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I'm a huge fan of the Heresy-era World Eaters. Their color scheme is extremely cool, what with the white and the blue and the whole "constantly covered in other peoples' blood" thing. I also think they're the one of the only legions that still comes off as intimidating to this day. There's something off-putting about them being the Marines that other Marines don't like to hang out with that you don't get from, say, the Dark Angels or Night Lords. The modern World Eaters are cool and all, but in a more over-the-top way that doesn't tap into this sort of primal fear that you get from the pre-Khorne ones. So, just for fun, I want to make a Primaris army that has the pre-Heresy World Eaters playstyle and color scheme, while using the rules of one of the regular 9th edition chapters. I'm not exactly sure what this is called, maybe a "reverse counts-as?" Who knows.

The issue is that I'm not sure which of the current SM rulesets most suits the playstyle of the World Eaters the most. I'm obviously looking for a chapter which has rules that support a lot of melee combat and many, many assault intercessors, preferably with few tanks or termies and absolutely zero psykers. If possible, I would also like to use a chapter that would allow me to run the army in games with randos with minimal complaining, although I realize that might not be possible. The chapters I'm looking at using right now are the White Scars (probably a successor), Flesh Tearers, another Blood Angels Successor, or the Emperor's Spears. Anything else isn't suitably World Eater-ey. That being said, the problems arrive when I try and figure out which of these chapters I want to pick. Here are the pros and cons I've come up with for each:

White Scars
Pros: If I do a successor chapter, the white color scheme means there's less of a chance of people getting mad at me. The "severed head" arms on the upgrade sprue go great with the World Eaters.
Cons: I don't know much about the White Scars, but what I've seen of their melee rules hasn't impressed me as much as BAs have. A lot of bikers. I've also heard that successor chapters are terrible.

Flesh Tearers
Pros: Perfect rules for a fake World Eaters army. A couple of fun conversion opportunities. I haven't tried it out, but I think instead of painting them black, dunking the Death Company in a red wash would look extremely cool. I would love to convert Gabriel Seth.
Cons: There are lots of Blood Angels bits that don't fit at all with the aesthetic I'm going for. Flesh Tearers are also notable for not having white and blue power armor. Gabriel Seth is resin.

Blood Angels Successor
Pros: Perfect excuse for a non-red color scheme. Death Company are still cool.
Cons: Options for BA successor chapters are just worse than Flesh Tearers for what I'm going for. Lots of psykers (ew).

Emperor's Spears
Pros: Color scheme is somewhat close to pre-Heresy World Eaters.
Cons: I've heard their rules are subpar. They're also Ultramarines successors.

Does anyone have any advice on which of these chapters I should choose? I'm know full well that this idea is somewhat strange, but I've come more and more dead-set on it over time. It just seems like it would be extremely fun. I'm open to just about every suggestion in the book.

TL;DR: Which SM chapter's rules is closest to the way the World Eaters operated before the HH?

I'm curious what you aren't impressed about with White Scars. The advance, fallback and charge is great and has been a pain to be on the receiving end of. And the additional damage when under assault doctrines is pretty fantastic on even chainswords let alone relic weapons and such. And they do fine with infantry as well as bikes, possibly liking infantry even more.

Also, some gladiatorial marines to count as bladeguard would be pretty kickarse.

cody.d. wrote:
I'm curious what you aren't impressed about with White Scars. The advance, fallback and charge is great and has been a pain to be on the receiving end of. And the additional damage when under assault doctrines is pretty fantastic on even chainswords let alone relic weapons and such. And they do fine with infantry as well as bikes, possibly liking infantry even more.

Also, some gladiatorial marines to count as bladeguard would be pretty kickarse.

From what I've seen the White Scars melee is powerful, but focuses more on hitting hard once than hitting normally a bunch of times. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but I'm not sure if it's my ideal flavor. Also, as I mentioned, their successor relics seem pretty lame. On the other hand, though, those severed heads on the upgrade sprue...

White scars are really good right now, especially with their damage books. I'd definitely go with them. Great with Assault intersessors and bladeguard.

Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

Hecaton wrote:
Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

Its been happening since 5th? 6th? edition? Maybe 4th. Chaos Wolfs and Khorne Angels (or Night Angels) in particular have been a thing for a long, long time now.

Too many chaos books have been 'like marines, but bad' and on a regular basis people get tired of shooting themselves in the foot to play the army they've got.
People grumble about making 'eldar counts as marines' armies much the same way, though I've never actually seen one out in the world.

Black Templars might be a good fit, melee oriented and no psykers.

Aash wrote:
Black Templars might be a good fit, melee oriented and no psykers.

I didn't think about Black Templars until now, honestly. Abhor the Witch would be pretty nice to have, and their melee isn't too bad either, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about taking Chaplains yet. It seems a bit off, but I can't put my finger on why. It's an interesting option, though, to be sure.


Also, to clarify concerning some previous discussion in the thread: I'm not a huge fan of Marines' power level when compared to CSM, but that's not why I want to go this direction with the World Eaters. I own a regular CSM army; if I was concerned about power level, there are much worse things on my platter already. The real reason I want to go SM on this one is because of the sculpts and the options. The old WE color scheme seems like it would rock on an Intercessor, and I'm not a huge fan of the red and the brass and the Khorne and the daemon engines and such. I have nothing against the modern World Eaters (Both of Kharn's sculpts are masterpieces), but when taking a look their Great Crusade versions, they just don't compare IMO.

Hecaton wrote:
Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

I'm doing something similar. My Alpha Legion use Raven Guard rules and primaris models because they just seemed like a better fit for the way I picture AL playing. That, and I wanted their cultists to feel relatively well-trained and well-equipped. Having access to guard, skitarii, assassins, etc. gives me a lot more flavor and variety than simply spamming the cultist datasheet would.

I think the Flesh Tearers rules are perfect for what you want to do.
Plus, they're just rules. You don't actually need to paint your miniatures red and black to use their rules (unless your opponent is a tool). Nor do you have to use Seth's actual model, model your Not-World Eaters Chapter Master with a giant chainsword of his own, job done.

Plus Flesh Tearers basically are 'modern' World Eaters. Nassir Amit was good buddies with Kharne, and the two were perfectly matched in a dual, both taking the fighting style of just beating the gak out of the other with little heed to their own defence.

Wyldhunt wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

I'm doing something similar. My Alpha Legion use Raven Guard rules and primaris models because they just seemed like a better fit for the way I picture AL playing. That, and I wanted their cultists to feel relatively well-trained and well-equipped. Having access to guard, skitarii, assassins, etc. gives me a lot more flavor and variety than simply spamming the cultist datasheet would.

40k is just an utter failure of a game, wow. If it weren't for its market cap it would be rightfully consigned to the dustbin.

Hecaton wrote:
40k is just an utter failure of a game, wow. If it weren't for its market cap it would be rightfully consigned to the dustbin.

Show me on this doll where the Marine touched you.
Nobody in this thread cares about your off topic opinion, so feel free to keep it to yourself or start a new discussion about it if you must. How about that?

@OP
I love the color scheme and collect a Primaris force as well. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/782247.page
I'm using Blood Angel rules as I prefer the focus on Jump Pack units and the special guys like DC and SG are easily converted with Primaris bodies. If you don't like the BA iconography, have a look at the Black Templar upgrade kit.

a_typical_hero wrote:

I love the color scheme and collect a Primaris force as well. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/782247.page
I'm using Blood Angel rules as I prefer the focus on Jump Pack units and the special guys like DC and SG are easily converted with Primaris bodies. If you don't like the BA iconography, have a look at the Black Templar upgrade kit.

That's amazing! Your scheme looks almost exactly like what I've imagined for mine (although I'll likely go for a duller blue and a lot more blood ). Other than the sword, what did you do with the Templar kit? I was looking through the kits earlier, and honestly I wasn't quite sure what I would do with it compared to the BA or WS ones.

Thank you!

- I use the more knightly helmets for squad leaders
- The shoulder pads fit for Intercessors and similar kits. I only use one on the left shoulder, so a kit is enough for 10 Marines.
- All the little decals like puritiy seals, pistol holders with a cross on it, Holy Hand grenades™ and so on go everywhere to give all Marines a more gothic feel. Decorate their Bolters, legs, Outrider bikes, ...
- Other melee weapons from the kit fit without trouble as well.

It's only a shame that Bolters, Terminator and vehicle stuff does not fit for Primaris.

Gotta say Flesh Tearers in terms of lore, look and rules/playstyle. I guess the current colour scheme doesn’t match your pre-Heresy aesthetic, but I think you just paint them the way you want and explain the theme. I can’t see too many folks having an issue with it.

Space Woves.

You can use Fenrisan wolves as flesh hounds

You can use thunder wolf cav as Juggernauts

You can use lone wolves as frenzied berzerkers

You can use Santa Grimnar as a Terminator Lord being pulled on a chaos chariot pulled by juggernauts.

Hecaton wrote:
Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

And what's wrong with someone wanting their army to be mildly functional?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
Love this. You like World Eaters, but loyalist Astartes rules are so good you can't just play the faction.

And what's wrong with someone wanting their army to be mildly functional?

Basically this. Plus, no disrespect to Flipsiders, but it doesn't matter to me at all.

If I were playing a game against Flipsiders against his space marines with space marines rules, the fact that to him they're world eaters simply... Doesn't matter.

As described, he's planning a primaris army with currently available rules, just painted with the old WE scheme. That affects my enjoyment of the games about as much as the Hubble telescope.

Aren't there like two or three primaris chapters that are white armour with blue shoulder pads?
That is practicaly old WE colours, only without the specific helmets.

Honestly if someone is annoyed because you are using white scars chapter tactics as a successor and completely allowed to do so with the rule set - you need to be pulling them for not painting their models to the exact standard of the box art ‘ codex down to the base being different. People like that hate receiving what they dish out.

Other than that, just go nuts. Make something unique and call it whatever you like. Run them as whatever successor you like, that’s one of the redeeming features of Space Marines. Don’t get me wrong, avoid proxying models (eg, avoid using Blood Angel models as their non-BA equivalents) but other than that build the army as you like. It’s easy to justify....

Blood Angels successor - they dropped the red armour and blood iconography to represent the fall of their primarch with the intention of regaining both through the blood of their enemies.

Dark Angels successor - they donned the white armour following a thousands years of purification, re-devoting he selves to the emperor with their chapter symbol represented some kind of crusade of redemption.

White Scars successor - they kept the white armour because it was spiffy but didn’t keep the whole Mongolian empire theme as it got a bit smelly inside the power armour.

Space Wolves successor - they are a group that split from the main chapter for ethical reasons as fur is murder. They also don’t eat meat, prefer hemp undergarments and upon conquering a new territory like to pee on anything vertical.

All 4 could easily have the same colour scheme, iconography and be passed off as all 4 different chapters / variants of space marines.

Yeah, successor chapters are weird. There was a weird moment in one codex where they explain that no, really, White Templars are an Ultramarines successor rather than a Black Templar (Imperial Fist) successor. Because reasons. At that point it really becomes a shrug of 'whatever.'

Plus, go back to the older stuff and the standard chapters had a variety of paint schemes: camo, specific environments (Desert, ice), and even campaign specific or _role_ specific colors. The old Warhammer 40,000 Compendium (a collection of WD articles) had a double page spread of variants:

Marines Errant were shown as halved White/Blue, but also had a 'Second Outer Galactic Expeditionary Force in a como white and green pattern,

Howling Griffons had a yellow/orange camo for the Sigmar VI Insurgency Force,

Raptor Legion had a Blizzard Suit variant,

Sons of Medusa a Desert World pattern in yellow with black lightning dags,

Space Sharks had a 'camo variation' that was yellow with black briars.

Salamanders in this picture didn't have a variant, their original colors were black and yellow.
---

The idea that there is a 'one true paint scheme' is just nuts, even for the First Founding chapters (once that concept even existed... and retconned Ultramarines into being one)


https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marines_Camouflage_Schemes
----
OP: worth scrolling down in the link, as they show off a Codex Pattern variant for Flesh Eaters, for Sulphur oxide deserts. Yellow, brown and black, quite the departure from the dark red and black, and other tanks in various camo variants.

 Flipsiders wrote:
Flesh Tearers
Pros: Perfect rules for a fake World Eaters army. A couple of fun conversion opportunities. I haven't tried it out, but I think instead of painting them black, dunking the Death Company in a red wash would look extremely cool. I would love to convert Gabriel Seth.
Cons: There are lots of Blood Angels bits that don't fit at all with the aesthetic I'm going for. Flesh Tearers are also notable for not having white and blue power armor. Gabriel Seth is resin.

I like the idea of a "mirror universe" World Eaters using the Flesh Tearers rules. Plays into the pre-Angron World Eaters who were still brutal, but not butchers nails insane.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Space Woves.

You can use Fenrisan wolves as flesh hounds

You can use thunder wolf cav as Juggernauts

You can use lone wolves as frenzied berzerkers

You can use Santa Grimnar as a Terminator Lord being pulled on a chaos chariot pulled by juggernauts.

He was specifying Heresy era/ pre-Khorne WE. Still, SW could work if you replace the wolfy bitz for skulls or somesuch or nothing at all. Get a bunch of Blood Claws/ Assault Intercessors, put them in a bunch of Razorbacks/ Rhino's/Primaris Rhino I forgot the name of and get a Biker Chaplain/ Biker Captain/ JP "Wolf Lord" with Saga of the Hunter. Run up the board T1, disembark T2, advance + charge and start chopping. SW also have a stratagem to put a unit in assault doctrine pre-T3 and I think also some anti-psyker stuff. I don't think this is the most competitive setup ever but it gives a good "loyalist World Eater" impression IMO.

He was specifying Heresy era/ pre-Khorne WE.

Ah, my bad.

Black Templars then.