 point lists using the 7th edition codex. Armies were smaller in 7th for the most part than they are in 9th. I worked out a list similar to these in 9th and they are about 1600 points.

 Mezmorki wrote:


These are both 2000 point lists using the 7th edition codex. Armies were smaller in 7th for the most part than they are in 9th. I worked out a list similar to these in 9th and they are about 1600 points.

Well, pretty much everything is significantly more expensive now so 7th edition armies should actually be quite bigger. My 7th 1850 points lists were bigger compared to my 9th 2000 points ones.

I think you may have too many expensive upgrades (those are actually cheaper now), the lists aren't really functional with so few bodies. I'd suggest shaving them to the bone and play 1500 points games with that amount of models, you're going to have a lot of trouble otherwise even in very friendly games.

Below is sort of a re-do that's also a hybrid of the two prior lists. I think it might be a bit more robust, as I dropped a bit of wargear.

Two units of Thunderwolves, and the Wolf Lord can be attached to one as needed, or split off on his own.

The two smaller grey hunter squads with razorbacks can move onto objectives in more defensive areas. Each has a wolf guard pack leader (pretty good fighter on their own) and a Rune Priest. We play (in ProHammer) that psykers can choose their ability, so these rune priests take Stormcaller in order to grant the grey hunters +2 to cover saves. Important to work these into cover, but if in the open still get a 5+ and count as being in cover when charged - which is awesome with them having counter-attack.

The scouts infiltrate in order to grab an early objective. With shrouded (also +2 to cover saves) they can be pretty tanky. If objectives are in hard cover they end up with a 2+ cover save!

The Land Speeders are fire support for the razorbacks. As a group with the razorbacks, it's 2 lascannons, 2 multi-meltas, 2 assault cannons, and 2 twin-linked plasma gun shots - which is a fair amount of fire power for taking out vehicles or other critical targets while having some mobility on the field still.

Finally is the dreadnought and the other (bigger now) grey hunter squad in a drop pod. One of these pods can be deep struck on turn 1, the other will arrive on turn 2 automatically (special space wolf detachment rule). The drop pods can be used either way to either grab a key objective (grey hunters), take out a key target (dreadnought). Dreadnought can even be dropped as a distraction to draw fire away from other targets.

The one thing I don't like is that I only have 3 fast attack slots, so the land speeders need to be in a squadron - which makes them less flexible and more vulnerable. I wonder about going back to just 1 thunderwolf unit, and using the points for something else - maybe a small unit of wulfen or wolf guard terminators, which would free up a FA slot to split the Land Speeders apart again.

Thoughts on this one?

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List 3 - Hybrid
=========================================================

Wolf Lord on Thunder Wolf w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol, belt of russ, Thunder wolf, melta bombs [180]

3x Thunder Wolves [235]
- 1 w/ Storm shield + Thunder Hammer
- 2 w/ Storm shield + Wolf Claw

3x Thunder Wolves [235]
- 1 w/ Storm shield + Thunder Hammer
- 2 w/ Storm shield + Wolf Claw

Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Psychic Hood, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 2 - Attached to Grey hunters in drop pod below [95]

9 Grey Hunters [166]
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x bolt pistol, bolter, CCW, + Wolf Standard
- 6x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, bolt pistol [44]
Drop pod with Stormbolter [35]

Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 1 - attached to grey hunters in razorback below [60]

5 Grey Hunters [93]
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 3x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, plasma pistol, bolt pistol[45]

Razorback w/ Lascannon + Twin-Linked Plasma Gun, Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade [85]

Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword, Bolt Pistol, Mastery Level 1 - attached to grey hunters in razorback below [60]

5 Grey Hunters [93]
- 1x plasma gun, bolt pistol/CCW
- 3x bolter, bolt pistol/CCW
- 1x Wolf Guard leader w/ Frost sword, plasma pistol, bolt pistol[45]

Razorback w/ Lascannon + Twin-Linked Plasma Gun, Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade [85]

Venerable dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, CCW, Stormbolter, Extra Armor [130]
Drop Pod with storm bolter [35]

5 Wolf scouts (plasma gun, 2x sniper rifles, camo cloaks) [99]

2 Landspeeders Squadron (each with Multi-Melta + Assault Cannon) [180]

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