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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 22:33:53
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Veteran Skitarii gain Skirmish Optimisation, which says "Each time an Advance roll is made for this unit, roll one additional D6 and discard one of the dice". The Invocation of Machine Vengeance Canticle, which Mars Skitarii have access to, says "each time an Advance or a charge roll is made for this unit, roll one additional D6 and discard the lowest result". Say I use both of these at the same time and roll a 6, 6, and 1. Can I discard the 1, since it meets the requirements of being one of the dice and the lowest result and thus advance 12", or do I have to discard 2 of the dice?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 22:36:23
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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No, you've only discarded one dice. You have to discard two, one for each rule
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 22:43:57
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Fresh-Faced New User
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That seems to be the obvious and sensible interpretation, but can you elaborate on how discarding the 1 doesn't meet the requirements of both rules? I would have discarded one of the dice, and it also happens to be the lowest. Sorry if I'm being dense here. Maybe my mistake is applying both at once and rolling three dice at once when what's actually happening is rolling two rounds of two dice and discarding one at each stage?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 22:58:58
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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You have two rules saying roll an extra dice and discard one.
Standard Advance is 1D6.
Add your first rule to get to roll 2D6, discard 1.
Add second rule to get to roll 3D6, discard 2 (lowest plus one other).
If you roll 2 extra but discard only 1 you haven’t met all conditions of both rules.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 23:03:41
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Private Jenkins wrote:That seems to be the obvious and sensible interpretation, but can you elaborate on how discarding the 1 doesn't meet the requirements of both rules? I would have discarded one of the dice, and it also happens to be the lowest. Sorry if I'm being dense here. Maybe my mistake is applying both at once and rolling three dice at once when what's actually happening is rolling two rounds of two dice and discarding one at each stage?
Process rule one, to completion. That tells you to discard one dice. Do so
You now have two
Process the second rule, which is the only way you get to discard any dice, and now you have one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/06 23:08:21
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Thanks guys!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/07 04:12:52
Subject: Re:Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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What if i roll three 4s ? I would discard one 4 for skirmish optimisation, and then there is no lowest dice for machine vengeance, both are equal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/07 07:26:19
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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You resolve synchronous effects sequentially
So how it works is I apply effect a
I roll an additional d6 I have two 4's I discard 1 the lowest is a 4 so one dice goes
This leaves me a 4 I apply the second effect roll a 4 I have two 4's I discard 1 the lowest is a 4 so one dice goes
I'm left with a 4
By definition if the value of each die is equal both dice are tied for the lowest value in the pool it makes no difference which you discard your just being contrarian psfreak again
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/07 07:27:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/07 07:35:45
Subject: Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Agree. If all 4s then the lowest value is 4, so discard one of those. Yet another non-problem from p5freak.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/08/07 08:20:05
Subject: Re:Invocation of machine vengeance and Skitarii Veteran Vanguard
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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p5freak wrote:What if i roll three 4s ? I would discard one 4 for skirmish optimisation, and then there is no lowest dice for machine vengeance, both are equal.
Yes, there is a lowest. And a highest. 4 is the lowest value of the set {4,4} and is also the highest value of that set.
A non issue.
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