Games Workshop Statement Against Hate

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Oguhmek**

Agreed, it's good that they make a clear stance on this, there are some bad actors involved in this hobby.

A personal anecdote: when they released the previous "Warhammer is for Everyone" statement I reblogged it on my Instagram feed, and was immediately unfollowed by a handful of people. Good riddance I say, but it shows that there are definitely toxic elements out there.

**Chopstick**

What is symbol of real world hate-group? no guideline at all, can literally be anything.

**Rihgu**

Chopstick wrote:
What is symbol of real world hate-group? no guideline at all, can literally be anything.

There are databases that you can reference for these things, if you're really not sure.

**Crimson**

It is great thing that they have made such statement and are taking the issue seriously.

But Bosskelot certainly has a point. I've been cringing for the direction of the lore for similar reasons for quite a while. Course correction on that department would be welcome.

**Miguelsan**

Las wrote:
Was the Spanish tournament where that happened an official Games Workshop event?

No, it was under the management of a local club with the support of a shop and the city hall supplying the venue. GW didn't have anything to do with the tournament.

M.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Chopstick wrote:
What is symbol of real world hate-group? no guideline at all, can literally be anything.

Nazi Swastika comes to mind.
There is a possibility that the swastika bearer could be a Buddhist, but if uses red, black and white Buddhism probably is not involved.

**jim30**

Having been to historical tournaments where people turned up with Nazi themed armies and dressed wearing Nazi medals, hats and t-shirts (and then ragequit when people complained and asked them to tone it down), I welcome this statement.

Its a shame that in the 21st century we have to see statements made reminding people not to dress like a Nazi, but helpful. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realise that its not a cool thing to do.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

Good on them for criticizing hateful people.

I think GW are in a bit of a bind though. They say their game is a satire, yet as others have pointed out, they simultaneously glorify the agents of the imperium as a means to sell models. So we're told on the one hand, that the harshness and brutality of the imperium is a satire, yet space marines are glorious heroes that little boys should idolize.

So which is it? Are the space marines heroes of righteous values or are they agents of a dark and bigoted regime that the game is satirizing?

**JWBS**

How about a third option.

**Mentlegen324**

It's good for them to outright say how bad the Imperium is and what they're meant to be. I've seen a lot of people try to defend and justify their actions as "necessary", which is just a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Imperium is meant to be. They're the worst possible outcome, not the best.

**Cronch**

They're glorified servants of a bigoted regime?

But yeah, GW (perhaps unintentionaly, merely by not reining in the...enthusiasm of some writers) have been hyping up Imperium for a while, good to see them put the subtext into TEXT for once on where they stand.
As to cynicism of corporate morals, corporations very rarely lead the fight on social issues, but it never hurts when they throw in their support.

**GaroRobe**

I mean, isn't it meant to be like in-world propaganda? In-universe, people are often horrified to meet real space marines.

**Nurglitch**

Given that Imperium lost the Horus Heresy to the Chaos Gods, it makes sense that it's the worst of all possible worlds.

**Albertorius**

Bosskelot wrote:
xttz wrote:
Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

You need to read the new BT rulebook

The Black Templars' weapons and wargear are as ornate as they are brutal. Their armoured forms are festooned with symbolic chains, grotesque memento mori and the fluttering parchment of crusader seals. Their scarred faces bear permanent scowls of intolerance and hatred. These are not saviours, not the shining heroes of Imperial legend. Rather, they are destroyers, wrathful warrior knights whose blood-drenched wars of faith rage from one end of the Imperium to the other.

It's full of stuff like this.

That's cool.

Does any of that apply to any other chapters? People still think the Salamanders are good guys because they have some vague restraint when causing civilian casualties to Imperial citizens.

I'm not being facetious btw, it's legitimately good that GW didn't go the usual modern route with the BT book especially with how the BT themselves can end up attracting the worst of the worst as fans. But the same issues still exist; the BT are portrayed as evil because of their religious fanaticism and not because Space Marines in general are inherently kind of evil and not a good thing.

You mean the Angels of Death? The most brutally effective enforcers of the rule of the dead emperor? Well now.

**Skinnereal**

jim30 wrote:
Its a shame that in the 21st century we have to see statements made reminding people not to dress like a Nazi, but helpful. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realise that its not a cool thing to do.

It's probably similar to the quote: "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".
If you don't stand up every time you see it, it will keep happening.

**Albertorius**

Las wrote:
Was the Spanish tournament where that happened an official Games Workshop event?

In the sense that's the biggest team tournament in the world and endorsed by GW, yes. But it's not managed by GW. It's a GT, after all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chopstick wrote:
What is symbol of real world hate-group? no guideline at all, can literally be anything.

Given how fast hate groups adopt or suborn symbols, that's kind of a good thing.

**Nazrak**

Chopstick wrote:
What is symbol of real world hate-group? no guideline at all, can literally be anything.

On the off chance you're actually asking this question in good faith, there are numerous reputable sources for this stuff, and it's fairly easy to work out an answer if you're willing to do a bit of research and mental legwork.

**The_Real_Chris**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Don't look under your bed, corporations are hiding there to steal your teeth.

You say that in a time where you pretty much own nothing, because everything is rented from corporations, you are bombarded with ads every step of the way and you have 0 privacy because all your data is constantly being peddled around by corporations to each other.

Your teeth might be all that you truly own soon.

I can imagine implants coming with a compulsory lifetime service contract that results in repossession if not met...

**Caradman Sturnn**

While I understand the reason behind the statement, completely.. I am somewhat irritated by the mainstream culture's obessesion with concept of 'hate' as though it were something completely alien and unnatural. Hate is just one of the many emotions on the pallet of any human, and experiencing feelings of hatred is a perfectly legitimate reaction in a number of situations.

Regardless, I feel we must caution against the practice of using broad terms as a generic label to disqualify one's opponenents.

Again, this does not relate to GW's reaction in this specific case, which I wholly support.

**The_Real_Chris**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
So we're told on the one hand, that the harshness and brutality of the imperium is a satire, yet space marines are glorious heroes that little boys should idolize.

So which is it? Are the space marines heroes of righteous values or are they agents of a dark and bigoted regime that the game is satirizing?

I have always seen them as equal opportunity destroyers and repressors...

And in some ways it is an enlightened future. As long as you are a baseline human without psychic powers or other mutations you are mistreated on the basis of how much wealth, influence and power you have. Gender, race, sexuality, amount of cybernetic parts, age, none of that comes into it. Not that is that is a satire of any countries in the world of course and what they aspire to.

**spiralingcadaver**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Big Corporation does the bare minimum to pay lip service to the currently dominant ideology to ensure maximum profits.

Been this way as long as corporations existed.

Care to explain?

Corporations don't care about anything but the money, so they always do everything to pretend to support whatever the dominant ideology is where they want to sell stuff. Leftist ideologies are currently dominant among GW's target audience, so GW pretends to cater to them.

You can see this everywhere, from Disney removing gay kisses in China, to Blizzard simultenously supporting protests in the USA and Chineese government cracking down on protestors and minorities.

If fascism was dominant in the west (let's be honest, that's where Warhammer is most popular), GW would relase a statement about how homosexuals aren't allowed in their shops. The CEO is a old white dude that worked all his life in sales and marketing, don't trust a word corporations say. Because fundamentally it's all smoke and mirrors to distract from their endless greed.

Yep, there are certainly outliers, like I feel like the Penzeys Spices guy would continue to give off ex-hippie vibes, and Musk and company would continue to be technocratic caricatures of like robber barons, and a number towards the edges would continue to lean either way, but I wouldn't put it past most of the middle.

**JWBS**

Yeah I always found it kinda bizarre that the people who claim to be most stridently against hate are so often very obviously consumed by it themselves, but intense hypocrisy is ofc nothing new.

**CthuluIsSpy**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

So which is it? Are the space marines heroes of righteous values or are they agents of a dark and bigoted regime that the game is satirizing?

Both, I think.
You have Salamanders and Ultramarines, which are supposed to be paragons of virtue.
And then you have Minotaurs and Marines Malevolent which are absolute spankers.

Personally I'd preferred if they went back to Marines being Not-Saudarkars and be vicious killing machines (like in RT, I think?), but it seems GW wanted to theme them somewhat after chivalric warrior monks.

**Wha-Mu-077**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

So which is it? Are the space marines heroes of righteous values or are they agents of a dark and bigoted regime that the game is satirizing?

Both, I think.
You have Salamanders and Ultramarines, which are supposed to be paragons of virtue.

-you mean the xenophobic, genociding child-killers and the Space SS?

**Nurglitch**

You can have the in-universe propaganda be at odds with the in-universe reality of the situation. Probably should, if you're doing satire.

Incidentally, chivalric warrior monks were a bunch of bastards, historically.

**Londinium**

Bosskelot wrote:
I
The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

Guilliman has been blonde haired and blue eyed since the 90s. If you think his return to the Imperium was designed as some kind of endorsement of Trumpism then you need to seriously reconsider how much you're looking into things and lighten up a bit. Also while the Ultras aren't exactly 'good' by todays standards, they're one of the more acceptable faces of the Imperium - if everyone was evil grimdark all the time, 40k would have remained niche to this day, you can't support an IP with everyone walking around like Rorschach on a bad day.

Anyway Trump isnt even white, he's orange.

**Cronch**

JWBS wrote:
Yeah I always found it kinda bizarre that the people who claim to be most stridently against hate are so often very obviously consumed by it themselves, but intense hypocrisy is ofc nothing new.

BoTh SidES aM i RiGhT?!

**Laughing Man**

Londinium wrote:
Bosskelot wrote:
I
The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

Guilliman has been blonde haired and blue eyed since the 90s. If you think his return to the Imperium was designed as some kind of endorsement of Trumpism then you need to seriously reconsider how much you're looking into things and lighten up a bit.

Hell Trump isnt even white, he's orange.

Didn't stop his fans from latching on to it as some sort of weird endorsement. Pretty sure the comment is less about intent, and more about impact, and I've seen enough Trump-Emperor and Trump-girlyman memes to last a lifetime.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

So which is it? Are the space marines heroes of righteous values or are they agents of a dark and bigoted regime that the game is satirizing?

Both, I think.
You have Salamanders and Ultramarines, which are supposed to be paragons of virtue.

-you mean the xenophobic, genociding child-killers and the Space SS?

No I mean the chapters that treat their civilian populace well, to the point that Salamanders like to hang out with Nocturnians (Nocturans? People who live on Nocturne).
Since when were Ultramarines space SS?

**spiralingcadaver**

Londinium wrote:
Bosskelot wrote:
I
The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

Guilliman has been blonde haired and blue eyed since the 90s. If you think his return to the Imperium was designed as some kind of endorsement of Trumpism then you need to seriously reconsider how much you're looking into things and lighten up a bit.

Hell Trump isnt even white, he's orange.

I think the point was bad timing to bring in a character/narrative which could easily speak to a fascist aesthetic.