Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I had a pretty rough friendly game where my Demon/DG opponent had a lot of physic powers which put out a fair few mortals and there was a particular mind control power which meant my Canoness murdered two other characters before getting killed herself. I had the bonus denial sacred rite and I was out of CP on the 4 plus additional. Is there any further countering that. I don’t really see the point in a beat stick Canoness if a generic psyker can do that since I don’t have a counter to it. I ended up burning all my CP just to try stop those smites coming through. Plan was just to throw her at a Greater Demon but could just spend CP elsewhere...

Plus because it was a narrative campaign, you can’t really handwave a Canoness being possessed and killing her own command staff. If the story is about a character and oh yeah they blow their brains out because a generic psyker lucked out and made them kill their own people; it’s not a good twist in the story. At that point you’ve ended the characters story abruptly in a way so embarrassing it ain’t going in the story. I mean I pretty much just talked around it anyway since the Sisters lost big time so they’re out the campaign but it’s going to be really difficult writing about a characters story and getting abruptly wrecked like that.

Also I took a lot of Paragon Warsuits and Iam just not sure how I am supposed to use them. They’re so expensive and there wasn’t really that much shooting coming at them. It’s the fact I am losing out on taking a Repentia or Sacrosanct Squad. Sometimes they did really good and other times just bouncing off things. Like one squad deleted an exalted GUO and another bounced off a Plaguebearer squad; with everything in between.

Like when I say rough it was a two turn game where his whole army charged me turn one and he had four of the six objectives whilst I am pinned behind a wall of Demons. Some very bizarre combinations in the Open War deck. It was one where defender was in middle but had a big deployment zone so he was only twelve away from me. Which meant either concede the entire board for one turn or set up as normal. Like I just wasn’t in control of the game, by the time Seraphim and other stuff arrived game was already pretty much over and we had to call it.

The chances of that power working are extremely low. Are you sure your opponent was playing it correctly? They need to pass a high warp charge and then roll over your leadership too (maybe equal or over? I don't remember offhand) on 2d6. It's like a 1/4 or less chance of it working, the chances of doing it multiple times in a row is virtually nil. And that's before denies. And it can't be cast on your warlord period - was your canoness your warlord? It sounds to me like your opponent was (intentionally or unintentionally) cheating here.

You also have a 1/3 chance to stop any psychic power when you take the sacred right to turn the 6+ deny into a 5+, which you should vs psychic armies. A 33% chance to cause powers to fail is actually quite good, better in many cases than a normal DTW on 2d6.

I'm pretty sure Paragon Warsuits are considered to be a burning pile of dogshit as far as competitive options are concerned.

Sucks because I like the models.

I mean, you get the 5+ Sacred rite which you have the flexibility of choosing before battle and that deny stratagem. That's far more than every other army that doesn't have psykers really gets.

I can tell you it's an absolute pain to play into sisters with a psychic heavy army.

 Sasori wrote:
I mean, you get the 5+ Sacred rite which you have the flexibility of choosing before battle and that deny stratagem. That's far more than every other army that doesn't have psykers really gets.

I can tell you it's an absolute pain to play into sisters with a psychic heavy army.

This right here. Sisters are already great against psykers. So either you just got really unlucky or your opponent was getting his rules wrong, which happens both accidentally and on purpose sometimes.

And as for Paragon Warsuits, competitively they are trash. The current meta is extremely unkind to 4-wound models (particularly if they have poor or no invulnerable saves), especially if they are more than 60 or so points per model. Part of why you don't see a lot of Thunderwolf Cavalry in Space Wolves lists, or Centurions in other Marine lists, and while Attack Bikes are being taken they generally aren't being maxed out on. A pity, as the models are cool and not too hard to magnetize to get full flexibility.

there are a few options already mentioned.

5+ deny sacred rite,
Strategem to deny on a 4+,
Warlord trait for an extra deny and +3 to deny attempts
Custom Order trait for +3 to deny attempts.

Allies: Celexus Assassin, Inquisitor (such as Greyfax)

If you dont mind losing miracle dice and any other punishments from not being mono faction, you could ally in Sisters of silence as well.

As for paragons: like any overpriced vehicle unit, the less target saturation you have the worse they are (if only they had artisan stormbolters QQ)

yukishiro1 wrote:
The chances of that power working are extremely low. Are you sure your opponent was playing it correctly? They need to pass a high warp charge and then roll over your leadership too (maybe equal or over? I don't remember offhand) on 2d6. It's like a 1/4 or less chance of it working, the chances of doing it multiple times in a row is virtually nil. And that's before denies. And it can't be cast on your warlord period - was your canoness your warlord? It sounds to me like your opponent was (intentionally or unintentionally) cheating here.

You also have a 1/3 chance to stop any psychic power when you take the sacred right to turn the 6+ deny into a 5+, which you should vs psychic armies. A 33% chance to cause powers to fail is actually quite good, better in many cases than a normal DTW on 2d6.

Oh yeah we went through all that. He only did it once on the second turn but it was enough to end up killing Canoness, Palatine and a Dogmata. I usually randomly roll the Sacred Rites but actually had the 5 plus anyway but failed all but one test with the auto deny during the game and wasn’t red hit on the 4 plus either and by turn 2 I had no CP. If ten psychic powers are going into you a turn you burn through that CP incredibly fast and the overwatches burnt through the rest. It’s the fact the power exists at all is the issue. It’s like powers that turn things into Spawn and Squigs. It’s funny once on a throw away character or tank.

Ah, she was the Warlord. I’ll have to remember that’s a restriction on the power, think we just missed out on that one. Is it anything with a Warlord trait or your Warlord full stop. That’s good since that’s going to stop Guilliman deleting the back line and I as I said the issue is it wrecks the story. You’re not going in a Penitent Engine for that and I had in mind what would happen if the character lost badly; but not that. It’s a very humiliating way for the character to go down and it’s a weird one because they’ve won every battle up to that point. But I don’t want things to be a stalemate and it should be all to play for so I kind of feel a loss like that should just be the faction out the campaign. In hindsight I probably shouldn’t have decided to focus on the Warlord but I figured it would be win, lose or death. Not kill a load of your own soldiers and then get killed by them.

Yeah I d thought 12 Paragons wouldn’t be the most efficient setup. But I really wanted to give it a go. To be fair, I think there was a lot going wrong there. I should have set up on the very back line and set up all my objectives in my deployment zone. It was a very weird deployment zone which dictated the battle a lot. Realistically we just are not good timing wise with these games so they only last two turns anyway most games so we’ve had to call quite a few for timing reasons. Plus I think I need to move away from the big Seraphim reserve because losing angelic descent on meltapistols means they don’t do anything for two turns so they literally landed and couldn’t go anywhere since board was covered in demons. Think the score was 7 - 5 at end of turn 2 but there really wasn’t anything left of my army and he still had stuff to come in. When I go back to the Sisters I think I’ll go back to the older setup and replace the Melta Seraphim with some Sacrosancts.

But yeah it did not feel like an anti psychic army.

But the avarge SoB army is in melee turn 1-2, so burning CPs for 2 turns shouldn't be a problem. Specially if you go first. Seems like a list build issue and not a psychic power one. SoB swarm enough and are more then fast enough for psychic powers to turn the tides of games. And I don't think there 10 different psychic powers one can cast to kill 3 separate characters while there are other units in the way. To make it happen the shoting of the opposing army would have to be incredible.

Karol wrote:
But the avarge SoB army is in melee turn 1-2, so burning CPs for 2 turns shouldn't be a problem. Specially if you go first. Seems like a list build issue and not a psychic power one. SoB swarm enough and are more then fast enough for psychic powers to turn the tides of games. And I don't think there 10 different psychic powers one can cast to kill 3 separate characters while there are other units in the way. To make it happen the shoting of the opposing army would have to be incredible.

He had first turn, so the Demons and DG charged the army. I didn’t want to hand all the board control over by setting up on my very back line and assumed the game would last more than two turns.

That particular army is built around shooting. Lots of flamers and melta guns. Martyred Lady, not Bloody Rose. Really did not want to be charged because he’s going first and I lose out on a ton of shooting.

He killed three characters because mind control on the Canoness. My Canoness then killed a Palatine and Dogmata before being killed by Paragon Warsuits in turn 2.

In terms of psychic powers you had an empowered GUO, an empowered KoS, a DG sorcerer and two heralds one Tzeentch and another Nurgle. I started with 12CP and half went on psychic deny stuff with the other half going on overwatch in turn 1.

Don't play Martyred Lady. Don't take the suits, unless GW gives them a +4inv and drops the cost 10pts.

And going second can suck, can't really do much about that.

If this gets repeated over multiple games, then options are of three kind. Either it is the list or it is you. Changing you is hard, changing list is, technically, easier. if it is a combo of both well then not much can be done. And I know that from personal expiriance.

Keep your army composition and learn it's rules and how to wield it properly.

From your report it sounds both of you got rules wrong in addition to playing poorly to the mission itself.

You have the best army around to counter psykers, but you still can only use every stratagem once per phase. You can't run out of CP in one round by using the 4+ deny.

If you expect a first turn charge, you need to learn how to screen properly.

Just because they can, doesn't mean you always have to put your deepstrikers into Deepstrike. I see this alot at the local club. People do this every_single_time because the unit can do it without thinking what they realistically can achieve by doing so.

When the enemy starts 12" away from you, what do you get by putting them into deepstrike? Just a unit that you payed points for that isn't doing anything guaranteed for one turn and then a bit of shooting and probably no melee.

You didn't lose because your army was sub-par, you lost because your gameplan and rules knowledge was.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Karol wrote:
But the avarge SoB army is in melee turn 1-2, so burning CPs for 2 turns shouldn't be a problem. Specially if you go first. Seems like a list build issue and not a psychic power one. SoB swarm enough and are more then fast enough for psychic powers to turn the tides of games. And I don't think there 10 different psychic powers one can cast to kill 3 separate characters while there are other units in the way. To make it happen the shoting of the opposing army would have to be incredible.

He had first turn, so the Demons and DG charged the army. I didn’t want to hand all the board control over by setting up on my very back line and assumed the game would last more than two turns.

That particular army is built around shooting. Lots of flamers and melta guns. Martyred Lady, not Bloody Rose. Really did not want to be charged because he’s going first and I lose out on a ton of shooting.

He killed three characters because mind control on the Canoness. My Canoness then killed a Palatine and Dogmata before being killed by Paragon Warsuits in turn 2.

In terms of psychic powers you had an empowered GUO, an empowered KoS, a DG sorcerer and two heralds one Tzeentch and another Nurgle. I started with 12CP and half went on psychic deny stuff with the other half going on overwatch in turn 1.

Wait... I'm quite sure that you are playing that power very wrongly.
First of all as has already been said, it doesn't work on the warlord.
Second, you make it sound like it lasted more than one turn. That power makes you shoot and fight with a character once and then ends. It lasts only for his turn, once it is your turn, you have the control of it again.

Spoletta wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Karol wrote:
But the avarge SoB army is in melee turn 1-2, so burning CPs for 2 turns shouldn't be a problem. Specially if you go first. Seems like a list build issue and not a psychic power one. SoB swarm enough and are more then fast enough for psychic powers to turn the tides of games. And I don't think there 10 different psychic powers one can cast to kill 3 separate characters while there are other units in the way. To make it happen the shoting of the opposing army would have to be incredible.

He had first turn, so the Demons and DG charged the army. I didn’t want to hand all the board control over by setting up on my very back line and assumed the game would last more than two turns.

That particular army is built around shooting. Lots of flamers and melta guns. Martyred Lady, not Bloody Rose. Really did not want to be charged because he’s going first and I lose out on a ton of shooting.

He killed three characters because mind control on the Canoness. My Canoness then killed a Palatine and Dogmata before being killed by Paragon Warsuits in turn 2.

In terms of psychic powers you had an empowered GUO, an empowered KoS, a DG sorcerer and two heralds one Tzeentch and another Nurgle. I started with 12CP and half went on psychic deny stuff with the other half going on overwatch in turn 1.

Wait... I'm quite sure that you are playing that power very wrongly.
First of all as has already been said, it doesn't work on the warlord.
Second, you make it sound like it lasted more than one turn. That power makes you shoot and fight with a character once and then ends. It lasts only for his turn, once it is your turn, you have the control of it again.

Oh it was absolutely one turn that the damage happened. Believe me if he had been able to do that for multiple turns he’d have done a lot more damage. The whole game only lasted two turns so there wasn’t another chance for that nonesense. We didn’t realise there was a restriction on the Warlord.

The Herald of Tzeentch cast the power, she then shot an inferno pistol at the Dogmata which she tanked with an invulnerable. He then charged the Canoness into the Dogmata and a Palatine killing both with two attacks each. Then the character consolidated into a nearby Paragon warsuit squad who killed the Canoness in their “initiative step”. He only needed one turn to do that kind of damage. As I understand it you can’t choose not to attack an enemy unit in close combat so I had to kill the Canoness.

So it literally couldn't happen because your opponent was (unintentionally) cheating, and even so, the chances of all that were like 1 in 100 (passing the power, not being denied, rolling over leadership, rolling perfectly on every attack, etc), and even so, only because you had set up your models in a very specific way - all three characters within 1" of one another so that the canoness could charge both of the other two, and within 3" of a paragon squad that was then the closest unit , that enabled it.

You can also only use each strat once per phase, so you cannot have used all your CP on the deny strat and overwatch (and even if you could, you would not have wanted to).

In the gentlest possible way...I wouldn't take any conclusions from this about the game overall. It sounds like the best way you and your opponent can improve your game experience is to get a better grip on the way the rules work.

I have to agree. It seems you are worrying too much about something that can't happen. Then next time your opponent cast Treason of Tzeentch on you, you know it can't target your Warlord Canoness. That means it is either the Dogmata or the Palatine. Both of those models will have a tough time killing each other in the Fight phase with no chance of killing any character in the Shooting phase. Should they get a lucky set of attacks, you can always use Miracle Dice to get in a critical save to keep the model alive or even resurrect with Divine Intervention.

And that all assumes they managed to cast, avoid your Deny the Witch, dodge Purity of Faith, and then roll over your Leadership 8 on 2d6. Heck, if they pass that gauntlet they deserve a little something in return for the effort.

yukishiro1 wrote:
So it literally couldn't happen because your opponent was (unintentionally) cheating, and even so, the chances of all that were like 1 in 100 (passing the power, not being denied, rolling over leadership, rolling perfectly on every attack, etc), and even so, only because you had set up your models in a very specific way - all three characters within 1" of one another so that the canoness could charge both of the other two, and within 3" of a paragon squad that was then the closest unit , that enabled it.

You can also only use each strat once per phase, so you cannot have used all your CP on the deny strat and overwatch (and even if you could, you would not have wanted to).

In the gentlest possible way...I wouldn't take any conclusions from this about the game overall. It sounds like the best way you and your opponent can improve your game experience is to get a better grip on the way the rules work.

Rerolling hit and wound with a tooled up sacred blade it’s not that surprising both characters went down.

I thought the restriction for one strat a turn was matched play only? We don’t do matched play.

Why wouldn’t I want to use overwatch with flamer heavy squads? I figured they would die if the numbers weren’t thinned. As for psychic, I certainly wanted to save my CP for all the high damage stuff but I failed all my deny rolls and the army couldn’t take all those mortal wounds and debuffs on top of being a combat army and really tough. If it was MW on normal Sisters of Battle fine I’ve got fifty of them and you won’t get to the ones with real guns,, but not when you’re talking about shredding the Paragon Warsuits. I d been up all night painting those warsuits up so I was very keen they not all get minced turn one by psychic powers.

The characters were together so their auras could boost the various units around them. You don’t plan for being charged by your own characters; was more concerned about keeping them from being charged by the enemy hence being behind Paragons and Celestians which had been taking brunt of the damage. If I split them up you wouldn’t be getting those aura benefits if I was spacing them more than twelve away to prevent them being charged. If I wasn’t getting the buffs where I need them I wouldn’t be wasting power on the units and just take more dakka.

They weren’t all within one. You had to roll a charge roll to get into combat with either character.

My takeaways are -

- Paragons are out. PE are much better for a fraction of the cost and they’re just a massive liability. I shouldn’t be burning through CP to compensate for how fragile the unit is.
- Melta Seraphim are out. I have multimeltas and don’t have to wait until turn 3 to use them.
- Need to be massively more cagey with those objectives and take advantage of that.
- Need to premeasure to make sure I am out of charge range of everything turn 1. I need at least one good turn of shooting to thin the horde.
- Less CP wasted on buff characters and combat characters. A combat Canoness who never gets into combat is basically a paperweight. Can put that on more dakka or Repentia.
- I think the army needs a lot more work so I am probably shelving the army for now until I’ve got more infantry to pad the army out. Going to need build and paint up a lot more stuff to rebalance everything. Just use Ultramarines and Grey Knights instead.








5 GK Terminators as a one off detachment.

Paragon warsuits are actually not that bad.
They are not GT material, but they work well in less competitive environments.
You need to play them in a very specific way though. Very defensive on the first turns, using them as dedicated shooting units, and then have them join the fight around turn 3, when you have removed most sources of high damage attacks. If the opponent doesn't have big weapons to take care of them, those suits actually become scary.

 alextroy wrote:
I have to agree. It seems you are worrying too much about something that can't happen. Then next time your opponent cast Treason of Tzeentch on you, you know it can't target your Warlord Canoness. That means it is either the Dogmata or the Palatine. Both of those models will have a tough time killing each other in the Fight phase with no chance of killing any character in the Shooting phase. Should they get a lucky set of attacks, you can always use Miracle Dice to get in a critical save to keep the model alive or even resurrect with Divine Intervention.

And that all assumes they managed to cast, avoid your Deny the Witch, dodge Purity of Faith, and then roll over your Leadership 8 on 2d6. Heck, if they pass that gauntlet they deserve a little something in return for the effort.

Yeah my miracle dice were not on form.

Looking at my Grey Knight Codex I don’t think psychic powers are properly costed. I basically get really good units and on top of that get massive buffs and damage from psychic for which you’d normally need to sink additional power into Chaplains and other buff characters. It’s free stuff.

I mean that power specifically is horrendous because it’s a way of sniping characters for very low cost and risk. You can just turn a character and then all the units around them are compelled to kill the character. I can’t pay three power for the chance to murder your back line characters; be quite nice if I did. Also, it’s not like Magnus doing that, it’s a generic demon Psyker being able to mind control an Emperors Champion or a Chapter Master. It’s a power that’s meant to be used so a Guard Sergeant chops off one of their troopers with a chainsword; not mind controlling really dangerous characters that in the lore are probably never going to be mind controlled by a lesser demon. I can put that CP elsewhere and just get max shots on flamers or all that nonsense. It was a narrative game where that Canoness was meant to go up against a Greater Daemon with a load of Paragon Warsuits. Fine with the character dying. Not okay with a cheap move that literally ruins the character. That CP could go on far more brutal things and i could just have given her a Chainsword and be a re-roll one token. Perhaps I should just concede the point and just do that instead.

But yeah, I think this army needs to go back to the drawing board and needs to trim the fat. I’ve tried the combat canoness a few times and just haven’t got the use out of them and it’s not even been remotely enjoyable. By the time close combat happens battles usually over and its just a lot of dancing around psychic/shooting sniping because it’s super dangerous. I think next campaign I am going to make it much more about the Order as a whole rather than individuals. The game really doesn’t lend itself towards narrative with dumb psychic powers like that in. Generic chainsword Canoness dies another one shows up.

I've been playing Tzeentch for quite some time and never seen somebody so fearful over Treason... The damned thing never goes off, especially once you exclude the warlord very few armies have characters worth stealing that also are low enough leadership for it to succeed. If your opponent had cast Infernal Gateway they would've done 3d3 mortals in the same situation with one less failure point than Treason.

Spoletta wrote:
Paragon warsuits are actually not that bad.
They are not GT material, but they work well in less competitive environments.
You need to play them in a very specific way though. Very defensive on the first turns, using them as dedicated shooting units, and then have them join the fight around turn 3, when you have removed most sources of high damage attacks. If the opponent doesn't have big weapons to take care of them, those suits actually become scary.

Yeah I dunno. Perhaps I should have put the suits behind the chaff Sisters squads instead of spreading them in a chequerboard in the line. I just was not expecting to get charged turn 1 by everything. I was just very reluctant to deploy on my back line and concede the whole board in an objective game. The rough plan was weather the charge, withdraw, blast him and then my reserves come in turn two and sweep the table. By which point the objectives would tilt back in my favour. So the plan assumed the game would be longer than two turns.

I mean there wasn’t a turn three. We started late, had a tea break and it was midnight so we called it. We’ve both agreed we need to do much smaller games because it’s getting absurd. Either the games are super lethal and he concedes in the early game or it goes on and we have to call it because of time and other commitments.

Here’s the thing. The Warsuits did kill some things but they kept bouncing far too often. Turn one they didn’t manage to blow up a plague drone with multimeltas. It took them four rounds of close combat to kill three Deathshroud and some spawn. A two unit bounced off a Plaguebearers. Squad and only killed two of them. The most impressive thing they did was shoot and then charge a GUO to kill him. But with an interupt and some toxic blood thing that cost all but one of the suits to do. It’s like what else could I get for that 52 power? Double my compliment of Sisters and Retributors. Get three squads of Repentia in rhinos. It’s being taxed for the coolness factor which I thought I could get away with on the Daemons.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

I thought the restriction for one strat a turn was matched play only? We don’t do matched play.

It used to be a matched play restriction back in 8th edition, but in 9th edition it's just part of the rules for using stratagems.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I've been playing Tzeentch for quite some time and never seen somebody so fearful over Treason... The damned thing never goes off, especially once you exclude the warlord very few armies have characters worth stealing that also are low enough leadership for it to succeed. If your opponent had cast Infernal Gateway they would've done 3d3 mortals in the same situation with one less failure point than Treason.

Oh yeah, I am not taking combat characters against Daemons. You have to pay a lot to get these buffs and Iam not seeing the benefit for the cost anyway. Add to that, for the beat stick Canoness she just gets ignored and there’s a lot attempts to snipe her with psychic and shooting. If you’re sinking a lot of CP and relics I can just put that elsewhere and probably get a lot more out of it. The fact the powers exists is enough to do a double take and so I ll just have them be an aura token and a HQ tax.

I think he mentioned that power. Not sure if it went off or not. He might have went with that one first turn but he really wanted my Canoness and buff characters off the board. Kind of pointless since the castle they were buffing was dead apart from two Paragons.

But yeah I think I am going to get another two full retributornsquads one with heavy flamers and another with heavy bolters. Build and paint ten Sacrosancts. Then another twenty basic sisters. Get rid of the Paragons and characters; just start blasting.

52 power?? How many suits are you playing exactly??

A squad of 3 is more than enough, more than that and they simply stop working!

Spoletta wrote:
52 power?? How many suits are you playing exactly??

A squad of 3 is more than enough, more than that and they simply stop working!

12 Paragon Warsuits

It was a narrative game and I wanted the host of Nundams. I had used six in a previous game against Eldar and they were a bit underwhelming with one squad getting shredded by some Wraithblades.

Well, no wonder you are having issues. 12 nundams are half an army, that's way too skewed.

you keep saying it was a narrative game and refer to a story you want to tell. What was the story for DG showing up with TZ daemons?
Why where there 2 Greater Daemons?
For me it sound like you ran with a casual/themed/Story list into a power list, rolled bad and also unfortunately the daemon list was a counter to your list.
So more a communication/expectation issue then a power issue of the army

 Fwlshadowalker wrote:
you keep saying it was a narrative game and refer to a story you want to tell. What was the story for DG showing up with TZ daemons?
Why where there 2 Greater Daemons?
For me it sound like you ran with a casual/themed/Story list into a power list, rolled bad and also unfortunately the daemon list was a counter to your list.
So more a communication/expectation issue then a power issue of the army

The Campaign is about a Black Legion Warlord invading an Imperial System. So lots of armies involved and he sent the DG to help out the Demons who are more or less on the same page about fighting the Imperials. They aren’t at the point of fighting eachother because that was them with their backs against the wall. Very much full Chaos invasion.

They had this Demon portal on one of the secondary worlds which the Sisters were going to either drive them off entirely or die in the attempt. I was never really keen on a perpetual stalemate and we were at the end of Act 2. I could have just said, oh they just fail to drive them off but I’ve won every battle up to that point so…round 2; that just didn’t feel right. So in my head the character would either go down as a doomed martyr or win and then rejoin the main fight.

Instead, the power involved means even if the character did survive she’d probably blow her brains out. Losing and surviving means going to the Repentia, not being possessed and butchering your entire command staff. Like if she’d lost badly and survived I was going to have her exiled to the world that’s going to be in the next campaign. It’s too embarrassing having to explain that some random generic herald just mind controls a character and makes them kill their entire command staff. It’s just dumb.

So yeah I think the next campaign I need to make it much less character focused. If generic Canoness dies another one materialises from the ether. So if they get turned into squig or spawn I can just ignore that nonsense in the story.

Oh I’ve fought that demon army many times before. The only new stuff was the Deathguard and he had forty as opposed to twenty plague bearers. However I assumed I’d get a single turn of shooting at least and then my reserves come in and do stuff turn 2. Instead it’s a turn 2 game where I got charged in the first turn and had brought subpar units.

It was three Greater Daemons but the Bloodthirster didn’t need to show up. He’s building the army up into an all God army.

Plus I got be honest. I don’t think my mate likes playing against the Sisters. I think he’d much rather the focus be on the other Imperial armies and he’s told me pretty directly they’re an overpowered army and he doesn’t like playing them. Like he’s usually pretty hyped when it’s Ultramarines/Raptors/Genecult/Custodes and he’s very encouraging about those factions and characters but not really them at all. So I am having doubts even putting Sisters in the next campaign which is going to be his Orks vs Imperials.

Yeah, I didn't read the whole wall of text, but if you're having problems against a psyker army, that's 100% something you fethed up.

Sisters have more tools to stop psykers than any other army in the game. With good positioning and a priest, for 1 CP you can shut off an entire psychic phase with the immune to psychic powers prayer.

ERJAK wrote:
Yeah, I didn't read the whole wall of text, but if you're having problems against a psyker army, that's 100% something you fethed up.

Sisters have more tools to stop psykers than any other army in the game. With good positioning and a priest, for 1 CP you can shut off an entire psychic phase with the immune to psychic powers prayer.

Can you cast a prayer in your opponents turn, when he’s going first and is eighteen away from you?

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Yeah, I didn't read the whole wall of text, but if you're having problems against a psyker army, that's 100% something you fethed up.

Sisters have more tools to stop psykers than any other army in the game. With good positioning and a priest, for 1 CP you can shut off an entire psychic phase with the immune to psychic powers prayer.

Can you cast a prayer in your opponents turn, when he’s going first and is eighteen away from you?

If it’s like SM litanies… yes.

It’s at the start of the battle round, not your turn.