CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?

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**Leo_the_Rat**

I just don't see a reason that CSM would get a point increase. Loyalists have an extra wound but cost the same as a lesser wound CSM same with a lot of other CSM/SM units. So, if there is a point increase then either CSM are that much more fierce than a SM or GW would be outright declaring that they favor SM over everyone CSM.

My guess no point increase for CSM unless there are new rules implemented for them even if they are given an extra wound like their loyalist counterparts.

**Mr. Grey**

techsoldaten wrote:
alextroy wrote:
Considering all the people demanding changes to Codex Drukhari after a month, I can't imagine how 3 months for a balance revision is too soon

More concerned about my Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Death Guard, Chaos Daemons, Guard and CSM armies.

With the lockdowns, haven't played a game of 9th. Having to update lists for a game I'm prevented from playing doesn't sit well.

Doesn't matter if the points go up or down. It's the fact I've never gotten to try what's there.

To be fair, there's almost no point in worrying about it if you're not playing the game anyway. I haven't bought a single thing for 9e and probably won't even get the ork codex until I feel comfortable hanging out at the game store again. (And I'm in a state with a vaccination rate around 30%, so it may be a while.)

**TangoTwoBravo**

While I don't love buying books that become obsolete (looking at you Psychic Awakening), I feel that I got my money's worth with the GT2020 Mission Pack based on using it at tourneys and pick-up Matched Play games. I prefer that they do this annual update to keep things fresh than sit with the same missions/secondaries for three years. I also don't mind paying for it. Its a handy little book that goes in my gaming bag and has all the rules you need at the table.

**Arachnofiend**

Mr. Grey wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
alextroy wrote:
Considering all the people demanding changes to Codex Drukhari after a month, I can't imagine how 3 months for a balance revision is too soon

More concerned about my Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Death Guard, Chaos Daemons, Guard and CSM armies.

With the lockdowns, haven't played a game of 9th. Having to update lists for a game I'm prevented from playing doesn't sit well.

Doesn't matter if the points go up or down. It's the fact I've never gotten to try what's there.

To be fair, there's almost no point in worrying about it if you're not playing the game anyway. I haven't bought a single thing for 9e and probably won't even get the ork codex until I feel comfortable hanging out at the game store again. (And I'm in a state with a vaccination rate around 30%, so it may be a while.)

Yeah if you're not playing you can just... not buy stuff until you are playing again. You don't even have to pay attention to new updates until you start playing again. Letting go is an option

**vict0988**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I just don't see a reason that CSM would get a point increase. Loyalists have an extra wound but cost the same as a lesser wound CSM same with a lot of other CSM/SM units. So, if there is a point increase then either CSM are that much more fierce than a SM or GW would be outright declaring that they favor SM over everyone CSM.

My guess no point increase for CSM unless there are new rules implemented for them even if they are given an extra wound like their loyalist counterparts.

Why do you think CSM are getting a points increase? They need a drop of a minimum of 1 pt and probably 2.

Tactical Squads are 18 PPM, Chaos Space Marines are 14 PPM. SM have better abilities and an extra wound. The wound alone doubles their durability, that should be somewhere around a 33% decrease in points cost. The reason CSM cost 14 is because they used to cost 11 in 8th and everything went up 3 points.

**Jidmah**

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
While I don't love buying books that become obsolete (looking at you Psychic Awakening), I feel that I got my money's worth with the GT2020 Mission Pack based on using it at tourneys and pick-up Matched Play games. I prefer that they do this annual update to keep things fresh than sit with the same missions/secondaries for three years. I also don't mind paying for it. Its a handy little book that goes in my gaming bag and has all the rules you need at the table.

Yep, same here. I feel like this is one of the few non-model things GW sells that is actually worth its money.

**Aenar**

Yeah, this booklet is the best thing that GW sells, at least for those who actively play the game.
I hope the core rules inside are not the old version but the updated/FAQd ones.

I like seeing updates to point costs twice a year, as it theoretically means that the game is better balanced. If they do the same as they did in January, the points will be released for free on the website anyway.
What you're actually paying for is the new mission pack and the core rules booklet.

**p5freak**

Aenar wrote:
Yeah, this booklet is the best thing that GW sells, at least for those who actively play the game.
I hope the core rules inside are not the old version but the updated/FAQd ones.

I would bet money that the core rules inside are not updated.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Here's hoping for a bad mistake on the printers, and Custodes Bikes are now 22ppm!

It's sorta sad when you care more about the mistakes that you know will be made than the successes.

**BlackoCatto**

vict0988 wrote:
I think they changed the names so people don't confuse the old ones and the new ones.

Quasistellar wrote:
I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.

Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.

I agree, part of the reason why I don't think such a secondary should exist is the question why have secondaries in the first place? My answer to that question is that it's a good way to punish people for spamming similar units, playing against 100% horde or 100% vehicle can be an unfun experience unless you have 70% anti-horde or 70% anti-vehicle and if you have 100% anti-horde or anti-vehicle it will also be unfun because it will be too easy. Heavy infantry get countered by anti-infantry and anti-horde, there is no feels-bad in terms of wasting certain weapon profiles on them. There is no value in spamming them unless they simply happen to be undercosted relative to vehicle or horde units in your faction and the answer to that question is nerfing those units on pts. But gangbusters nerfs units that don't need nerfs, like Paladins, Wraithblades and Ogryn.

One possibility that wouldn't impact things too much would be counting wounds caused to non-vehicle non-monster units instead of models killed +9 for each vehicle/monster for the Thin Their Ranks secondary objective. Aaaand my suggestion is already in the game, well that was fast.

The issue is that it doesn't dissuade people from spamming in hordes. Guard get fethed by both secondaries, and so the only way to manage such is to limit the amount of points one could win off of that... that means spamming nothing but infantry.

**alextroy**

p5freak wrote:
Aenar wrote:
Yeah, this booklet is the best thing that GW sells, at least for those who actively play the game.
I hope the core rules inside are not the old version but the updated/FAQd ones.

I would bet money that the core rules inside are not updated.

That is a bet... I am not willing to take

Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised.

**Not Online!!!**

If only they would've hired that editor that they supposedly hired some time ago...
Certainly doesn't feel like it

**Jidmah**

alextroy wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Aenar wrote:
Yeah, this booklet is the best thing that GW sells, at least for those who actively play the game.
I hope the core rules inside are not the old version but the updated/FAQd ones.

I would bet money that the core rules inside are not updated.
That is a bet... I am not willing to take

Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, that would be typical of GW - updating all the missions and objectives but printing the same unerrate'ed BRB for the rest of the pages.

**techsoldaten**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Mr. Grey wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
alextroy wrote:
Considering all the people demanding changes to Codex Drukhari after a month, I can't imagine how 3 months for a balance revision is too soon

More concerned about my Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Death Guard, Chaos Daemons, Guard and CSM armies.

With the lockdowns, haven't played a game of 9th. Having to update lists for a game I'm prevented from playing doesn't sit well.

Doesn't matter if the points go up or down. It's the fact I've never gotten to try what's there.

To be fair, there's almost no point in worrying about it if you're not playing the game anyway. I haven't bought a single thing for 9e and probably won't even get the ork codex until I feel comfortable hanging out at the game store again. (And I'm in a state with a vaccination rate around 30%, so it may be a while.)

Yeah if you're not playing you can just... not buy stuff until you are playing again. You don't even have to pay attention to new updates until you start playing again. Letting go is an option

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I appreciate the suggestion to ignore the game and change my spending patterns, it's very helpful.

Probably be good for everyone to follow this advice.

**Daedalus81**

Landraiders will now be 265 base. Sorta meh, but happy they aren't going over the top if these are the "biggest" drops.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/

The better new is TS & GK next and a new HQ for TS! Woot woot!

**yukishiro1**

Immortals are only 4 points more than Warriors right now...looks like all they did was remove the cost on the tesla. If that's one of the five biggest changes...

**Darsath**

yukishiro1 wrote:
Immortals are only 4 points more than Warriors right now...looks like all they did was remove the cost on the tesla. If that's one of the five biggest changes...

Not sure I'd qualify that change as "big" to be perfectly honest.

**TangoTwoBravo**

Some info on the Grey Knights and Thousand Sons books. They are delayed, but they are coming!

**yukishiro1**

You can also tell from the GK/TS points values that they aren't doing anything about multi-meltas.

**waefre_1**

Daedalus81 wrote:
The better news is Space Marines & also Evil Space Marines next and a new HQ for these very specific Evil Space Marines! Woot woot!

I mean, sure, it's better than two Loyalist SM chapters getting separate codices, but still...

**Not Online!!!**

oh look the cut content supplement got another validation for existing....
Jokes aside, but the bloating for monetary sake is annoying and doesn't help the release schedule. as in the cut content first day DLC, not the dexes

But neither does the fact that GW didn't get the show on during the pandemic, kinda confused that they had this much logisitcal problems, considering other companies had to fight with the same problems yet still managed.

**vict0988**

Darsath wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Immortals are only 4 points more than Warriors right now...looks like all they did was remove the cost on the tesla. If that's one of the five biggest changes...

Not sure I'd qualify that change as "big" to be perfectly honest.

If you want to take 30 or 50 tesla Immortals it is definitely huge, that's 60-100 pts. Maybe that's just because I've been butthurt over GW giving me the finger after I just built 30 additional Immortals. Sautekh is going to be a non-option for them so I can't use them together with my unique characters but at least I can probably make them work as Szarekhan, Mephrit or a custom dynasty.

**Spoletta**

Nah, there were no changes to immortals.

The guys from WHC just got drunk again.

Actually, there are no changes to Necrons at all.

**Ravajaxe**

Wait, Tesla carbines seem to be going free.

**yukishiro1**

Spoletta wrote:
Nah, there were no changes to immortals.

The guys from WHC just got drunk again.

Actually, there are no changes to Necrons at all.

Has it been leaked? The article says the tesla is free, which means they're 4 points more than warriors no matter which loadout they take.

It's not much of a change, but that would be a change; right now you pay +2 points per model for the tesla (which is very silly).

**Spoletta**

yukishiro1 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Nah, there were no changes to immortals.

The guys from WHC just got drunk again.

Actually, there are no changes to Necrons at all.

Has it been leaked? The article says the tesla is free, which means they're 4 points more than warriors no matter which loadout they take.

It's not much of a change, but that would be a change; right now you pay +2 points per model for the tesla (which is very silly).

I had a look at one in person. Tesla Carbines are 2 points. Immortals are 17.

By the way, there were pretty much no point changes.

**yukishiro1**

Still not sure what you're trying to say. The article is accurate: immortals are being changed to be 4 points more than warriors no matter what their loadout is, which is a change from before in that before they were 4 points more with gauss, or 6 points more with tesla.

It's ridiculous to call that a big change, but it is a change.

Or are you trying to say you've seen a leaked copy of the new MFM 2021 and the tesla carbine still costs 2 points, even though the article claims it doesn't?

**Spoletta**

yukishiro1 wrote:
Still not sure what you're trying to say. The article is accurate: immortals are being changed to be 4 points more than warriors no matter what their loadout is, which is a change from before in that before they were 4 points more with gauss, or 6 points more with tesla.

It's ridiculous to call that a big change, but it is a change.

Or are you trying to say you've seen the new MFM 2021 and the tesla carbine still costs 2 points, even though the article claims it doesn't?

Exactly that. I've seen the book. Tesla carbines still cost 2 points. It wasn't an English one, so it could be a typo, but it was definitely 2 points.

**yukishiro1**

Based on past precedent, the English version is more likely to have typos than the non-English version.

**Karol**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Landraiders will now be 265 base. Sorta meh, but happy they aren't going over the top if these are the "biggest" drops.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/

The better new is TS & GK next and a new HQ for TS! Woot woot!

My lack of smarts hits me hard again. I see GW saying that a LR at 265pts is great, and I can't imagine why someone wouldn't just take an extra squads or more bodies in their squads. Specially when being inside one makes the unit do absolutly nothing for 1-2 turns, which is big for armies that can't have units do nothing.

But the good thing about it all is that GW tells me, a GK player in advance, that the points costs for my army are wrong in the entire book. Which probably means the books should have come out last year, and the TS/GK book should be out now. Yay for saving money, because of covid delays.

Plus I wonder which MK of power armour are those GK strikes wearing, because this isn't the armour regular GK strikes have now