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chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats actually pretty great, hats off to him. I have to say I'm surprised though - when he was with GW he was omnipresent, two thin coat memes were everywhere, people were constantly posting links and referring newbies to his painting tutorials, etc. At this point, prior to coming along this thread I can't remember the last time I saw or heard his name and I've been seeing other painters crossing my feed a lot more often

When was last time you heard any other GW painter name besides him?

 Arbitrator wrote:
Plus judging by his Twitter he doesn't play much GW stuff anymore. If he was showing up at 40k events instead of ASOIAF stuff (which seems to be his main game now) you'd probably see far more "I JUST MET MISTER TWO THIN COATS!!!" posts making it to the Reddit front page.

Seeing he seems to love Deathwatch (he posted full, converted DW army years before GW released 7th edition codex) I wouldn't be playing anymore either if I had to touch that pile of steaming gak. I haven't bought or paint a single DW model in 9th edition since "supplement"

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.

He's predominently for beginners who want to achieve a solid tabletop standard. He's not for winning competitions, but for newcomers or just people with little/no confidence in painting to look at him achieve a good looking, tabletop standard without any overly complicated techniques or materials and think "that doesn't look tricky at all, maybe even I could do it!"

And to be fair, he does have technique videos on his website and some on the Youtube channel too I believe.

I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting

From one of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video.

Loz_Ozo wrote:is this a UK only thing or will i be able to buy this internationally ?

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We are working with Transatlantis Games you (sic) are based in both Europe and the US so we are trying to get it distributed as far and wide as we possibly can

EDIT: Speaking of Trans Atlantis Games...

Bob Watts - CEO: CEO of Trans Atlantis Games LLC from October 2020 to present, President of Cerberus Entertainment from 2006 to present, CEO of Sabertooth Games from 2003 to 2005, VP of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro from 1999 to 2001 and President of Games Workshop NA from 1990 to 1991.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

 Ghaz wrote:
From one of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video.

Loz_Ozo wrote:is this a UK only thing or will i be able to buy this internationally ?

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We are working with Transatlantis Games you (sic) are based in both Europe and the US so we are trying to get it distributed as far and wide as we possibly can

EDIT: Speaking of Trans Atlantis Games...

Bob Watts - CEO: CEO of Trans Atlantis Games LLC from October 2020 to present, President of Cerberus Entertainment from 2006 to present, CEO of Sabertooth Games from 2003 to 2005, VP of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro from 1999 to 2001 and President of Games Workshop NA from 1990 to 1991.

So this is what's Bob's doing after leaving Privateer, where it didn't really seam like he did anything.

BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting

Yeah, I'm a bit of the same mind, while I still wish him the best for his painting line. I know that even with a paint conversion chart handy, I'm very reluctant to switch from the recommended colors when I'm following a tutorial. And I don't think I'll be investing in the "Two Thin Coats" paints because I've way too many paints already.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

Speak for yourself.

I say good luck to him. Especially if he genuinely uses his own paints in his paint tutorials.
I just pray he doesn't give them ridiculous GW style paint names.

I do find it heartening that the biggest name in GW's employed painting history, would rather use dripper bottles. Says a lot.

BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting

In his videos he usually states the Citadel alternative if he's using an AP paint or brush. He's probably well aware that a lot of people will only ever use Citadel paints/tools/brushes - if he doesn't keep up that practise I'd be surprised, at least on his Warhammer videos.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

Speak for yourself.

Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

Speak for yourself.

Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?

You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

Speak for yourself.

Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?

You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.

Ad hominems against me don't really answer why you're dumping on duncan. I guess there's a leap of courage you're yet to take.

Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.

When there's nothing ventured there's nothing gained.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 GoldenHorde wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community

Speak for yourself.

Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?

You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.

Ad hominems against me don't really answer why you're dumping on duncan. I guess there's a leap of courage you're yet to take.

Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.

When there's nothing ventured there's nothing gained.

f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.

 NAVARRO wrote:
f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.

Eh, I agree. Undermining a product with negative feedback before it's been released is toxic.

I want to know who the manufacturer is. Doubt Duncan is putting this together in his basement.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?

Not at all, really.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.

Eh, I agree. Undermining a product with negative feedback before it's been released is toxic.

I want to know who the manufacturer is. Doubt Duncan is putting this together in his basement.

I’m so glad there are people here who decide what is toxic or not for me .

Seriously he asked if there a need for another paint line. If you’d bother to know who he is or look at his painting skills (way better than mine), then maybe he is trying to open a discourse about the subject. Nowhere did he say that we don’t need another paint range or that this is stupid. He left it open ended for people to discuss what is still needed in the paint market, maybe there is a hole that he doesn’t see. You could counter with “I can’t find a range that is opaque enough, or translucent enough, or doesn’t have good mixing qualities, or that is in my price range”, plenty of options. If you want to have a debate and be productive on a discussion forum, why don’t you discuss the topic instead of immediately thinking the writer is “Toxic” or negative.

If you can’t post something without limiting or attacking someone else, take a break, remember rule #1 “Be Polite”.

When we get to it, are miniature paints needed at all? Do we need Vallejo, GW, P3 etc when we could just use Apple Barrel or some other artists' acrylics?
Or even games? Who really needs Kill Team, what vital function does another skirmish game fulfill in society?

 GoldenHorde wrote:


Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.

That was me, except I said he "he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days", which is different from actually calling him a has been. What I said is a statement of perspective, whereas saying "He is a has been" is a statement of fact. The reason is because he has, from my perspective, fallen off the map (as I said in the post in question) and went from being a basically omnipresent daily part of my interaction with the hobby and the community to someone whos name I haven't even heard mentioned in at least a year, possibly longer.

And for the record - I have brought products to market in this hobby/industry. I will also be the first to tell you that I am a small, insignificant, and largely irrelevant part of the hobby landscape and am fine being referred to as a never was.

Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

Personally I have loads of paints from several lines and would like to get more from Scale 75 which I have not tried yet and some technical oddities from greenstuff world... but I have to confess that from a regional point of view today UK is well covered by options ( it may be different in other parts of the world).

I do think theres a huge hole in the miniatures painting industry and that is Oil painting. That, for sure, would get me spending a lot of money.

I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?

Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?

After watching hours of MarcoFrisoniNJM I would buy miniature oil paints.

Best of luck to him. Personal opinion is he’ll struggle to make an impact with a product in an area that is already very well served by both big and small players, but what the hell do I know.

Cronch wrote:I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?

No idea. But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market. While a new acrylic line will just be another acrylic line so will predate on the same water of bigger fishes.

Jammer87 wrote:

Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?

After watching hours of MarcoFrisoniNJM I would buy miniature oil paints.

There was a great Dakka member that started his adventures on Oil painting and now streams on Twitch, has a blog and not sure if he uses you tube... but search for Wappelius. The great master of painting oil on miniatures.

This precedes Marcos adventures IIRC and takes you into a new way of painting miniatures. Its quite inspiring really.

But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?

Cronch wrote:

But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?

Everything has pros and cons. I can elaborate more on those but I do suggest you to have a look and some of James Wappel tutorials and be careful because it will break all your acrylic tabus out of the water ( cheesy pun intended).
Main pro I would say you can blend and paint at high standard with less effort ( you know dry brush? then you are pro at blending with oils.) and most importantly at a fraction of the time. If someone told you that you could paint to better results, 4 or 5 times faster would you not be at least curious?
Main Con ( get the consistency wrong and you are looking at ridiculous drying times) painting by numbers is not applicable you need to mix colours etc.

I have watched plenty of these tuts but I confess that I have not took the leap yet, you see sculpting takes precedent over painting so time is really short to "start over".

A new line of miniature painting oils in smaller tubes, backed with some patreon tutorials and Duncan would have my attention

Without turning this into "oils the thread", I've given a quick skim of the vids, and I do not see the appeal at all.

That being said, the question of "is another paint line needed" will be decided by the customers, so we'll see in a year or two.

Cronch wrote:
When we get to it, are miniature paints needed at all? Do we need Vallejo, GW, P3 etc when we could just use Apple Barrel or some other artists' acrylics?

Strictly speaking, no, but those lines offer certain advantages over artists' acrylics. If you were accustomed to using cheap craft story acrylics I could think of a few reasons you might switch to Vallejo/GW/whomever.

If another paint range comes out and it offers nothing over what I already use, then I have no reason to switch. I would hope there'd be something unique about a new paint range, otherwise why buy in?

NAVARRO wrote:

Cronch wrote:I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?

No idea. But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market. While a new acrylic line will just be another acrylic line so will predate on the same water of bigger fishes.

Oil paints probably have the issue that they are a bit more difficult to handle, and there might be some safety issues around them for young kids. That's just much easier to deal with acrylic paints that only need water. The benefits of oil painting also don't seems to fit the idea of painting something quickly to have it battle ready due to longer drying times. I see the possible audience for oil paints similar to airbrush usage, but maybe even smaller. With an airbrush you can buy some airbrush thinner and use quite a lot of your exiting miniature acrylics (besides some extra clumpy ones or dried up ones). But if you want to start with oils you need the paints plus a new set of brushes as well as learning new processes.

I don't see oils ever taking a big chunk the mainstream (GW-ish) miniature painting market. And those who are willing to put in the work seem to use existing oil paints. From that perspective a new acrylic line seems the better bet. But I also don't see the need for even more acrylic paint lines. Two or three lines—that are targeted at that GW-ish market without being "company owned"—are already more than enough (for me, even so I wouldn't buy them all) and after that you end up with diminishing returns and I wonder how many people can buy into another whole new set of paints. I know that technically more options are always good but at some point the market can also be oversaturated with two smaller lines maybe cannibalising each other and both of them suffering from it.

I remember when Rackham released their own line and its big features seemed to be their slightly different consistency and how they handle, not that the range was super exciting with new hues of all types or specialty paints. Sure it's nice for a company if it can hook people on their paints (nice margins, a bit comparable to soft drinks at McDonalds) but as an end user another new line of paints just makes me sigh.

I wish him luck with that new line of paints and it probably depends on how it all works. If it's an already existing line that just gets his branding and he gets a cut then there's probably little risk for him. It could make it easier for people (who are new-ish to painting or who want a stricter step by step process) to follow his tutorials if they buy his line. More power to them (him and his audience) and I hope it works out for them, even if it's 100% not for me. Then there are some people like to collect whole paint lines for the convenience of having every imaginable colour without needing to mix anything. They would probably also be willing to buy into a whole new line

Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

Staying within one line of paint feels like a necessity to not buy superfluous paints on impulse.

Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.