Questions about the sects of Commorragh.

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**Grand Master Telemakhos**

Hi.

As the title says, I have some 'simple' questions regarding the solar and lunar sects of Commorragh mentioned in the 8ed codex.

1) Are these sects the same as 'cults' or Kabals?

2) If the 'solar sect' is the one that controls the stolen suns, what does the lunar sect do?

3) Are there any books or complementary material that goes into more detail about these sects and/or Commorragh before Vect's rise into power?

Thanks beforehand.

**Tiennos**

Grand Master Telemakhos wrote:

3) Are there any books or complementary material that goes into more detail about these sects and/or Commorragh before Vect's rise into power?

I don't know if there are any books set in that time period, Vect has been in charge for a really long time, like M32 or something like that...

Something I remember being mentioned in some of the Dark Eldar books is that apparently Commorragh used to be aristocratic, with noble houses ruling over the rest. Vect himself used to be a slave, led a rebellion that destroyed that system and replaced it with the "meritocracy-via-murder" system of the Cabals. There was a character in Path of the Renegade who was old enough to remember the Fall and when the nobles ruled the city. He had converted his own house into a cabal to survive but wished he could get rid of Vect and go back to the old ways.

That's about all I got.

**morganfreeman**

The last time I read DE lore was in 5th edition, so this may be outdated but:

Commorragh was very much "business as usual" post fall. Noble houses were the power and called the shots (think GoT but in one mega-city and without a 'king' figure), excess was the name of the game, ect. Gradually they gained a handle on what had "changed" with Slaanesh slowly draining their soul, but it wasn't really a problem due to how they lived.

Vect was a slave and, somehow, earned his freedom and established his own group. His Kabal. No one took it seriously until it was too late, and his Kabal was soon almost as powerful as the various Noble houses. He orchestrated a psuedo coup via bringing an important Imperial vessel with survivors & the tracker still intact, which resulted in a large Imperial force (most of the Salamander's chapter, a bunch of IG, and I believe the Spacewolves) invading the Dark City itself.

In the ensuing confusion, every faction (read: noble house) was trying to get a piece of the prize and drive the invaders back. Vect orchestrated the "accidental" deaths of the most powerful heads of the noble houses through various means. This set him up to look like the "savior of the city" once the Imperial forces were defeated (and withdrew with what they'd came for), as well as left a gigantic power vacuum as the most powerful houses were left leaderless and reeling.

Vect stepped in to fill the power vacuum, cementing his Kabal as the most powerful organization in Cammorragh and making him power influential and powerful than any noble-house had ever been. Recruits flocked to his banner, looking to abandon the "power by birth" system of the nobility and instead participate in Vect's "meritocracy via murder" setup.

The surviving and severely weakened noble houses reinvented themselves as Kabals, giving them the ability to recruit from the masses via the same opportunity structure as Vect's organization. They still had some noble trappings (true-born were generally better equipped, many leaders "just happened" to be nobles), but over the centuries they became more and more like Kabals.

Some powerful nobles still exist and run Kabals, but they'd sorely like to off Vect and return to the way things were; where power was decided by birth, and any lowly street-scamp with an ungodly amount of Just-As-Planned couldn't potentially usurp them.

**PenitentJake**

There are also a lot of intrigues between subfactions. Wych cults keep people's pain meters topped up and provide spectacle that makes the population easier to manage and Covens provide for the cloning/ augmentation/ medical needs of the society.

Meaning that Kabals- though thought of as the prime movers of Commorragh, really need to secure alliances in order to thrive.

**Imateria**

morganfreeman wrote:
The last time I read DE lore was in 5th edition, so this may be outdated but:

Commorragh was very much "business as usual" post fall. Noble houses were the power and called the shots (think GoT but in one mega-city and without a 'king' figure), excess was the name of the game, ect. Gradually they gained a handle on what had "changed" with Slaanesh slowly draining their soul, but it wasn't really a problem due to how they lived.

Vect was a slave and, somehow, earned his freedom and established his own group. His Kabal. No one took it seriously until it was too late, and his Kabal was soon almost as powerful as the various Noble houses. He orchestrated a psuedo coup via bringing an important Imperial vessel with survivors & the tracker still intact, which resulted in a large Imperial force (most of the Salamander's chapter, a bunch of IG, and I believe the Spacewolves) invading the Dark City itself.

In the ensuing confusion, every faction (read: noble house) was trying to get a piece of the prize and drive the invaders back. Vect orchestrated the "accidental" deaths of the most powerful heads of the noble houses through various means. This set him up to look like the "savior of the city" once the Imperial forces were defeated (and withdrew with what they'd came for), as well as left a gigantic power vacuum as the most powerful houses were left leaderless and reeling.

I have no idea what the Lunar Sect is, can't say I've heard of them but havent gone through the lore in a while either.

All the information is found either in the codexes or spread out in seemingly throw away lines in the Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy.

Vect stepped in to fill the power vacuum, cementing his Kabal as the most powerful organization in Cammorragh and making him power influential and powerful than any noble-house had ever been. Recruits flocked to his banner, looking to abandon the "power by birth" system of the nobility and instead participate in Vect's "meritocracy via murder" setup.

The surviving and severely weakened noble houses reinvented themselves as Kabals, giving them the ability to recruit from the masses via the same opportunity structure as Vect's organization. They still had some noble trappings (true-born were generally better equipped, many leaders "just happened" to be nobles), but over the centuries they became more and more like Kabals.

Some powerful nobles still exist and run Kabals, but they'd sorely like to off Vect and return to the way things were; where power was decided by birth, and any lowly street-scamp with an ungodly amount of Just-As-Planned couldn't potentially usurp them.

Whilst all of this is cannon, it has nothing to do with the Solar Cults. There's very little information on them other than they were a powerful Cult that grew out of the groups that orginally captured the suns and controlled the energy syphoning that powered Commorragh (and likely what gave them the power to grow into such a powerful Cult in the first place). What we do know is that they made a power grab to overthrow the 3 leading Noble houses before they were strong enough to do so and that Vect's flegling Kabal of the Black Heart successfully fought along side the noble houses to defeat them. It serves more as an indication that Vect is not just a freed slave with a gang but is on the scene as a true growing power.

**morganfreeman**

Imateria wrote:
morganfreeman wrote:
The last time I read DE lore was in 5th edition, so this may be outdated but:

Commorragh was very much "business as usual" post fall. Noble houses were the power and called the shots (think GoT but in one mega-city and without a 'king' figure), excess was the name of the game, ect. Gradually they gained a handle on what had "changed" with Slaanesh slowly draining their soul, but it wasn't really a problem due to how they lived.

Vect was a slave and, somehow, earned his freedom and established his own group. His Kabal. No one took it seriously until it was too late, and his Kabal was soon almost as powerful as the various Noble houses. He orchestrated a psuedo coup via bringing an important Imperial vessel with survivors & the tracker still intact, which resulted in a large Imperial force (most of the Salamander's chapter, a bunch of IG, and I believe the Spacewolves) invading the Dark City itself.

In the ensuing confusion, every faction (read: noble house) was trying to get a piece of the prize and drive the invaders back. Vect orchestrated the "accidental" deaths of the most powerful heads of the noble houses through various means. This set him up to look like the "savior of the city" once the Imperial forces were defeated (and withdrew with what they'd came for), as well as left a gigantic power vacuum as the most powerful houses were left leaderless and reeling.

I have no idea what the Lunar Sect is, can't say I've heard of them but havent gone through the lore in a while either.

All the information is found either in the codexes or spread out in seemingly throw away lines in the Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy.

Vect stepped in to fill the power vacuum, cementing his Kabal as the most powerful organization in Cammorragh and making him power influential and powerful than any noble-house had ever been. Recruits flocked to his banner, looking to abandon the "power by birth" system of the nobility and instead participate in Vect's "meritocracy via murder" setup.

The surviving and severely weakened noble houses reinvented themselves as Kabals, giving them the ability to recruit from the masses via the same opportunity structure as Vect's organization. They still had some noble trappings (true-born were generally better equipped, many leaders "just happened" to be nobles), but over the centuries they became more and more like Kabals.

Some powerful nobles still exist and run Kabals, but they'd sorely like to off Vect and return to the way things were; where power was decided by birth, and any lowly street-scamp with an ungodly amount of Just-As-Planned couldn't potentially usurp them.

Whilst all of this is cannon, it has nothing to do with the Solar Cults. There's very little information on them other than they were a powerful Cult that grew out of the groups that orginally captured the suns and controlled the energy syphoning that powered Commorragh (and likely what gave them the power to grow into such a powerful Cult in the first place). What we do know is that they made a power grab to overthrow the 3 leading Noble houses before they were strong enough to do so and that Vect's flegling Kabal of the Black Heart successfully fought along side the noble houses to defeat them. It serves more as an indication that Vect is not just a freed slave with a gang but is on the scene as a true growing power.

My bad. I thought there was a DE thread about why kabals were a thing and what happened to nobility. I might've gotten my wires crossed.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

The solar sects are best explored in Path of the Archon, the third of the Dark Eldar path books. Without revealing too much about the plot, daemons invade commaragh and some noble houses and the mandrakes uses this as an excuse to become rebellious.

Vect has a secret weapon. In a prison at the bottom of commaragh hes keeping the old heads of the solar cult, who know the secrets of how to control the dark stars which sit above commaragh. He uses these secrets to connect a certain subrealm to the same subrealm the star is in, then making the star send solar flairs down to destroy that subrealm in its entirety.

So while it doesn't exactly answer your question, the solar cults down control the stars anymore. Vect does. They had the power to do what Vect did, but never had the doughballs to use it, Vect had no such reservations, which is why he won. Solar cults are illegle now and have no outward power, because the secrets of the sun's, and how to control them, rest with Vect and his prisoners.