Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Do I have the right math here?

30 boys against T5, 2+ save.

30x4=120 attacks (4 attacks on each of the 30 buys)
120x0,66=79,2 hits (WS 3+)
79,2*0,33=26,12 wound (S4 vs T5)
26,12*0,17=4.44 saves (AP- vs 3+ armour save with +1 to the save)

?

120*.66?

Niiai wrote:Do I have the right math here?

30 boys against T5, 2+ save.

30x4=120 attacks
120x0,66=79,2 hits
79,2*0,33=26,12 wound
26,12*0,17=4.44 saves

?

Pretty much right, yes.

jeff white wrote:120*.66?

Boyz hit on 3+

Your working is a bit off, due to the imprecision of multiplying by rounded decimals rather than fractions. But you're reaching the right result at the end.

The more accurate way of getting there would be:

30 * 4 = 120 attacks
120 * 2/3 = 80 hits
80 / 3 = 26.66 wounds (I'm expressing this as a rounded value here, but using the unrounded value in my actual calculation)
26.66 / 6 = 4.44 saves

Yeah. Well thank you.

My poor opponent rolled a bit under curve and did 3 wounds on my thunderwolves. I was not sure about the math during the game, I had not run the number. However, it apears, at least in what he brings, that he is not well equiped to bring high AP weapons. I also I had some terminators with stormshields and +1 on the save. It feels quite over powered to be honest.

Anyway. I once thought that a Leviathan gaunt and a Jormunghard gaunt had just the same saves. A leviathan has 6+ and then a 6+++ feel no pain. A Jormunghard gaunt has 5+. While they are close, the Jormunghard is stronger. Anyway, after I discovered that hole in my math skills I have been very causius about my probabilaty math.

 Niiai wrote:
Yeah. Well thank you.

My poor opponent rolled a bit under curve and did 3 wounds on my thunderwolves. I was not sure about the math during the game, I had not run the number. However, it apears, at least in what he brings, that he is not well equiped to bring high AP weapons. I also I had some terminators with stormshields and +1 on the save. It feels quite over powered to be honest.

Orks have a bit of trouble hurting marines right now. The only weapons a standard boyz squad can take that have AP are:
* A rokkit that hits on 5+ and can only be taken once per 10(?) boyz in the squad.
* A big choppa that can only be take on the squad leader (and does 1 damage iirc?)
* A power klaw that takes -1 to-hit, only does d3 damage, and can only be taken on the squad leader.

And the ork elites that do have decent AP are generally quite expensive. Things like...
* Nobz - squishy and expensive
* Meganobz - really expensive
* Tankbustas - squishy and expensive
* Flashgits - sort of squishy and pretty expensive

Basically, orks don't really have a lot of reliable high damage, good AP weapons, and the ones they do have are mostly expensive and die easily. In the past, they've fought space marines by making them fail armor saves against AP0 Damage 1 attacks. But now marines have to fail twice as many of those saves before they die, and getting a 2+ save is pretty easy (light cover and/or storm shields).

Yeah, or fail 3 times or 4 in the case of Terminators and TWC.

Big Choppas are D2, not D1.

But since they can only be taken by the Nob... Yeah, Orks struggle against 2+ models.

 Niiai wrote:
Yeah. Well thank you.

My poor opponent rolled a bit under curve and did 3 wounds on my thunderwolves. I was not sure about the math during the game, I had not run the number. However, it apears, at least in what he brings, that he is not well equiped to bring high AP weapons. I also I had some terminators with stormshields and +1 on the save. It feels quite over powered to be honest.

What you've discovered is one of the main problems with 40k's design. You rolled about 225 dice between you and managed to kill one model (or not even 1 in this case). No well-designed game should be doing that as it's just a waste of everyone's time.

Sadly there's not much practical advice to give here for Orks. They lack multi-damage weapons with good AP in their basic units and when units can take them (like with Nobz) they tend to get shot off the board fairly easily because they're such a threat.

Problem with counting attacks on 30 boyz is that only 10-15 will actually strike due to engagement range rules. So it's 40-60 attacks in real life, not the 120 they hold on paper.

That's also why Goffs greentides enhance boyz to the top levels. They get +1S, exploding 6s, and +1A, re-rolling 1s if they in Ghaz's range, and then those 40-60 attacks gains so much weight. If boyz really could deliver 100+ blows they wouldn't need Goffs buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Yeah. Well thank you.

My poor opponent rolled a bit under curve and did 3 wounds on my thunderwolves. I was not sure about the math during the game, I had not run the number. However, it apears, at least in what he brings, that he is not well equiped to bring high AP weapons. I also I had some terminators with stormshields and +1 on the save. It feels quite over powered to be honest.

Orks have a bit of trouble hurting marines right now. The only weapons a standard boyz squad can take that have AP are:
* A rokkit that hits on 5+ and can only be taken once per 10(?) boyz in the squad.
* A big choppa that can only be take on the squad leader (and does 1 damage iirc?)
* A power klaw that takes -1 to-hit, only does d3 damage, and can only be taken on the squad leader.

And the ork elites that do have decent AP are generally quite expensive. Things like...
* Nobz - squishy and expensive
* Meganobz - really expensive
* Tankbustas - squishy and expensive
* Flashgits - sort of squishy and pretty expensive

Basically, orks don't really have a lot of reliable high damage, good AP weapons, and the ones they do have are mostly expensive and die easily. In the past, they've fought space marines by making them fail armor saves against AP0 Damage 1 attacks. But now marines have to fail twice as many of those saves before they die, and getting a 2+ save is pretty easy (light cover and/or storm shields).

Against SM our best tools to kill them are:

Smasha Gunz
Shokkjump Dragtas
Megatrakk Scrapjets
Kustom Boosta Blastas
Meganobz
Bonebreaka/Battlewagon
Burna Bombers (with suicide stratagem)

Plus characters killyness. We suffer 3W models a lot as most of our effective stuff deals 2 damage, 2W models aren't really a problem.

Anyway best strategy against SM is to focus on scoring points. We can win games with a single dude standing, with orks it's pretty normal to end the game with just a handful of models alive.

Regarding the 30 boys attacking remark. We have found it quite possible to attack in 3 ranks

x x x
x x
x x x

If you pack them like that the last line are 1 inch within one who is one inch. Mind you these are the old models before they got a larger base.

 Niiai wrote:
Regarding the 30 boys attacking remark. We have found it quite possible to attack in 3 ranks

x x x
x x
x x x

If you pack them like that the last line are 1 inch within one who is one inch. Mind you these are the old models before they got a larger base.

This rule changed for 9th ed.

From the core rules:

...only the models in that unit that are within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, or that are within 1/2" of another model from their own unit that is itself within 1/2" of an enemy unit, can fight.

Yes. And the 3rd line is 1/2" of somebody that is within 1/2" of the enemy unit.