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2021/05/21 10:20:25
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Hello everyone! Pablo here from Chapter Tactics. Bryan is spot on about the podcast being on hiatus. I suspect it will be back in some form, given the fact that so many people loved listening! As of right now I don't know what the form may look like, but when there is more clarity I am sure there will be some sort of official announcement made.
Also, because I think this needs to be said as well. Frontline Gaming is a company that values their privacy and as a respect to that, I won't be speaking about any details of the situation. I worked for FLG for over 5 years, and have nothing but love and support for the brand, and the people who stand behind it. I think it's important that we as a community continue to support FLG and their vision for Warhammer.
Prior post from Reece & Frankie on the FLG website
Spoiler:
After last week’s podcast, a number of you have been in touch to ask us what happened with Pablo “The Rhino” Martinez and why he’s no longer working here at Frontline Gaming.
It saddens us to say that after years of working as part of our close knit team, Pablo behaved in a manner not in keeping with our values. While none of our customers were affected by Pablo’s actions, his breach of our trust left us with no alternative but to dismiss him. His actions were such that this was the safest way to limit the damage to our company and to continue to protect our customers.
Normally, we wouldn’t be writing about this sort of thing, it’s a messy business and not our usual brand of tabletop fun. But we care a lot about this community, and with Pablo reaching out to some of you, we felt a responsibility to make it clear he was now acting on his own behalf and was in no way affiliated with Frontline Gaming.
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
We’ve got a tough couple of months ahead as we continue to unpack this breach of trust, and recover from what’s been an emotional event for both of us. So we wont be saying any more on the matter, and will instead be focusing on continuing to deliver great products, service, and community support.
As ever, we appreciate you. Thanks for your support.
Stay safe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/21 10:33:22
2021/05/21 10:30:41
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
This sounds similar how a few politicians acted befor being kicked out of their main party. Big boss calls them the worse of the worse, they thank him and try to be consiliatory, and then get kicked out of the party a few weeks later.
Not the same, be the end effect seems to be the same.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/21 11:29:32
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
vict0988 wrote: Pablo Martinez (Facebook Competitive 40k group)
Hello everyone! Pablo here from Chapter Tactics. Bryan is spot on about the podcast being on hiatus. I suspect it will be back in some form, given the fact that so many people loved listening! As of right now I don't know what the form may look like, but when there is more clarity I am sure there will be some sort of official announcement made.
Also, because I think this needs to be said as well. Frontline Gaming is a company that values their privacy and as a respect to that, I won't be speaking about any details of the situation. I worked for FLG for over 5 years, and have nothing but love and support for the brand, and the people who stand behind it. I think it's important that we as a community continue to support FLG and their vision for Warhammer.
Prior post from Reece & Frankie on the FLG website
Spoiler:
After last week’s podcast, a number of you have been in touch to ask us what happened with Pablo “The Rhino” Martinez and why he’s no longer working here at Frontline Gaming.
It saddens us to say that after years of working as part of our close knit team, Pablo behaved in a manner not in keeping with our values. While none of our customers were affected by Pablo’s actions, his breach of our trust left us with no alternative but to dismiss him. His actions were such that this was the safest way to limit the damage to our company and to continue to protect our customers.
Normally, we wouldn’t be writing about this sort of thing, it’s a messy business and not our usual brand of tabletop fun. But we care a lot about this community, and with Pablo reaching out to some of you, we felt a responsibility to make it clear he was now acting on his own behalf and was in no way affiliated with Frontline Gaming.
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
We’ve got a tough couple of months ahead as we continue to unpack this breach of trust, and recover from what’s been an emotional event for both of us. So we wont be saying any more on the matter, and will instead be focusing on continuing to deliver great products, service, and community support.
As ever, we appreciate you. Thanks for your support.
Stay safe.
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
Pablo didn't say anything either, normally means yeah he did something but this doesn't read crazy bad as he still saying support them and is still active in the community. Feels more like he did something minor and was either caught or said something to piss someone off, but time will tell.
Over all its stupid letters like this that creates needless drama, FLG should have just said he is no longer working with them and left it at that.
2021/05/21 12:33:39
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Pablo might've agreed to keep quiet and not bring the whole ship down with him (somehow) on the terms that what exactly happened is kept hush-hush. I'm just speculating of course.
2021/05/21 12:34:39
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
yeah, my take on this is Pablo is being respectful toward FLG as he probably is glad that they didn't provide details of said incident(s). If he had a more combative approach, I feel FLG might have leaked more details. Either way, it's not exactly major news.
2021/05/21 13:09:14
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Honestly Pablo not clarifying doesn't really make him look like the martyred saint some seem to be trying to make him out to be. He has the ability to clear up any misunderstandings and come out of it smelling like roses, but instead he basically pushes blame on FLG for not talking about it instead.
To me this reads more like the kind of thing someone does when they want the skeletons to stay in the closet.
2021/05/21 13:09:20
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
vict0988 wrote: No need to do a lot more speculating, that's what ended the other thread, I was just looking to update people.
That's fair. I'm just saying both sides don't look especially good coming out of this This is the internet though, so it's more than likely the truth will come out eventually.
2021/05/21 13:38:58
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
ClockworkZion wrote: Honestly Pablo not clarifying doesn't really make him look like the martyred saint some seem to be trying to make him out to be. He has the ability to clear up any misunderstandings and come out of it smelling like roses, but instead he basically pushes blame on FLG for not talking about it instead.
To me this reads more like the kind of thing someone does when they want the skeletons to stay in the closet.
If he says even a word against his old company, he is never going to get a job in the industry, no matter if he was or wasn't at fault. The very idea that he could think that attacking the employer, would make him unemployable. Or at least that is how it works here.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/21 13:42:01
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
ClockworkZion wrote: Honestly Pablo not clarifying doesn't really make him look like the martyred saint some seem to be trying to make him out to be. He has the ability to clear up any misunderstandings and come out of it smelling like roses, but instead he basically pushes blame on FLG for not talking about it instead.
To me this reads more like the kind of thing someone does when they want the skeletons to stay in the closet.
If he says even a word against his old company, he is never going to get a job in the industry, no matter if he was or wasn't at fault. The very idea that he could think that attacking the employer, would make him unemployable. Or at least that is how it works here.
Self employment in this niche industry is far more common when doing stuff like podcasts. His statement even says his podcast will return, and he's got a network of people who he can bring on that aren't tied to FLG.
2021/05/21 13:52:02
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Will Abaddon finally tell Cadia he loves her? Can Cadia forgive him for the abusive relationship?
Will Lion figure out that the Cypher he is dating is really the evil twin?
Will Khorne bail out Slaanesh for their public indecency charges?
2021/05/21 13:54:50
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
I have no idea how it works in the US, but here if a freelancer got in to conflict with a company, then all companies would gang up on him, just to make sure that all the other employees don't get any ideas of their own. Which can range from becoming unable to find employment and reputation destruction, to more physical things involving "unknown suspects".
In sports it is even worse, because of the beting and all the money involved.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/21 14:13:39
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
ClockworkZion wrote: Honestly Pablo not clarifying doesn't really make him look like the martyred saint some seem to be trying to make him out to be. He has the ability to clear up any misunderstandings and come out of it smelling like roses, but instead he basically pushes blame on FLG for not talking about it instead.
To me this reads more like the kind of thing someone does when they want the skeletons to stay in the closet.
If he says even a word against his old company, he is never going to get a job in the industry, no matter if he was or wasn't at fault. The very idea that he could think that attacking the employer, would make him unemployable. Or at least that is how it works here.
If you have actual skills...why would you work for anyone? Today working for yourself is so easy and far from ruining his career it has made him infamous - never heard of him until now. I wish him well. We can only speculate as to what happened but these days...simply saying something nice about someone your boss doesn't like can get you fired. Hell be better for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 14:17:13
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2021/05/21 14:14:34
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Karol wrote: I have no idea how it works in the US, but here if a freelancer got in to conflict with a company, then all companies would gang up on him, just to make sure that all the other employees don't get any ideas of their own. Which can range from becoming unable to find employment and reputation destruction, to more physical things involving "unknown suspects".
In sports it is even worse, because of the beting and all the money involved.
That only really works for companies networking together or contracted out by 1 mega corp. For 40k example he can Youtube, FB, Reddit, Dakka to advertise and I bet many players and other channels would be greatful to talk to him, there is no fear of the community shying away from him unless real information comes out instead of bad mouth words.
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
I don't agree. That statement is meant to protect FLG from anything that happens now that they have parted company with Pablo. This tells potential customers they are not accepting any liability but the decision to do any business with Pablo is yours. There doesn't need to be any context. it's a "cya" statement by FLG.
Also, with him being on an associated podcast there could be confusion until that content is sorted out, either kept, removed or altered.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 14:23:43
2021/05/21 14:22:11
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
I don't agree. That statement is meant to protect FLG from anything that happens now that they have parted company with Pablo. This tells potential customers they are not accepting any liability but the decision to do any business with Pablo is yours. There doesn't need to be any context. it's a "cya" statement by FLG.
They said
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This is not them protecting themselves, just saying "He no longer works for us" does that just fine, this is them saying "Hey he did something to us so be careful b.c he might do it again"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 14:22:53
2021/05/21 14:28:45
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
I don't agree. That statement is meant to protect FLG from anything that happens now that they have parted company with Pablo. This tells potential customers they are not accepting any liability but the decision to do any business with Pablo is yours. There doesn't need to be any context. it's a "cya" statement by FLG.
They said
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This is not them protecting themselves, just saying "He no longer works for us" does that just fine, this is them saying "Hey he did something to us so be careful b.c he might do it again"
for all we know they had legal advice on the phrasing of that statement to protect them selves. It just sounds like they want people to know they cannot be held responsible if something happens.
It is in fact at your own risk.
I'm not speculating one way or the other about Pablo or FLG, never head of him until this thread and don't care for them because I dislike ITC anything, if you are championing Pablo that fine.
I'm just commenting on the statement. I don't think it's as attack just a cya on their part given the number of years they were associated together.
2021/05/21 15:37:51
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Well, I'll miss the guests on chapter tactics, so I hope the podcast comes back -- but hopefully Pablo lets someone else be the "host".
His podcast skills are pretty meh, and I'm only comparing to the standard of other amateur "gaming" podcasts here. I've never heard someone stammer on for 10-15 seconds chasing a not funny joke or non sequitur so often. Constantly hitting the "skip 15 seconds" button to get to the guests speaking.
2021/05/21 15:44:15
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Chapter Tactics podcast seems pointless if he's not genuinely interested in (competitive) 40K. It was already as much a Magic the Gathering podcast as a 40K one at times even while "competitive 40K" was still his job and the podcast existed in no small part to shill FLG stuff every couple of minutes.
2021/05/21 15:51:45
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
I don't agree. That statement is meant to protect FLG from anything that happens now that they have parted company with Pablo. This tells potential customers they are not accepting any liability but the decision to do any business with Pablo is yours. There doesn't need to be any context. it's a "cya" statement by FLG.
They said
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This is not them protecting themselves, just saying "He no longer works for us" does that just fine, this is them saying "Hey he did something to us so be careful b.c he might do it again"
for all we know they had legal advice on the phrasing of that statement to protect them selves. It just sounds like they want people to know they cannot be held responsible if something happens. It is in fact at your own risk. I'm not speculating one way or the other about Pablo or FLG, never head of him until this thread and don't care for them because I dislike ITC anything, if you are championing Pablo that fine. I'm just commenting on the statement. I don't think it's as attack just a cya on their part given the number of years they were associated together.
Thats not how legal advise works.....
Im not speculating either, just saying them telling me to watch my back is messed up from a business stand point and it wont have an effect on other platforms stopping Pablo if he does his own thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quasistellar wrote: Well, I'll miss the guests on chapter tactics, so I hope the podcast comes back -- but hopefully Pablo lets someone else be the "host".
His podcast skills are pretty meh, and I'm only comparing to the standard of other amateur "gaming" podcasts here. I've never heard someone stammer on for 10-15 seconds chasing a not funny joke or non sequitur so often. Constantly hitting the "skip 15 seconds" button to get to the guests speaking.
Yeah I listen to it off and on, and I never was pulled into any episode, bantering is one thing, but it was some banter, with getting off topic time to time, sometimes don't go into enough details and moves on too quickly, so an idea is being talked about but then it moves to another idea when it was just getting good. It seems like there was always something stopping me from really enjoying it. Yeah there was some good ones, but most often than not it was just background noise for me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/21 20:52:41
2021/05/21 17:15:35
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This part is terrible, how can FLG even say this without telling us what he did? How are we supposed to trust them blindly? Just aweful thing to say with NO CONTEXT, its like me saying "Hey guys don't trust Reece b.c I said so"
I don't agree. That statement is meant to protect FLG from anything that happens now that they have parted company with Pablo. This tells potential customers they are not accepting any liability but the decision to do any business with Pablo is yours. There doesn't need to be any context. it's a "cya" statement by FLG.
They said
We wanted to warn you that any goods or services he offers up in the future, are independent from us and undertaken at your own risk.
This is not them protecting themselves, just saying "He no longer works for us" does that just fine, this is them saying "Hey he did something to us so be careful b.c he might do it again"
for all we know they had legal advice on the phrasing of that statement to protect them selves. It just sounds like they want people to know they cannot be held responsible if something happens.
It is in fact at your own risk.
I'm not speculating one way or the other about Pablo or FLG, never head of him until this thread and don't care for them because I dislike ITC anything, if you are championing Pablo that fine.
I'm just commenting on the statement. I don't think it's as attack just a cya on their part given the number of years they were associated together.
Thats not how legal advise works.....
Im not speculating either, just saying them telling me to watch my back is messed up from a business stand point and it wont have an effect on other platforms stopping Pablo if he does his own thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quasistellar wrote: Well, I'll miss the guests on chapter tactics, so I hope the podcast comes back -- but hopefully Pablo lets someone else be the "host".
His podcast skills are pretty meh, and I'm only comparing to the standard of other amateur "gaming" podcasts here. I've never heard someone stammer on for 10-15 seconds chasing a not funny joke or non sequitur so often. Constantly hitting the "skip 15 seconds" button to get to the guests speaking.
Yeah I listen to it off and on, and I never was pulled into any episode, bantering is one thing, but it was some banter, with getting off topic time to time, sometimes don't go into enough details and moves on too quickly, so an idea is being talked about but hten it moves to another idea when it was just getting good. It seems like there was always something stopping me from really enjoying it. Yeah there was some good ones, but most often than not it was just background noise for me.
Yeah, it's funny that Pablo was the one who stammered incoherently for so long, but he's also the one who would say "ok we've covered that let's move on". Just weird.
2021/05/21 21:54:41
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Dai wrote: People who have taken a "side" on this are such gossiping fishwives. Either or both could be in the wrong but who bloody cares.
The sides don't matter.. Watching how these people actually do business, when they're self appointed reps & 'voices' for the
warhammer tournament scene, that's pretty useful information to know. At least for the U.S.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 21:55:38
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/05/22 07:25:03
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Dai wrote: People who have taken a "side" on this are such gossiping fishwives. Either or both could be in the wrong but who bloody cares.
The sides don't matter.. Watching how these people actually do business, when they're self appointed reps & 'voices' for the
warhammer tournament scene, that's pretty useful information to know. At least for the U.S.
I'll agree with this - I don't know what's happened between the two parties here, so I'm not going to comment on the "what".
What I can do is look at the communications issues by the two parties, and comment on how they come across from them.
Of the two, Pablo's statement comes across as more professional.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2021/05/22 11:18:43
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
ClockworkZion wrote: Honestly Pablo not clarifying doesn't really make him look like the martyred saint some seem to be trying to make him out to be. He has the ability to clear up any misunderstandings and come out of it smelling like roses, but instead he basically pushes blame on FLG for not talking about it instead.
To me this reads more like the kind of thing someone does when they want the skeletons to stay in the closet.
You mean as opposed to the FLG statement which is vague statements about trust and warning people to " Beware" of him ?
FLGs statement was handled in poor taste, as has been said a bunch of times already, I don't see how his is somehow " trying to hide his skeletons " . First, everyone has skeletons of one kind or another, I'm sure FLG has plenty of their own. He's the one getting himself trashed, he's entitled to respond and if he chooses to take the high ground that is only a good thing. He handled it correctly, FLG did not regardless of who is ultimately right or wrong in this. We don't know the actual truth and may never outside of rumor and speculation. The fact of how they both chose to put it out there however does put Pablo in the better position where as all FLG had to do was be professional which in the end was too much to ask for.
2021/05/26 16:51:28
Subject: Re:Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
Dai wrote: People who have taken a "side" on this are such gossiping fishwives. Either or both could be in the wrong but who bloody cares.
The sides don't matter.. Watching how these people actually do business, when they're self appointed reps & 'voices' for the
warhammer tournament scene, that's pretty useful information to know. At least for the U.S.
This right here. We don't know the situation (and frankly, I don't really CARE), but one side handled it better than the other. I'm not sure how it can be seen any other way. Some have said "Pablo should have addressed what he was accused of" or some other variation of that, but honestly, that just comes off as a tit-for-tat kind of thing to me. Whether he did something wrong or not (because speculation here is pointless and counter-productive), Reece and co don't come off well here.
I actually stopped listening to the podcast when the winner of one of the first "COVID" GTs, after dropping slur after slur on the live stream, was brought on the following week with nary a mention of "Maybe this isn't the best way to rep the community, the competitive scene, or the hobby in general" and this has done nothing to dissuade me from the very disappointed view I have had of FLG based on that. I mean, it's a dark day when I am forced to agree with "The Long War" on something ... lol/jk
EDITED AS I MAY HAVE HAD THE WRONG GT IN THE ORIGINAL POST
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/27 02:24:09
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
2021/05/26 17:18:52
Subject: Pablo Statement on FLG and Chapter Tactics Podcast from Facebook
I actually stopped listening to the podcast when the winner of the Flying Monkey GT, after dropping slur after slur on the live stream, was brought on the following week with nary a mention of "Maybe this isn't the best way to rep the community, the competitive scene, or the hobby in general" and this has done nothing to dissuade me from the very disappointed view I have had of them based on that. I mean, it's a dark day when I am forced to agree with "The Long War" on something ... lol/jk
I hadn't heard of this. Do you have any more info? Jon Lennon was the one who won that one, right? A cursory search doesn't indicate any controversy (or discussion of it)
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
