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The last time I encountered him?
He fell to a twin lascannon shot from almost max range.

He'd been softened up a bit in the previous fight phase. So in my shooting I started with a far off TLC dread who had limited targets due to LoS. The choice was pick on some Plague Marines minding their own business out on an objective (sure I'd kill a few of them, but they'd still be on the objective) OR I could potentially KO Mortarion (more likely just soften him up some more if at all) depending upon how all the dice rolled.
Mortarion it was....
Enough damage made it through.

Another kill ring got added to the dreads LC barrel that night.

There was a Youtuber who was pretty Custodes focused, who showed Custodes Bikes and Terminators taking Morty down to his last bracket in a single turn, but that was pre-9th Morty. I'd be willing to bet with the new Blade Champion they could drop him with the new Behemor attack profile, but how the "Always wounds on a x+" interacts with a FNP will still need to be addressed. Does it act like a Super MW, with by-passing FNP, skip wound phase, go straight to damage?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
There was a Youtuber who was pretty Custodes focused, who showed Custodes Bikes and Terminators taking Morty down to his last bracket in a single turn, but that was pre-9th Morty. I'd be willing to bet with the new Blade Champion they could drop him with the new Behemor attack profile, but how the "Always wounds on a x+" interacts with a FNP will still need to be addressed. Does it act like a Super MW, with by-passing FNP, skip wound phase, go straight to damage?

Behemor bypasses the roll to wound phase. At that point, Mortarion would roll saves, and if any of those save rolls were unsuccessful damage would be applied and his FNP roll would be taken.

Statistically, a Blade Champion is liable to do about 2 damage to Mortarion.

 MinMax wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
There was a Youtuber who was pretty Custodes focused, who showed Custodes Bikes and Terminators taking Morty down to his last bracket in a single turn, but that was pre-9th Morty. I'd be willing to bet with the new Blade Champion they could drop him with the new Behemor attack profile, but how the "Always wounds on a x+" interacts with a FNP will still need to be addressed. Does it act like a Super MW, with by-passing FNP, skip wound phase, go straight to damage?

Behemor bypasses the roll to wound phase. At that point, Mortarion would roll saves, and if any of those save rolls were unsuccessful damage would be applied and his FNP roll would be taken.

Statistically, a Blade Champion is liable to do about 2 damage to Mortarion.

Easy. Just bring 9 blade champions then. :-)

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
There was a Youtuber who was pretty Custodes focused, who showed Custodes Bikes and Terminators taking Morty down to his last bracket in a single turn, but that was pre-9th Morty. I'd be willing to bet with the new Blade Champion they could drop him with the new Behemor attack profile, but how the "Always wounds on a x+" interacts with a FNP will still need to be addressed. Does it act like a Super MW, with by-passing FNP, skip wound phase, go straight to damage?

120 Hurricane Bolter shots used to do a number on him (get him down to 3ish life I think, maybe 5) but that was when he was T7 in 8th. Going to T8 was huge for him and it's not nearly as effective anymore.

Spamming MWs at him seems really effective.

T8 is the problem... plus +1 to wound or -1T would be good.

I mean, what faction currently doesn't have something that can deal with him? Tau? (Wait to see their codex.) Sisters have dice, DE have DE naughtiness, and Eldar have MW Spam, Marines have Marine shenanigans, Custodes have Bikes, terminators, and dreadnaught spam. The shadowsword used to be able to 1shot him, now it only does 5.8 damage. Unbelievable.

The stacking buffs means that whilst an army can maybe take him out.. it takes an unrealistic amount, because he is unbelievably tough.

And then murders whatever didn't quite kill him, along with the rest of the army which can roll yours.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I mean, what faction currently doesn't have something that can deal with him? Tau? (Wait to see their codex.) Sisters have dice, DE have DE naughtiness, and Eldar have MW Spam, Marines have Marine shenanigans, Custodes have Bikes, terminators, and dreadnaught spam. The shadowsword used to be able to 1shot him, now it only does 5.8 damage. Unbelievable.

The Shadowsword was never able to oneshot Mortarion. It only does 1.3 less damage than it used to.

In what world do Craftworlds put up the MWs to deal with Mortarion?

Chaos Knight with Khornate Target with a fist to the face does a decent job I found haha.

If you have tough enough units, you can kite him. As the fall back was nerfed to fly units, some T5 multiwound chunky boys (such as Custodian Guards, Gravis Marines, Paragons/Mortifiers/Penitents, Kataphrons etc) can reliably block him for two turns with a well placed charge.

Lots of 8 str+ ap-1 weapons
which don't exist (someone check me on this).

Str 5-7 with +1 to wound could work.

Other than that, mortal wounds if you have them.

I think you mean T6. T5 gets pushed down to T4 and he is wounding you on 2s. 7 attack on top bracket. S16 2+ 2+ AP4 D3+1D3. OR 21 Attacks S8 AP2 D1.

How exactly are you planing on blocking him with T5 models? Transhuman can help. But nothing lives through that.

IMHO T5-6 is not a big deal. The scythe is a plague weapon, so he will reroll 1s regardless. As I see, most factions have multiwound T5-6 options for holding him down for 2 turns (unless he falls back and your unit gets shot, but he is done for that turn as well).

I'm not saying it is a perfect solution, but unless you are some pre-FAQ Admech levels shooting army, there is nothing much you can do, even punching him to death is incredibly hard most of the time and results in pyrrhic victory.

Morty kills (quick mathhammer, might be wrong on some counts):

Custodes: 2 shield guardians or 3 regulars without transhuman in the fight phase (ofc he can shoot his pistol, but then he is stuck for another round). With transhuman it goes to 1 model or 1 model and 2 wounds. This is reaping, as eviscerating is worse against good invuls.

Necrons: 3 Wraiths with both profiles, they also heal and reanimate, AND are better in movement phase.

Marines: 4 SS Vanguard or Company Veterans, 3 with Transhuman. 3/2 for Baldeguard Veterans. Jump pack assault squad should lose 6 without transhuman, and matches his mobility. Maybe you can even hold your ground with intercessors as well.

Sisters: OVH assumed: Mortifiers have a not good, but not impossible chance of staying in combat after losing 3 of 4, Mortifiers as well.

A full troupe of harlequins can outmanouver him and lose 9 of 12, but I don't know nothing about harlequins.

All in all, it isn't easy, but you should be able to kite Mortarion for two turns for roughly half-two-thirds of his price, if he is isolated. If he isn't, the trade is more likely 1:1 or worse.

How many Culexus would you need to take him down, seeing as how he's a psyker?

He deals 10 wounds to anything T4 4++ save, so that is 5 dead SS space marines. or 3 dead with transhuman.

Bare in mind he'll likely give himself re-rolls to hit and will have (effectively) re-rolls to wound.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many Culexus would you need to take him down, seeing as how he's a psyker?

In shooting, assuming they're all within 6", 12 Culexus Assassins will deal about 7.15 Wounds to Mortarion. In melee, those same Assassins will deal about 4.44 Wounds.

You'd need something like 20 Culexus Assassins to deal 18 Wounds to take Mortarion off the table in a single turn of shooting and assault.

So the Culexus then would be the weakest matchup against him? Callidus would take a chunk off easily. Their neural shredders would do a fair bit, as would their phase blades and poison blades. But even that is too much cost.

4 Vindis with Turbo Penetrator rounds might be able to drop him a single bracket?

lol turbo pen is a strat so only one gets to use it.
4 vindis can do anywhere between 0-32 damage.

Average damage comes out to 6.08 (lot of complex math in this) however.

This is pretty sad for 4 100pt assasins who are supposed to be the best sniper in the galaxy.

They really need to change the rule to always wound on a 2+ against everything except vehicles instead of just infantry like it is now. That and a points drop back down to 85.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So the Culexus then would be the weakest matchup against him? Callidus would take a chunk off easily. Their neural shredders would do a fair bit, as would their phase blades and poison blades. But even that is too much cost.

4 Vindis with Turbo Penetrator rounds might be able to drop him a single bracket?

9 Vindicares all using Turbo Penetrator rounds would deal about 10 damage - a little more than enough to bracket Mortarion.

In shooting, 12 Callidus Assassins would deal 6.67 wounds to Mortarion. In melee, attacking exclusively with Poison Blades, those same 12 Callidus Assassins would deal 13.3 wounds to Mortarion.

No Assassin is efficient at dealing with Mortarion - or indeed, really efficient at all.

They are really suffering from the "relic of a bygone edition" syndrome. Just like Inquisitors. Morty is the Castellan of 9th. Completely OP rules, only mitigated by cost, and can easily break casual level games.

Pretty much nothing kills Mortarion efficiently, the closest you can get to easy mode is anything that turns off at least one of his exceptional defensive stats:
1. Death Hex/Null Zone/Khornate Target can turn off invuls, all AP-4 weapons are now twice as effective without armour to worry about
2. Drukhari style poison weapons, or the Deathwatch army of renown can ignore his T8 to a degree
3. MW are the best

If you don't have anything similar to these, it might be better to focus on racking up points while feeding more disposable units to Mortarion to slow him down.

*waves*

DG player here.

What kills Mortarion? Lots. Hear me out.

For casual games, Morty is a beefcake.

Competitively, most DG players don't bring him anymore because of his costs. Yes, in a vacuum he's an amazing model, but really takes a bit out of an army composition list due to his cost. If you bring him, you also need a unit or two of something that is also threatening. Otherwise, Morty just ends up being a bullet magnet in the game.

Things like mass bolters will bring him down...

Drukhari splinter weapons can do the job.

Thousand sons bolters/flamers due to the -2 AP.

The regular Necron guns can work too.

Sisters can bring Eradicators and use faith dice to deal high damage.

Orks has access to numerous high volume shots, boosted if freeboota.

Chaos and SM has access to Volkite Contemptors.

Basically, what brings down Morty is high volume of shots in my experience. If your army doesn't have that, then bring a unit that can slow him down for a turn or two while you work on the rest of the army.

 whembly wrote:


Competitively, most DG players don't bring him anymore because of his costs. Yes, in a vacuum he's an amazing model, but really takes a bit out of an army composition list due to his cost. If you bring him, you also need a unit or two of something that is also threatening. Otherwise, Morty just ends up being a bullet magnet in the game.

Morty, 2x pb crawlers and 2x3 deathshroud termies are 1120 points. All effective units that soak anti tank and can be prioritized by the opponent. Plenty of spared points to make a functional competitive list starting with those units.

 whembly wrote:

Spoiler:

*waves*

DG player here.

What kills Mortarion? Lots. Hear me out.

For casual games, Morty is a beefcake.

Competitively, most DG players don't bring him anymore because of his costs. Yes, in a vacuum he's an amazing model, but really takes a bit out of an army composition list due to his cost. If you bring him, you also need a unit or two of something that is also threatening. Otherwise, Morty just ends up being a bullet magnet in the game.

Things like mass bolters will bring him down...

Drukhari splinter weapons can do the job.

Thousand sons bolters/flamers due to the -2 AP.

The regular Necron guns can work too.

Sisters can bring Eradicators and use faith dice to deal high damage.

Orks has access to numerous high volume shots, boosted if freeboota.

Chaos and SM has access to Volkite Contemptors.

Basically, what brings down Morty is high volume of shots in my experience. If your army doesn't have that, then bring a unit that can slow him down for a turn or two while you work on the rest of the army.

I'm confused here - you mentioned AP-2 but morty has a 4++ so unless you can land an anti-invulnerable ability, AP-1 takes you to a 4+ or 4++.

By massed bolter fire, 480 shots at BS3+ all with AP-1 (assuming tactical doctrine to be kind). That's 40 hurricane bolters in rapid fire range or.. 240 boltguns. I don't see that as achievable?

Splinter weapons - good shout, getting past that T8 with massed firepower, you're now dealing with a TX (wound 4+) 4++/5+++ or 66% damage mitigation (on D1 weapons, slightly less on multi-damage weapons).

Contemptors - each one deals around 1 mw & 2 regular unsaved wounds. So 3 would deal 9.. Which actually isn't bad.

Vanguard popping their radium strategem / buffed by doctrinas, a marshal & a manipulus do about 9 wounds (for about 330pts).

Massed Str5 ap-1 is the sweet spot. Or anything that auto wounds / +1 to wound / wounds on a set value.

What is Vanguard with radium stratagem?

It's funny, if we didn't know better he might be a "Primarch level threat". I'm not saying he shouldn't be what he is, but he's literally a zero weakness enemy. At least give him a bracket nerf. A decreasing Save or something. He shouldn't get to be almost as powerful 16 wounds later as he was before.

 Niiai wrote:
What is Vanguard with radium stratagem?

Enriched Rounds (2CP)

Ah. I play Space Wolves. I do not know it.