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sigh im gonna open up a can of worms here because no else is talking about it -

Mont’ka: In a turn in which a <SEPT> COMMANDER unit from your army declared Mont’ka, at the start of your Movement phase you can select any friendly <SEPT> units within 6" of that unit. Until the end of that turn, the selected units can shoot as if they did not move this turn.

battle focus
If this unit moves or Advances in its Movement phase, weapons (excluding Heavy weapons) are used as if the unit had remained stationary.



Both Tau and Eldar Craftworld abilities (above) use the term Move and Moves

Under the core rules (below) these terms mean the same thing



it has been reported the New FAQ (below) gives Tau Montka the ability to fall back and shoot because the FAQ uses the term Moved which is again a "normal move" as stated in the core rules (above)a non specific type of move is a "normal move"
- if Tau MontKa can fall back and shoot so can Eldar battle focus units based on the core rule stating Move/Moves mean the same thing (not advance, don't talk to me about advancing, i don't want any to tell me battle focus is for advancing only, it clearly says "Moves" or advances)

it must apply to both or apply to neither






Discuss ......................as i run for the hills

Assuming the second bold line is the CWE rule, what part of it makes you think they count as being eligible to count as having "remained stationary" after falling back?

You quoted the core rule about move normally, which clears up that the CWE only count as being stationary if they make a normal move or advance move. A fallback move is not this.

Mont'ka's however doesn't care what type of move that you made (or are yet to make), rather it has a range limit (being 6" of <SEPT> COMMANDER at the start of the movement phase).

JakeSiren wrote:
Assuming the second bold line is the CWE rule, what part of it makes you think they count as being eligible to count as having "remained stationary" after falling back?

You quoted the core rule about move normally, which clears up that the CWE only count as being stationary if they make a normal move or advance move. A fallback move is not this.

Mont'ka's however doesn't care what type of move that you made (or are yet to make), rather it has a range limit (being 6" of <SEPT> COMMANDER at the start of the movement phase).

just to be clear i don't necessarily think eldar can fallback and shoot, i don't think either eldar or tau can. but if 1 can so can the other, because "remain stationary" is triggered on a normal move for both.

it's because in montka it says it can shoot as if it did not move, it does not say it can shoot as if it did not fall back, (or advance for that matter)

so montka does care what kind of move you make.

as i posted above Rules that refer to move are referring to a normal move.

thats what i don't get, people are reading something that is't there?

it says it can "shoot as if it did not move". i.e. Normal move - based on core rules for move normally above.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbbobb wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
Assuming the second bold line is the CWE rule, what part of it makes you think they count as being eligible to count as having "remained stationary" after falling back?

You quoted the core rule about move normally, which clears up that the CWE only count as being stationary if they make a normal move or advance move. A fallback move is not this.

Mont'ka's however doesn't care what type of move that you made (or are yet to make), rather it has a range limit (being 6" of <SEPT> COMMANDER at the start of the movement phase).

just to be clear i don't necessarily think eldar can fallback and shoot, i don't think either eldar or tau can. but if 1 can so can the other, because "remain stationary" is triggered on a normal move for both.

it's because in montka it says it can shoot as if it did not move, it does not say it can shoot as if it did not fall back, (or advance for that matter)

so montka does care what kind of move you make.

as i posted above Rules that refer to move are referring to a normal move.

thats what i don't get, people are reading something that is't there?

it says it can "shoot as if it did not move". i.e. Normal move - based on core rules for move normally above.

alright alright.


so the rare rule faq stationary are trigger by declaring montka - meaning it can fall back and shoot under rare rules

so the rare rule faq stationary are trigger by battle focus on a normal move or advance - which is why eldar don't get to fallback and shoot. because falling back doesn't trigger battle focus, which doesn't trigger rare rules

Thanks for creating this thread kingbbobb, I was wondering about this as well.

JakeSiren wrote:
Assuming the second bold line is the CWE rule, what part of it makes you think they count as being eligible to count as having "remained stationary" after falling back?

You quoted the core rule about move normally, which clears up that the CWE only count as being stationary if they make a normal move or advance move. A fallback move is not this.

Mont'ka's however doesn't care what type of move that you made (or are yet to make), rather it has a range limit (being 6" of <SEPT> COMMANDER at the start of the movement phase).

I agree with this.

Essentially Battle Focus does:
Stationary => Stationary
Normal Move => Stationary
Advance => Stationary
Fall Back => Fall Back

Mont'ka does:
Stationary => Stationary
Normal Move => Stationary
Advance => Stationary
Fall Back => Stationary

 Jidmah wrote:
Thanks for creating this thread kingbbobb, I was wondering about this as well.

JakeSiren wrote:
Assuming the second bold line is the CWE rule, what part of it makes you think they count as being eligible to count as having "remained stationary" after falling back?

You quoted the core rule about move normally, which clears up that the CWE only count as being stationary if they make a normal move or advance move. A fallback move is not this.

Mont'ka's however doesn't care what type of move that you made (or are yet to make), rather it has a range limit (being 6" of <SEPT> COMMANDER at the start of the movement phase).

I agree with this.

Essentially Battle Focus does:
Stationary => Stationary
Normal Move => Stationary
Advance => Stationary
Fall Back => Fall Back

Mont'ka does:
Stationary => Stationary
Normal Move => Stationary
Advance => Stationary
Fall Back => Stationary

Concur. We discussed this very thing on a Aeldari discord and ended up with the same conclusion. As a Craftworld player, it would have been nice, but the rules do not appear to support it. Jidmah's breakdown is an excellent depiction.

So... does the condition persist throughout the phases?

So, if an Eldar unit advances and shoots it's guns and is considered stationary... does that condition carry over into the Charge phase therefore making the unit eligible to charge? (Ref bullet point 4 above)

Edit: I don't think that it would... as the check is when firing a weapon and there is no way to fire a weapon in the charge phase outside of overwatch....

SaganGree wrote:
So... does the condition persist throughout the phases?

So, if an Eldar unit advances and shoots it's guns and is considered stationary... does that condition carry over into the Charge phase therefore making the unit eligible to charge? (Ref bullet point 4 above)

Edit: I don't think that it would... as the check is when firing a weapon and there is no way to fire a weapon in the charge phase outside of overwatch....

Battle focus says “weapons... are used as if the unit had remained stationary”. This has no bearing on eligibility to charge. The unit isn’t considered to have remained stationary for the purposes of declaring charges.

SaganGree wrote:
So... does the condition persist throughout the phases?

So, if an Eldar unit advances and shoots it's guns and is considered stationary... does that condition carry over into the Charge phase therefore making the unit eligible to charge? (Ref bullet point 4 above)

Edit: I don't think that it would... as the check is when firing a weapon and there is no way to fire a weapon in the charge phase outside of overwatch....

Indeed, they do no confer blanked 'count as stationary'. but only do so when shooting so it doesn't count for the charge phase.