Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/

So Games Workshop has posted a statement against hate, again. Does anybody know if there is something current that has prompted them to do it, or is it just about the ongoing toxification of internet (and other) cultures?

The statement itself is very well written for GW standards. While it is a sad affair if they feel the need to point out that their 40k setting is satirical, it might actually be necessary. However, explaining something like this feels a bit like when you have to explain the punchline of a joke.

Probably this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/801907.page

Especially because of this

If you come to a Games Workshop event or store and behave to the contrary, including wearing the symbols of real-world hate groups, you will be asked to leave. We won’t let you participate. We don’t want your money. We don’t want you in the Warhammer community.

Hm, i'm half tempted to say someone saw that Spanish tournament thread on here. Or heard about it some other way. Either way it's a good statement.

 Overread wrote:
Probably this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/801907.page

Especially because of this

If you come to a Games Workshop event or store and behave to the contrary, including wearing the symbols of real-world hate groups, you will be asked to leave. We won’t let you participate. We don’t want your money. We don’t want you in the Warhammer community.

Thank you. Makes sense. As I'm not into tournaments, I did not notice that.

It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

And then the entire plot thrust of trying to return the Imperium to "greatness" and the call to nationalistic nostalgia is never treated with any kind of criticism. Just look at subreddit's like r/40klore and how people bemoan the loss of the 30k Imperium; despite it functionally being the exact same as the one 10,000 years later, just a little bit more efficient at weaponizing its monstrous evil and pretending it isn't religious. (despite the entire structure and enforcement of the Imperial Truth aping all of the worst aspects of organized religion completely)

So, GW can say this all it wants. But everything about the way it markets and presents its flagship IP does not reflect this statement and in fact further reinforces, emboldens and encourages the reactionary right-wing chuds like the Neo-Nazi at that Spanish tournament.

If they had any actual bravery whatsoever they'd actually start to present characters like Guilliman and Marines in general as the horrible monsters and giant pieces of gak they actually are, if only just a little. They did it many years ago.

Good on GW for posting this.

Good Job GW

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

And then the entire plot thrust of trying to return the Imperium to "greatness" and the call to nationalistic nostalgia is never treated with any kind of criticism. Just look at subreddit's like r/40klore and how people bemoan the loss of the 30k Imperium; despite it functionally being the exact same as the one 10,000 years later, just a little bit more efficient at weaponizing its monstrous evil and pretending it isn't religious. (despite the entire structure and enforcement of the Imperial Truth aping all of the worst aspects of organized religion completely)

So, GW can say this all it wants. But everything about the way it markets and presents its flagship IP does not reflect this statement and in fact further reinforces, emboldens and encourages the reactionary right-wing chuds like the Neo-Nazi at that Spanish tournament.

If they had any actual bravery whatsoever they'd actually start to present characters like Guilliman and Marines in general as the horrible monsters and giant pieces of gak they actually are, if only just a little. They did it many years ago.

To be fair, the way the Emperor is presented in the Siege of Terra books is not like this at all. There are plenty of in universe people (that aren't Chaosified) criticising what he's done.

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

And then the entire plot thrust of trying to return the Imperium to "greatness" and the call to nationalistic nostalgia is never treated with any kind of criticism. Just look at subreddit's like r/40klore and how people bemoan the loss of the 30k Imperium; despite it functionally being the exact same as the one 10,000 years later, just a little bit more efficient at weaponizing its monstrous evil and pretending it isn't religious. (despite the entire structure and enforcement of the Imperial Truth aping all of the worst aspects of organized religion completely)

So, GW can say this all it wants. But everything about the way it markets and presents its flagship IP does not reflect this statement and in fact further reinforces, emboldens and encourages the reactionary right-wing chuds like the Neo-Nazi at that Spanish tournament.

If they had any actual bravery whatsoever they'd actually start to present characters like Guilliman and Marines in general as the horrible monsters and giant pieces of gak they actually are, if only just a little. They did it many years ago.

From what I've heard, the new Black Templar book goes very far and does a good job to portray them as "obviously the bad guys". Haven't seen it myself, but that's what people are saying about it.

Considering GW are actively asking the community to help with clamping down on this behaviour, the mods on here also do their part and start taking a more heavy handed approach to specific posters who evidently support or try to defend such persons.

It's obvious the posters I am talking about, it's meant to be obvious without actually naming them.

Big Corporation does the bare minimum to pay lip service to the currently dominant ideology to ensure maximum profits.

Been this way as long as corporations existed.

prefer to remove this comment for my own integrity hehe...

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Big Corporation does the bare minimum to pay lip service to the currently dominant ideology to ensure maximum profits.

Been this way as long as corporations existed.

Care to explain?

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

And then the entire plot thrust of trying to return the Imperium to "greatness" and the call to nationalistic nostalgia is never treated with any kind of criticism. Just look at subreddit's like r/40klore and how people bemoan the loss of the 30k Imperium; despite it functionally being the exact same as the one 10,000 years later, just a little bit more efficient at weaponizing its monstrous evil and pretending it isn't religious. (despite the entire structure and enforcement of the Imperial Truth aping all of the worst aspects of organized religion completely)

So, GW can say this all it wants. But everything about the way it markets and presents its flagship IP does not reflect this statement and in fact further reinforces, emboldens and encourages the reactionary right-wing chuds like the Neo-Nazi at that Spanish tournament.

If they had any actual bravery whatsoever they'd actually start to present characters like Guilliman and Marines in general as the horrible monsters and giant pieces of gak they actually are, if only just a little. They did it many years ago.

Do these things need to be labeled like a Ben Garrison cartoon?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Hm, i'm half tempted to say someone saw that Spanish tournament thread on here. Or heard about it some other way. Either way it's a good statement.

No need for them to see anything here, lots of people have been contacting GW to complain about it from Spain.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Considering GW are actively asking the community to help with clamping down on this behaviour, the mods on here also do their part and start taking a more heavy handed approach to specific posters who evidently support or try to defend such persons.

It's obvious the posters I am talking about, it's meant to be obvious without actually naming them.

I'm getting a sense that some things are more obvious than others.

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

The entire plot-line of Guilliman's return especially unfortunately came at the wrong RL time entirely. Here you have a blue-eyed, blonde haired, superman outsider coming into to drain the swamp and Make the Imperium Great Again. In 2016/17. Yikes.

And then the entire plot thrust of trying to return the Imperium to "greatness" and the call to nationalistic nostalgia is never treated with any kind of criticism. Just look at subreddit's like r/40klore and how people bemoan the loss of the 30k Imperium; despite it functionally being the exact same as the one 10,000 years later, just a little bit more efficient at weaponizing its monstrous evil and pretending it isn't religious. (despite the entire structure and enforcement of the Imperial Truth aping all of the worst aspects of organized religion completely)

So, GW can say this all it wants. But everything about the way it markets and presents its flagship IP does not reflect this statement and in fact further reinforces, emboldens and encourages the reactionary right-wing chuds like the Neo-Nazi at that Spanish tournament.

If they had any actual bravery whatsoever they'd actually start to present characters like Guilliman and Marines in general as the horrible monsters and giant pieces of gak they actually are, if only just a little. They did it many years ago.

I'm guessing you haven't been watching Hammer and Bolter on Warhammer+? The Marines are definitely not portrayed in a "heroic" light in the episode "In the garden of ghosts".

On a side note:

Yes! GW has finally confirmed that there are no good guys in 40K. So no to any ambition to turn 40K in a comicbook fantasy place and eat it Tau players, you are not the good guys either, just the brightest shade of evil.

For real though:

Good move by GW, there are way too many people out there that fail to grasp the satirical aspect of 40K. Being a racist has no place in the community. The only negativity that should connect us is shame, our collected pile of unpainted miniatures to be exact.

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

You need to read the new BT rulebook

The Black Templars' weapons and wargear are as ornate as they are brutal. Their armoured forms are festooned with symbolic chains, grotesque memento mori and the fluttering parchment of crusader seals. Their scarred faces bear permanent scowls of intolerance and hatred. These are not saviours, not the shining heroes of Imperial legend. Rather, they are destroyers, wrathful warrior knights whose blood-drenched wars of faith rage from one end of the Imperium to the other.

It's full of stuff like this.

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Big Corporation does the bare minimum to pay lip service to the currently dominant ideology to ensure maximum profits.

Been this way as long as corporations existed.

Care to explain?

Corporations don't care about anything but the money, so they always do everything to pretend to support whatever the dominant ideology is where they want to sell stuff. Leftist ideologies are currently dominant among GW's target audience, so GW pretends to cater to them.

You can see this everywhere, from Disney removing gay kisses in China, to Blizzard simultenously supporting protests in the USA and Chineese government cracking down on protestors and minorities.

If fascism was dominant in the west (let's be honest, that's where Warhammer is most popular), GW would relase a statement about how homosexuals aren't allowed in their shops. The CEO is a old white dude that worked all his life in sales and marketing, don't trust a word corporations say. Because fundamentally it's all smoke and mirrors to distract from their endless greed.

 xttz wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

You need to read the new BT rulebook

The Black Templars' weapons and wargear are as ornate as they are brutal. Their armoured forms are festooned with symbolic chains, grotesque memento mori and the fluttering parchment of crusader seals. Their scarred faces bear permanent scowls of intolerance and hatred. These are not saviours, not the shining heroes of Imperial legend. Rather, they are destroyers, wrathful warrior knights whose blood-drenched wars of faith rage from one end of the Imperium to the other.

It's full of stuff like this.

That's cool.

Does any of that apply to any other chapters? People still think the Salamanders are good guys because they have some vague restraint when causing civilian casualties to Imperial citizens.

I'm not being facetious btw, it's legitimately good that GW didn't go the usual modern route with the BT book especially with how the BT themselves can end up attracting the worst of the worst as fans. But the same issues still exist; the BT are portrayed as evil because of their religious fanaticism and not because Space Marines in general are inherently kind of evil and not a good thing.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Big Corporation does the bare minimum to pay lip service to the currently dominant ideology to ensure maximum profits.

Been this way as long as corporations existed.

Care to explain?

Corporations don't care about anything but the money, so they always do everything to pretend to support whatever the dominant ideology is where they want to sell stuff. Leftist ideologies are currently dominant among GW's target audience, so GW pretends to cater to them.

You can see this everywhere, from Disney removing gay kisses in China, to Blizzard simultenously supporting protests in the USA and Chineese government cracking down on protestors and minorities.

If fascism was dominant in the west (let's be honest, that's where Warhammer is most popular), GW would relase a statement about how homosexuals aren't allowed in their shops. The CEO is a old white dude that worked all his life in sales and marketing, don't trust a word corporations say. Because fundamentally it's all smoke and mirrors to distract from their endless greed.

It must be incredibly exhausting being so cynical and angry all the time. Looking for conspiracies in every possible place.

Don't look under your bed, corporations are hiding there to steal your teeth.

Conspiracy would imply something underhanded or hidden. There's none of that here.

GW should have included the context of the inciting incident in their post.

 Bosskelot wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
It's good of them to say this, but also at the same time their recent marketing and even in the writing of their recent lore the satirical elements are being increasingly marginalized. I've yet to see any actual in-text criticism of Guilliman or Space Marines within any lore written in the past 4 years; the Marine Codex goes out of its way to really hammer home how "heroic" and "aspirational" the Marines are. And of course anyone opposed to Guilliman on the Imperium's side is just a corrupt, incompetent, religious fanatic or has some other character flaw that lets us know they aren't to be taken seriously.

You need to read the new BT rulebook

The Black Templars' weapons and wargear are as ornate as they are brutal. Their armoured forms are festooned with symbolic chains, grotesque memento mori and the fluttering parchment of crusader seals. Their scarred faces bear permanent scowls of intolerance and hatred. These are not saviours, not the shining heroes of Imperial legend. Rather, they are destroyers, wrathful warrior knights whose blood-drenched wars of faith rage from one end of the Imperium to the other.

It's full of stuff like this.

That's cool.

Does any of that apply to any other chapters? People still think the Salamanders are good guys because they have some vague restraint when causing civilian casualties to Imperial citizens.

I'm not being facetious btw, it's legitimately good that GW didn't go the usual modern route with the BT book especially with how the BT themselves can end up attracting the worst of the worst as fans. But the same issues still exist; the BT are portrayed as evil because of their religious fanaticism and not because Space Marines in general are inherently kind of evil and not a good thing.

Yeah, I don't see how this is a request to "Ben Garrison" things. Like Boskellot is saying, the whole lot of the Marines are kind of bad, including Gilly. There is nothing in the setting today that paints him or the valorous, honorable Ultras in a negative light (and I pick them as an example, that is far from the only one).

And no, some random cartoon recorded by some rando on Warhammer+ doesn't count as sufficiently casting Marines in the proper light

 Nurglitch wrote:
Don't look under your bed, corporations are hiding there to steal your teeth.

You say that in a time where you pretty much own nothing, because everything is rented from corporations, you are bombarded with ads every step of the way and you have 0 privacy because all your data is constantly being peddled around by corporations to each other.

Your teeth might be all that you truly own soon.

Was the Spanish tournament where that happened an official Games Workshop event?

I could write something pithy about GW doing the bare minimum here, but honestly, bravo. Simple and to the point, this is an excellent statement.
I'm glad to see Nottingham isn't blind to what's happening in some parts of the hobby. Let's hope this is the first step in them being more pro-active in pushing such people out.

Wonder who is going to get mad GW Is protesting hate speech? (By that, I don't mean Dakkians, but the usual crowd that takes a personal offense whenever GW says something like "hate speech is bad.)

 Fergie0044 wrote:
I could write something pithy about GW doing the bare minimum here, but honestly, bravo. Simple and to the point, this is an excellent statement.
I'm glad to see Nottingham isn't blind to what's happening in some parts of the hobby. Let's hope this is the first step in them being more pro-active in pushing such people out.

Yep, this neatly summarises my feelings on the matter. Exalt.