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Made in us
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

I could be wrong, but I recall hearing something to the effect of "oil paints never fully dry"? Isn't that something you would want to avoid in a miniature you're going to be handling while playing with?

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Well, that's pretty much what i meant, only it's more detailled and better written

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/17 21:40:41


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







@Mario Very good points, I haven't considered the inconvenience of oils regarding younger audiences. And yes I think if you decide to go for oils its a full painting reset, new brushes, paints and the fun part new techniques.

I never got to try the Rachham lines, at the time I lived in another country and it was not easy to get hold of them. Did you like them?

Vallejos lines are big for sure, game colour and model colour and seems like they have expanded on to other ranges too.
I would be curious to see how many unique paint pots exist in total in the top 5 ranges, its probably something really scary.
So yes with hundreds of unique colours paint pots already widely available everywhere, yet to be tried or checked, Im not convinced I need more

I like to have several ranges, I think they complement each other like some yellows are great on X range but not so good on y range, metallics the same etc. But I also mix paints so its not that bad ( a reason I find scale 75 a bit strange was the same tone with different strengths ).

@Mario and chaos0xomega I agree the Drying times are something that really bothers me too with oil paintings. While talking live to Wappelius and others they say if you do it right it will dry in one day or so... what Im worried about is me not doing it right

I think its worth a go personally and just need to get my timings right to get a couple tubes and mess it up. Theres nothing better than to try it out by yourself before committing to a sizeable investment in time and money.

Duncan lines seems to be 10 pots on the picture so not that many for maybe a starter set. I just hope they bring something to the crowded pound.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/17 21:42:31


   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I bought some of the rackham paints and tought they were very very bad. Which was weird since most Rackham products were high end quality

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/17 21:51:50


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




the fun part new techniques

I think you might be overestimating how much most people in the wargaming hobby enjoy painting, or to the extent of having to start from 0 again.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy).

He has already confirmed that he will be transitioning to his own paint line for tutorials.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

 NAVARRO wrote:
Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

Personally I have loads of paints from several lines and would like to get more from Scale 75 which I have not tried yet and some technical oddities from greenstuff world... but I have to confess that from a regional point of view today UK is well covered by options ( it may be different in other parts of the world).

I do think theres a huge hole in the miniatures painting industry and that is Oil painting. That, for sure, would get me spending a lot of money.



The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.

The quality of acrylic hobby paints still leaves a lot to be desired. Separation, colour shift, coverage, the metallics are still inferior, the paints tend to lift easier when using masking tape etc so on and so forth

Living in a world of make believe
I can hide behind what's real 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull





Melbourne .au

 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.


Mate, YOU need to calm down a tad.

Your posting is unnecessarily aggressive - and I get it - you're probably locked down and stressed right now and watching it all re-unfold and likely haven't had a chance for any kind of shot. But yeah, calm down on the aggro.

Dakka isn't the abusive gakhole of twitter, but we do have healthy discussion back and forth, and people are certainly able to express their opinions, doubts, dislikes and reservations on any topic that comes up - there's no mandate for everything being sunshine and rainbows. There's also a couple of other people that have been pretty quick to throw out the old "toxic" who also need to calm the feth down with that sort of thing. Just because a person says something that another disagrees with, doesn't mean it's "toxic". That word is way too fething overused.

As for Duncan's upcoming paint - I certainly don't need it. I have tons of paints from many other lines - but as with anything hobby-related, I'm always open to more unnecessary purchases , so I look forward with a degree of interest to see what his USP is. I think supply will be the biggest issue here, since Australia is often last priority or not at all a priority with supply of these things. We'll see if perhaps they can get into Amazon's supply chain.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/19 03:11:53


   
Made in au
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All the best to Duncan, but my first thought was "what does thing bring to the table?"

If it brings something new, that's awesome, I'd love to try them, if all it is is yet another range of hobby acrylics, I'm a bit "meh".

An LGS not far from me has done a great job making paints different paint ranges available. They have a rack and a half of GW paint, I think 3 full racks of Vallejo, I think 2 racks of Scale75 in dropper bottles, plus a rack of Scale75 heavy body acrylics, a rack of P3, a bunch of loose Reaper paints, a rack of Army painter, a rack of Tamiya paints, there's at least 2 other ones I can't remember, maybe AK interactive. Then they also have multiple racks of rattle cans, a bunch of weathering stuff (powders, oils thinners) and so on. Basically their paint area is bigger than some storefronts

Point being, it's a very crowded market place for what is only hobby acrylics for toy soldiers, so I'm struggling to get excited unless they're bringing something new which advances how I approach painting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azazelx wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Funnily enough VMC are designed to mimic historical colours for enthusiasts, but they're often the worst match for historic colours when compared to other companies with the same focus (Humbrol, Testors, Tamiya, Gunze).

But they are nice paint, I agree that it's nice to have some colours that are desaturated out of the bottle. In general they have really good coverage (probably helped by being more desaturated, they're not having to compromise opacity for vibrancy).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Cronch wrote:
But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?


Everything has pros and cons. I can elaborate more on those but I do suggest you to have a look and some of James Wappel tutorials and be careful because it will break all your acrylic tabus out of the water ( cheesy pun intended).
Main pro I would say you can blend and paint at high standard with less effort ( you know dry brush? then you are pro at blending with oils.) and most importantly at a fraction of the time. If someone told you that you could paint to better results, 4 or 5 times faster would you not be at least curious?
Main Con ( get the consistency wrong and you are looking at ridiculous drying times) painting by numbers is not applicable you need to mix colours etc.

I have watched plenty of these tuts but I confess that I have not took the leap yet, you see sculpting takes precedent over painting so time is really short to "start over".

A new line of miniature painting oils in smaller tubes, backed with some patreon tutorials and Duncan would have my attention


I bought myself a set of Winsor and Newton's Winton oil colours, if you want to try out oils they're a great spot to start because some of the cheaper oils are much harder to work with, the Winton is a step up but you can get the starter set reasonably cheap (art stores often put them up on discount).

I really love working with oils, blending is so stupid easy. I'm not a good painter by any means, but I painted a cape with really creamy nice blends in the space of about 10 minutes by laying down 3 different brightnesses and just mixing the paint on the model to create nice blends. Another model I felt was looking a bit too clean for a soldier in the field, so I got some burnt umber and just put a couple of really tiny spots on him which I was able to blend in seamlessly in a few seconds and doesn't look like an afterthought even though it was. You can also create a bit of texture if you want, with things like leather you can intentionally under-blend it to create a rough slightly streaky appearance without looking messy.

Where oils could be awesome for miniature painting is for people who spend a bit of time on their models, but aren't in the realm of professional painters. The kinds of people who do a shade and a couple of highlights and take 1-2 hours to paint a model. For those sorts of people, swapping to oils has the potential to really boost their quality while taking a similar amount of time to paint a model. MarcoFrison does a great job showing what can be done with oils relatively quickly and I've linked one of his videos below (though I'm not sure I believe the times he quotes, they seem insanely fast for the quality of his work).

The two big downsides for oils for me was the drying time and the chemicals. The drying time is usually not an issue if you're painting a lot of models, because it's not like you're going to be painting an army one day and playing with it the next, waiting a week for things to cure isn't really a huge problem, but I have had the experience where even after a week I've picked up a model and left a finger print on it because it wasn't fully dry.

But the bigger problem for me is the chemicals required for thinning. I'm hypersensitive to a lot of chemicals, and oil paint thinners take their toll on my body so I've mostly stopped using them. In the past I'd only ever use oils for a few minutes at a time, but last time I painted a whole model in oils and so was exposing myself to the thinner for maybe a couple of hours and the next day I felt terrible. And yes, this is the odourless thinner! I can't smell it at all, but my body feels the effects anyway.




This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/18 04:50:14


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 NAVARRO wrote:
Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

If i was to say the strongest lines in terms os market Saturation are
GW(Easy to get a hold of and can do almost any technique well)
Army PAinter(same as GW, but more suited to layering and just painting a model)
Vallejo(Great for any lvl of painting, pretty much the best middle of the road paint)
Scale75(Super matte finish that doesnt mess with your eyes, decent range, alot of people use them)

You got P3, Reaper and some other ones but they are pretty much dead around here and i hear hard to get a hold of
Duncan always did well with just his tutorials using AP and GW. so im not sure what his brand bring.
ESPECIALLY is you have to special order them

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/18 05:08:42


5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in au
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Australia

Of no interest to me, but I wish him every success.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I can understand why he is doing it, but for me what I've enjoyed from his videos since leaving GW was that he wasn't only using one line of products. Maybe the ones he used were due to sponsorship etc, but in my mind what differentiated him now from his tutorials for GW was the freedom to use whichever paint he thought was best for the task at hand rather than being limited to GW's range.

With his own line of paints he'll be using those and promoting his product rather than using the "best" product.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/18 07:02:41


 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







@AllSeeingSkink your store seems to be well stocked for sure!
Thanks for the Oil tips, much appreciated! Im quite of a Winsor and Newton fanboy too XD I have loads of W&N Pro watercolours and inks for my other art endeavours so I will check out the oil range more carefully.

I also noticed the colour vibrancy of oils VS acrylics is quite different. Ultimately depends on the colours chosen but I get the feeling for that extra pop to the eye on Fantasy miniatures oils have an advantage.
Marco does a great job with these tutorials and yeah he does claim to paint at the speed of light I think once you get the hang of it you will speed up the painting process. James Wappel streams are real time and yeah he also paints SO fast with oils, seems almost second nature to them.

Sorry to hear about your intolerance to the thinners man.

Regarding Duncan range and him putting his name on the pots and socials it seems he's looking into merging and create a brand of "painting Duncan way" with Duncan paints.
Unlike for example Marco or James as mentioned I cannot pinpoint a Duncan style of painting since its a copy extension of GW way of painting? So not sure about the branding.
Also phasing other brands and obviously support his own range will create a niche inside a niche, so your pool of interest will potentially shrink?

Either way I hope theres more to this than just another line of acrylics with a label. Like several expressed already here I do think I'm well covered if not spoiled with choice already when it comes with paint lines for miniatures.



   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Tallarook, Victoria, Australia

 Azazelx wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.


Mate, YOU need to calm down a tad.

Your posting is unnecessarily aggressive - and I get it - you're probably locked down and stressed right now and watching it all re-unfold and likely haven't had a chance for any kind of shot. But yeah, calm down on the aggro.

Dakka isn't the abusive gakhole of twitter, but we do have healthy discussion back and forth, and people are certainly able to express their opinions, doubts, dislikes and reservations on any topic that comes up - there's no mandate for everything being sunshine and rainbows. There's also a couple of other people that have been pretty quick to throw out the old "toxic" who also need to calm the feth down with that sort of thing. Just because a person says something that another disagrees with, doesn't mean it's "toxic". That word is way too fething overused.


I'm sure he explained his unhealthy cynicism in the mature and well articulated one liner he dropped which "opens discourse" but sounded more like an angsty teenager having a whinge.

In the same sense it is telling both you and he avoid the actual discourse and opposing arguments.

Feel free to discourse the hell out of things that I mentioned. Otherwise agree to disagree. Saying "other paint lines exist" and ignoring counter arguments is not really a sufficient or convincing supporting position.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/19 03:12:52


Living in a world of make believe
I can hide behind what's real 
   
Made in ca
Painting Within the Lines






Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


Cornering a small niche is the best way to guarantee income for a company these days.
I’d be all over a miniature oil paint line.
I’d say that it’s about the only niche not covered already. But as technology improves and knowledge grows, new products get produced using new technologies, further expanding knowledge again.
While I feel we might have reached somewhat of a plateau, I have still to find a good white, brush on primer, and bright yellows or oranges that can cover well in a single coat.

Scale75 seems to do well on Kickstarter, and have launched at least 3 paint lines over the past few years.
Their Artists line in the tubes are fantastic, and act very much like a gouache. I have a dozen colours and plan on getting the entire line. I’d give them a try no matter where you live, as the shipping from Spain is very reasonable.
I’d say it won’t be long before we’ll see an oil paint line.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/18 22:40:46


 
   
Made in us
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Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.
   
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


There is abteilung oils, though from people who use oils they describe them more as a mid ranged oil, and that if you actually want to paint with them (not just use them as effects) then going for one of the higher end artist oils is better. I’ve not personally used abteilung though.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




NAVARRO wrote:I never got to try the Rachham lines, at the time I lived in another country and it was not easy to get hold of them. Did you like them?
I've only heard about them. I used mostly Vallejo Model Color by then, although not a historical painter and don't care about their colour persnickety so I used that plus whatever of my Citadel paints hadn't dried yet (at the time GW had real problems with that). I have heard from others who used them that they issues with the line having been somewhat inconsistent. They also apparently felt more like acrylic paints that were used in animation. That also led to them separating a bit if you mixed them with other paints, meaning you had to mix them a bit if you let them stay without using your mix for a while. That also led to them overall having good coverage but being easier to rub off if you didn't seal them. It's been a long time but I think the explanation was that they created a thin film in a way that was different from other acrylic mini paints (that being what made them similar to the paints used by traditional animators). But somebody who knows them better should correct me here if my memory is bad.

Vallejos lines are big for sure, game colour and model colour and seems like they have expanded on to other ranges too.
I would be curious to see how many unique paint pots exist in total in the top 5 ranges, its probably something really scary.
So yes with hundreds of unique colours paint pots already widely available everywhere, yet to be tried or checked, Im not convinced I need more
Vallejo Model Color alone has close to 200 now. I think two decades ago they didn't have that many (just around 100 or so?), and also fewer special ranges. They had Air Color, a few of these fancy metallics, and Game Color had barely started and was a new line. Even within one line of paints this has gone off the rails.


I like to have several ranges, I think they complement each other like some yellows are great on X range but not so good on y range, metallics the same etc. But I also mix paints so its not that bad ( a reason I find scale 75 a bit strange was the same tone with different strengths ).
One range is enough for me, with metallics being the exception. I did start our really wanting to replicate certain (studio) paint jobs and being way too invested in collecting old paints that were not sold anymore (like GW's old ranges) until I realised that lighting/photography is a huge factor in all of this. After that I just wanted more simplicity and it became easier to quickly mix something as needed than to buy 10 different hues just to cover the whole paint chart possibility space. I also had the luxury of being able to stop worrying about coverage of certain colours (yellows, whites, oranges) as I switched to using white or light grey primer.

@Mario and chaos0xomega I agree the Drying times are something that really bothers me too with oil paintings. While talking live to Wappelius and others they say if you do it right it will dry in one day or so... what Im worried about is me not doing it right

I think its worth a go personally and just need to get my timings right to get a couple tubes and mess it up. Theres nothing better than to try it out by yourself before committing to a sizeable investment in time and money.
I never used oils much (too much of a hassle) but it seems that using them as finishing paints seems to be the easiest option. Paint or underpaint with acrylics then seal the mini and only then go over it with oils as needed. Oils have some colours that are hard to replicate with acrylics but I don't care about that (I also don't need vantablack on my minis). For me the speed at which they can be used for weathering was impressive but the extra work of switching paints/brushes/process was not worth it.

The one odd weathering medium that I kinda really like is this architects rust medium. It's a two step process. The first is metallic suspension that you apply where you want the rust to be and then an oxidising medium over that to create authentic rust (use separate brushes for those, and also separate from your other paint brushes). I tried googling for it but only got results for rust which wasn't helpful in this context.

Using oils as a final filter or for weathering works really well (and is really fast) then you just have to let them dry. In that way they can be a really nice, quick, and good looking textural bonus on an acrylic airbrush "base" that got a bit refined with acrylic brushwork first.

The thing about oils not drying is most probably about varnishing too quickly. I only know that from canvas painting but oil paints need time to dry. There are drying retarders that also work on minis but the workflow is still different from what we are generally used from painting with acrylics. So it can feel alien. I remember a painter having really interesting oil painting tutorials (on warseer?) about mini painting with oils in general (not just weathering) and that actually made me curious about trying. A somewhat prominent painter at the time (close to two decades ago) with a username that was, I think, related to tortoises in some way. They did a really good job making oils look worth it, even for me while I was trying to simplify my process and not buy a whole new range of paints, thinners, drying retarders, and brushes.

Duncan lines seems to be 10 pots on the picture so not that many for maybe a starter set. I just hope they bring something to the crowded pound.
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.

It could be a way to introduce people to a bit colour theory and mixing while giving people an easy "quasi-subscription" into a line of tutorials. You'd be able to learn from noob tutorials with your own paints (might be a bit more work to get paints that fit the tutorials) or simply buy the noob box at a certain price point (like 15 paints for 30€ or whatever) and get all the colours you need for all the noob tutorials. Same for the other two difficulty levels. Kinda like a service or soft DRM for people who don't mind spending a bit of money, if that comparison makes sense.

Rebranding about 50 paints could hit that spot for people who want to improve but feel overwhelmed by all the choices that are already there and don't know where to start without buying stuff for 100€ and who then can apply that knowledge to other paint ranges once their confidence grows enough until they are willing to make more independent colour choices. And if they are used to his paints then they could keep buying those, especially if they come in a box that's has a bit of a discount over buying them individually.

Something like that would be easier on the inventory (three boxes, nothing more) and give people a reason to buy his paint sets (having tutorials that synergise well with these boxes but don't exclude other paint lines if you are willing to put in a bit of work into colour matching them). That being said, I have no idea how competitive the miniature paint range market is, how much space for another line there is, and at what volume it becomes viable to make a new line. I only know that paints supposedly have a really solid profit margin.
   
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Mario wrote:
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.


All well and good till one of the paints in your box runs out and you have to buy an entire box for that one paint. Individual pot sales are necessary still.

My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/
Currently most played: Kill Team 18, Kings of War, Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action (inc K47), DzC and X-Wing. Dabbling with 40k again and trying AoS3. 
   
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 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Spoiler:
Mario wrote:
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.
All well and good till one of the paints in your box runs out and you have to buy an entire box for that one paint. Individual pot sales are necessary still.
Tell that to HP and other printer manufacturers (although some of them have started implementing continuous ink systems). But yeah, that's a good point.

Generally if you paint one miniature per tutorial then one set of paints should last you long enough for quite a lot of tutorials under normal circumstances and I didn't really conceptualise it further than that. I was trying to imagine some way of making "another line of paints" feel less like needing to buy into a huge system of boxes and individual paints and something very simplified, even if it has downsides. In a way Duncan grew out of the GW ecosystem and when a individual heroes or small squads tends to cost quite a bit then a set of paints at a a similar price point can feel reasonable too.

Making individual paint available would add a bit of complexity (and options) to the imagined system but it would still work with the overall idea of not introducing another 100 paints. That was the main point of the idea: To have a reason to not introduce a huge line of paints and to give people a reason to buy those sets so I ignored these side effects while trying to make an argument for such a pared-down system.
   
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Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







@Mario

I remember when Rackham released them and I was quite curious back then. Looks like I didn't miss much looking at @streetsamurai experience.

The more I dip into into the Oils the more it looks something to have on your arsenal. Found a water soluble Oils range from W&N named artisan too.
The fine artists W&N starters are affordable, so not that much of a big investment to begin with.
What I'm saying is that I doubt anyone in the miniature world could come up with a better formula than W&N and since those are not that expensive to begin with then its a no brainer.
Thanks for the tips and ideas Mario.
Tortoise that rings a bell, for sure, Im from those times too I vaguely remember a celtic rune tortoise avatar... damn my old age all is vague now.

As for Duncan starter sets that could work for the starting up fans but not sure for people who already have a paint range. Lets face it most newcomers will get in introduced by the GW world, already have GW paints and follow GW official tutorials... so Duncan will have to do something special to fish them to his range and tutorials which are not much different from GW's.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The two big downsides for oils for me was the drying time and the chemicals. The drying time is usually not an issue if you're painting a lot of models, because it's not like you're going to be painting an army one day and playing with it the next, waiting a week for things to cure isn't really a huge problem, but I have had the experience where even after a week I've picked up a model and left a finger print on it because it wasn't fully dry.


Regarding drying time, I've been able to dramatically cut this down by using a cheap food dehydrator. I'm able to apply an oil wash, let it dry (few minutes), clean it up, and then pop it in the dehydrator for a few hours at 70C and it comes out cured. It's a little longer for actual layers of oil paint but beats the heck out of waiting over a week for it to slowly cure on its own.

But of course the solvents are another issue entirely. I think good ventilation and PPE are a must, and those are issues that a lot of people seem to face when airbrushes are discussed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 20:06:05


   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Well, that's pretty much what i meant, only it's more detailled and better written


Why? People tend to like having more choices. If he's going to launch his own line of paints, and people already watch him for his painting tips and style, I'd imagine they're going to be curious about trying out said new line of paints if it exists.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


It's a really good point - I subscribe to Duncan's channel, it's only a few quid, I like his stuff, there's enough to make it worthwhile. And frankly he's doing tutorials at the sort of level I'm comfortable with. But I already own tons of Citadel paints. I like the fact that's mostly his focus but if another brand does a particular job better, he'll use that and I might pick it up if I feel like it.

The issue for me is paying for the tutorials, then paying for the paints to do the tutorials. By all means run a business that's a painting line and put out multiple free tutorials a week using those paints in order to sell them. That's a really good way to sell the paints! Or y'know, go for a hybrid model where I buy a box of paint and get a code for a 6-month sub or something like that. Or every month he posts me a new colour as part of my sub... whatever.

But as it stands I'm not really interested in buying another line of paints. Which means I'm probably not going to be interested in continuing to subscribe to the channel. Which ironically is the one thing that would make the paints worthwhile...
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
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[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.

My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/
Currently most played: Kill Team 18, Kings of War, Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action (inc K47), DzC and X-Wing. Dabbling with 40k again and trying AoS3. 
   
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Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.

   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

 techsoldaten wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


GW make their own videos about how to paint their models, their way, with their products. While I haven't paid too much attention to if Duncan only uses GW paints and brushes on GW models, if he were to use an army painter color or brush on their model they could get feisty. Also since they shut down the animator for doing GW IP material because he collected money, how is that any different that Duncan getting money from subscribers for doing his videos. Either he would have to make all the GW ones free, or not do any.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Theophony wrote:
Spoiler:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


GW make their own videos about how to paint their models, their way, with their products. While I haven't paid too much attention to if Duncan only uses GW paints and brushes on GW models, if he were to use an army painter color or brush on their model they could get feisty. Also since they shut down the animator for doing GW IP material because he collected money, how is that any different that Duncan getting money from subscribers for doing his videos. Either he would have to make all the GW ones free, or not do any.

Duncan uses Army Painter brushes and paints.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
 
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