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Hi all,

I just returned to the hobby and I really want to field Kharn and Abaddon but I have no idea what works in 9th edition. I have a lot of models so I can change a lot.

The plan was Abaddon footslogging with cultists, Daemon Prince, obliterators and Defiler. 3x rhino with zerkers, Kharn and Exalted Champion will hit juicy targets and objectives.
Helldrake will tie up a heavy hitter turn 1.

I hope the Defiler, Obliterators and Helldrake draw fire away from the zerkers so they can do what they do best... kill maim burn.

Two squads of cultists will sit on objectives in the back field if needed.

I wanted to add a Sorcerer of Slaanesh with Abaddon and maybe a Dark Apostle but ran out of points... also had to cut off the Daemon's wings.

Units Iam concidering Terminators, Helbrutes, Sorcerer, Dark Apostle, Executioner and Mutilators

I haven't played any 9th edition and this is the first list I build in Battlescribe so I hope I did good. Any tips on tactics armylist or anything is greatly appreciated.



 

**++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [43 PL, 13CP, 795pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Battle Size [12CP]:** 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

**Detachment Command Cost**

 

**Legion:** Black Legion

 

**+ Stratagems +**

 

**Council of Traitors [-1CP]**

 

**+ No Force Org Slot +**

 

**Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]:** Mark of Slaanesh


. **2x Dark Disciple:** 2x Close combat weapon

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Abaddon the Despoiler [11 PL, 2CP, 220pts]:** Warlord

 

**Dark Apostle [4 PL, 80pts]:** 5. Trusted War-leader, Blissful Devotion, Council of Traitors, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Slaanesh

 

**Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]:** Angelsbane, Arch-Sorcerer, Combi-bolter, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 120pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 19x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**Defiler [9 PL, 140pts]:** Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

 

**++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [63 PL, -4CP, 1,199pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]**

 

**Legion:** World Eaters

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Exalted Champion [5 PL, 83pts]:** Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne, Power sword

 

**Khârn the Betrayer [6 PL, 115pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [10 PL, 148pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **7x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Chainaxe, 7x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 94pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 94pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Terminators [16 PL, -2CP, 345pts]:** Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, Red Butchers


. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator Champion:** Chainfist, Combi-melta

. **Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon:** Lightning Claw, Reaper autocannon

. **Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon:** Lightning Claw, Reaper autocannon

 

**+ Flyer +**

 

**Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]:** Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne

 

**+ Dedicated Transport +**

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**++ Total: [106 PL, 9CP, 1,994pts] ++**

 

Created with [BattleScribe](https://www.battlescribe.net)

You have the start of a decent list; some of the best archetypes for Abaddon involve using Council of Traitors and a large number of Cultists. 9th edition is all about keeping (and holding) objectives, and planning secondaries well. I've written you a different take on BL/WE with both Abaddon and Khârn, emphasising board control whilst making the most of each faction's strengths:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [45 PL, 13CP, 890pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Legion: Black Legion

+ Stratagems +

Council of Traitors [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [11 PL, 2CP, 220pts]: Warlord

Dark Apostle [4 PL, 80pts]: 5. Trusted War-leader, Council of Traitors, Illusory Supplication, No Chaos Mark

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]: Angelsbane, Arch-Sorcerer, Combi-bolter, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force axe, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 185pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 28x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 28x Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [59 PL, -4CP, 1,107pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 85pts]: Astartes chainsword, Mark of Khorne, Power fist

Khârn the Betrayer [6 PL, 115pts]

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 99pts]
. Berzerker Champion: 2x Lightning Claw
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 99pts]
. Berzerker Champion: 2x Lightning Claw
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 99pts]
. Berzerker Champion: 2x Lightning Claw
. 4x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Elites +

Terminators [16 PL, -2CP, 295pts]: Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, Red Butchers
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator Champion: Combi-bolter, Power fist

+ Fast Attack +

Raptors [5 PL, 75pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [104 PL, 9CP, 1,997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

In this list, your core is the 30-man Cultist squad which can be buffed to 5++/5+++ with Illusory Supplication and Delightful Agonies. The remainder are MSU to hold objectives and perform actions without taking away from the rest of the army. The Sorcerer can ping off some high-damage shots from Angelsbane and Warptime any unit that needs it. The Dark Apostle lets you refund CP on a 5+, helping you mitigate some of the costs.

The WE Patrol is really the hammer of your army; 3 Rhinos unloading ObSec Berzerkers buffed by characters will tear a big dent in any army. Red Butchers can either be kept in Deep Strike or Apoplectic Frenzied up the board and then Warptimed even closer to hold objectives/ be a beatstick. The min Raptor squad can be used for Scramblers in your opponent's deployment zone.

Unfortunately, with the amount of obscuring terrain on 9th edition boards, shooty units like Obliterators can really struggle to get good shots off. Defilers are a great pick, but can suffer without Lord Discordant support. Hope this helps you think about some new ideas, good luck with your first foray into 9th

Thank you so much for the help. Iam afraid I only own 40 cultists.

Iam considering the termies and tge dark apostle. Also the sorcerer sounds good

I'm not entirely sure why Abaddon is supporting a bunch of cultists. The Priest and the Sorcerer are set up to do the same. 400pts protecting 480pts... Its not exactly a scary horde and 5+ invul isnt exactly durable . If you face off against a list with any vehicles you are going to get stalled out. Worse...if they have flyers. I think the black legion detachment needs some serious thought.

The khorne side is much better looking

If the terminators had combi-meltas then you have a credible threat to flyers and vehicles.

2 lighting claws or claws at all on beserker champs may be overkill. I'm more concerned about how few models are in each unit 5 beserkers seems not enough.

Abaddon and Kharne do the same job, Abaddon does it better, both in shooting and mellee. Make the list revolve around one or the other. Kharne I think is better as a disposable missile than a credible leader.

The defiler, or 3 would be a good addition to this list. Or 1, or 3 heldrakes and tons and tons of beserkers. I tend to agree the obliterators while good, probably don't fit so great in this list.

Aren't the lightni g claws a bit overkill?

Tweaked my list a little. Sad I only own one Defiler. Thinking of adding 3 helbrutes.

Like the idea of the Dark Apostlebot sure wgat to remove for it

 

**++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [57 PL, 5CP, 1,104pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Battle Size [3CP]:** 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points)

 

**Detachment Command Cost**

 

**Legion:** Black Legion

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Abaddon the Despoiler [11 PL, 2CP, 220pts]:** Warlord

 

**Daemon Prince with Wings [10 PL, 195pts]:** Daemonic axe, Warptime, Wings


. **Slaanesh**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 114pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 18x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**Defiler [9 PL, 140pts]:** Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

 

**Obliterators [15 PL, 315pts]:** Mark of Slaanesh


. **3x Obliterator:** 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

 

**++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [47 PL, -2CP, 891pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]**

 

**Legion:** World Eaters

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Exalted Champion [5 PL, 75pts]:** Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne

 

**Khârn the Betrayer [6 PL, 115pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [10 PL, 163pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** Astartes chainsword, Power fist

. **7x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Chainaxe, 7x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 109pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** Astartes chainsword, Power fist

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 109pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** Astartes chainsword, Power fist

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**+ Flyer +**

 

**Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]:** Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne

 

**+ Dedicated Transport +**

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**++ Total: [104 PL, 3CP, 1,995pts] ++**

 

Created with [BattleScribe](https://www.battlescribe.net)

Aren't the lightni g claws a bit overkill?

No, not at all - with twin claws, each Berzerker Champion deals 13 attacks on the charge (3 base, + 1 for Hateful Assault, +1 for Butcher's Nails, +2 for the claws, fight twice), and rerolls wounds, all for 28 points. This is absurdly powerful and one of the most efficient combat units in the entire game; it would be silly notto take claws.

Like the idea of the Dark Apostlebot sure wgat to remove for it

You can quite easily drop the Obliterators and Daemon Prince to run the Council of Traitors with a Sorcerer and Dark Apostle. Any points left over can be used for a second Heldrake, Red Butchers Terminators, or anything else which takes your fancy.

Thanks again for the feedback.

What do you think of this list and how would you deploy Abaddon, termies, Apostle and Sorc?


 

**++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [42 PL, 5CP, 785pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Battle Size [3CP]:** 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points)

 

**Detachment Command Cost**

 

**Legion:** Black Legion

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Abaddon the Despoiler [11 PL, 2CP, 220pts]:** Warlord

 

**Dark Apostle [4 PL, 80pts]:** Blissful Devotion, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Slaanesh

 

**Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]:** Angelsbane, Combi-bolter, Force axe, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 120pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 19x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**Defiler [9 PL, 140pts]:** Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

 

**++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [63 PL, -4CP, 1,201pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]**

 

**Legion:** World Eaters

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Exalted Champion [5 PL, 85pts]:** 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Khorne

 

**Khârn the Betrayer [6 PL, 115pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [10 PL, 163pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **7x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Chainaxe, 7x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 109pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 109pts]:** Icon of Wrath


. **Berzerker Champion:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Terminators [16 PL, -2CP, 300pts]:** Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, Red Butchers


. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** 2x Lightning Claw

. **Terminator Champion:** Chainfist, Combi-melta

 

**+ Flyer +**

 

**Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]:** Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne

 

**+ Dedicated Transport +**

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**++ Total: [105 PL, 1CP, 1,986pts] ++**

 

Created with [BattleScribe](https://www.battlescribe.net)

The changes I'd make for that list would be to drop the Icons on the Berzerkers (they're already in Rhinos so Icons are a bit redundant). Add a squad of Dark Disciples for the Apostle and give him the Trusted War-Leader Warlord Trait for CP refund. Give the Termie Sorcerer the Arch-Sorcerer Warlord Trait for Delightful Agonies (lots more survivability).

For the Red Butchers, it's more viable to give them one Lightning Claw and either a Combi-bolter or Combi-melta; if they fail a charge they'll be sitting ducks otherwise. Icons are pretty much essential on them as they have no delivery mechanism besides an unreliable 9" charge out of deepstrike.

You should also drop either the Heldrake or Defiler to give the 3rd Berzerker squad a Rhino, otherwise they'll be shot off the board immediately. Alternatively, you can drop the 8-man squad and add a second Heldrake/Defiler. Berzerkers are very fragile, so they need a transport.

how would you deploy Abaddon, termies, Apostle and Sorc?

Abaddon and Apostle go together with a couple of big cultist squads as a moving ObSec castle. Terminators can either deepstrike in (very risky, has a huge footprint so you're unlikely to get all 10 in), but since they're World Eaters you can use Apoplectic Frenzy and keep them on the board. If you want a T1 charge, you can daisy chain them back to the Sorcerer so he can Warptime them an extra 5".

Great tips again

Worked them all in the list. The idea with the berzerkers was 2x squad of 5 in 1 rhino and 1 squad of 8 with kharn and champion in the other.





 

**++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [43 PL, 13CP, 795pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Battle Size [12CP]:** 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

**Detachment Command Cost**

 

**Legion:** Black Legion

 

**+ Stratagems +**

 

**Council of Traitors [-1CP]**

 

**+ No Force Org Slot +**

 

**Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]:** Mark of Slaanesh


. **2x Dark Disciple:** 2x Close combat weapon

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Abaddon the Despoiler [11 PL, 2CP, 220pts]:** Warlord

 

**Dark Apostle [4 PL, 80pts]:** 5. Trusted War-leader, Blissful Devotion, Council of Traitors, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Slaanesh

 

**Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]:** Angelsbane, Arch-Sorcerer, Combi-bolter, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 120pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 19x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]:** No Chaos Mark


. **9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun:** 9x Autogun

. **Cultist Champion:** Autogun

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**Defiler [9 PL, 140pts]:** Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

 

**++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [63 PL, -4CP, 1,199pts] ++**

 

**+ Configuration +**

 

**Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]**

 

**Legion:** World Eaters

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Exalted Champion [5 PL, 83pts]:** Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne, Power sword

 

**Khârn the Betrayer [6 PL, 115pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [10 PL, 148pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **7x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Chainaxe, 7x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 94pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 94pts]**


. **Berzerker Champion:** Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

. **4x Chainsword and Chainaxe:** 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Chainaxe, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Terminators [16 PL, -2CP, 345pts]:** Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, Red Butchers


. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator:** Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. **Terminator Champion:** Chainfist, Combi-melta

. **Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon:** Lightning Claw, Reaper autocannon

. **Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon:** Lightning Claw, Reaper autocannon

 

**+ Flyer +**

 

**Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]:** Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne

 

**+ Dedicated Transport +**

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]:** Havoc launcher, Mark of Khorne

 

**++ Total: [106 PL, 9CP, 1,994pts] ++**

 

Created with [BattleScribe](https://www.battlescribe.net)

You need to cut out the line spacing, super hard to read your list.

1. Abaddon, whats he bringing to the list? 40 unscared cultists isn't worth it.
2. Why are we bothering putting 5++ on cultists with two models that cost more than the cultists?
3. Terminators... LC+combi-melta... nothing else, I wouldn't even bother with a chain fist. but maybe icon of wrath. Stay focused, you aren't winning long range shooting matches. And combat is secondary... 10 meltas... nothing important will live. (maybe these should be black legion?... maybe not)
4. Why Havoc launchers on rhinos? You are going to move 12, and advance d6 and pop smoke. After that... who cares what they do, actaully they fall back and stay on objectives until blown up.. either way havoc missile launchers are not worth the points.
5. I'd get rid of black legion entirely. You can keep the defiler, have 3 heldrakes, 4x 8 beserkers, 4 rhinos and the 2 HQs, And thats scarier to face against... you can't really pop 4 smoking rhinos, and 3 heldrakes keeps people busy until turn 2... everyone dumps out of rhino's, termies deepstrike... burn, kill, maim.

Otherwise... I pop 2 rhinos...whats your response? a heldrake and 10 terminators that don't reroll to hit rolls, and probably won't make the charge? Not bad, but not enough.

Or you make a list that revolves around abaddon+sorcerer
3 x 10 cultists
2 x 10 terminators (combi-meltas, combi-plasmas)
3 x 5 havocs
3 heldrakes

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You need to cut out the line spacing, super hard to read your list.

4. Why Havoc launchers on rhinos? You are going to move 12, and advance d6 and pop smoke. After that... who cares what they do, actaully they fall back and stay on objectives until blown up.. either way havoc missile launchers are not worth the points.

If they are going to hang back, the havoc launchers at least let them reach out and touch somebody from a distance. They are not that many points and can actually make those rhinos a bit of a nuissance.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You need to cut out the line spacing, super hard to read your list.

4. Why Havoc launchers on rhinos? You are going to move 12, and advance d6 and pop smoke. After that... who cares what they do, actaully they fall back and stay on objectives until blown up.. either way havoc missile launchers are not worth the points.

If they are going to hang back, the havoc launchers at least let them reach out and touch somebody from a distance. They are not that many points and can actually make those rhinos a bit of a nuissance.

The main purpose of a rhino is to get blown up but hopefully getting your troops further forward or delivered in better shape than they could without it. So investing points that we don't know for certain are extra points in something designed to be disposable is generally a poor investment. 1 Havoc Launcher at best is going to pop 1 x 2w space marine in a game if no cover, if there is cover you won't make your points back. I'd rather have 2 cultists or find another 13pts for a chaos spawn. But first you need to focus on the core goal of the list. In my game group, if I'm not focused on a central idea, it won't go very well.

Abaddon has this really good ability to reroll all hits... but we're not giving him anything worthwhile to reroll hits with. I think delightful agonies belongs on a 20man noise marine squad with Emperer's Children or in Red Corsairs army a 20 man chaos marine unit, that suddenly becomes incredibly durable and when it pops up on the other side of the board... very hard to remove. But protecting 10 cultists... is it worth it?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
But protecting 10 cultists... is it worth it?

If you are one of those 10 cultists.... then yes.

But my point was that a havoc launcher is not terrible if you have a few leftover points, especially if it is going to go on a rhino "hanging out in the back". It just lets it contribute a little more in the scenario you mentioned.

If it is going forward to carry troops and die, then I agree you should not put one on and keep it cheap.
If it is sitting in your backfield, I can see a use for it.

In your list, Abaddon has to be hurled into melee combat as soon as possible in order to be worth his points. There are too few stuff in your list for him to be worth his points from just buffing stuff with his aura.

Put warptime and delightful agonies on the sorceror. Cast both on Abaddon turn 2 and throw him into the teeth of the baddest unit your opponent has. Then have him stand there in the corpses of the enemies he has cut down and dare your opponent to shoot him dead. Thats literally the best way to play him in your list. Because he won't be worth his points if you just brought him only for the buffs.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
In your list, Abaddon has to be hurled into melee combat as soon as possible in order to be worth his points. There are too few stuff in your list for him to be worth his points from just buffing stuff with his aura.

Put warptime and delightful agonies on the sorceror. Cast both on Abaddon turn 2 and throw him into the teeth of the baddest unit your opponent has. Then have him stand there in the corpses of the enemies he has cut down and dare your opponent to shoot him dead. Thats literally the best way to play him in your list. Because he won't be worth his points if you just brought him only for the buffs.

There's not much to get out of Abaddon's buffs in this list.

Sure, everything in 12" ignores morale tests. But the reroll bubble only applies to Black Legion units. There's not a good reason to buff 40 Cultists, much better ways to use it. He's not going to be able to keep up with the Defiler unless he's deep struck, even that's just a single unit.

I'm looking at those Red Butchers and thinking they need to be pure melee.