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Racerguy180 wrote:
The eldar still number in the billions if you factor in all the unnamed Craftworlds, exodite, harlis etc. So naturally they do everything in their power to avoid needing to dip into their "home guard" but there will always be situations where they've got no choice.

Every battle in 40k(tabletop) is worst case scenario. So inherently the game will skew towards that.

But the player also has some agency in list creation. If you don't want your CWE to use guardians, don't. If you want to have aspects & wraith constructs doin the dirty work, do it.

All vehicle crew are Guardians. So far the only known Aspects that deal with vehicles are the Shining Spears and Crimson Hunters. If there are tank Aspects, we haven't seen them yet because GW hasn't made them up yet.

Titan Clans are in a separate category of their own.

Path of the Mon'keigh Wrench?

Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

To clarify, if you have had most of your range re-newed in the last 5 years, or because the models are fairly excellent still and it would be an absolute waste of designer time and factory time to update them, then the faction does not need a range re-fresh (Most of the Tau line is a prime example).

The only elements I can start to think of are past forces, such as renegades and heretics that are a faction as a whole that could do with some love (and are rumoured to be getting that), and then Tau auxiliaries, but arguably you could almost treat these as completely brand new factions. What else? Inquisitors?

From a glance, Tau seem to have a lot of stuff from the Cadian era (I'm not sure I've never really bought any Tau).

JWBS wrote:
From a glance, Tau seem to have a lot of stuff from the Cadian era (I'm not sure I've never really bought any Tau).

I don’t think Tau have anything that old except maybe Kroot. Which is mainly what Tau needs redoing, the kroot stuff and a relatively tiny amount of finecast.

I was thinking Kroot, Devilfish, xv8, firewarriors and pathfinders, but it seems the xv8 and fw / pf were updated at some point, but still look very close to the originals in some cases. I think the original kroot warriors stand up better than some of the updated stuff tbh.

JWBS wrote:
I was thinking Kroot, Devilfish, xv8, firewarriors and pathfinders, but it seems the xv8 and fw / pf were updated at some point, but still look very close to the originals in some cases. I think the original kroot warriors stand up better than some of the updated stuff tbh.

They’re like the new Guardians, the design is very similar but the new kits are much better. I could see an argument for the Devilfish but I don’t think any Eldar vehicles are being redone and they’d need it at least as much.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

Tyranids (in the sense of missing opportunities to port remaining Finecast to plastic and/or refresh some of their older kits) and Dark Eldar (porting from Finecast and/or returning options which have been removed and/or adding new units)...

Am I right in thinking that, special characters aside, Orks only have two units left in finecast – Weirdboy and Tankbustas? Or have I forgotten something?

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

To clarify, if you have had most of your range re-newed in the last 5 years, or because the models are fairly excellent still and it would be an absolute waste of designer time and factory time to update them, then the faction does not need a range re-fresh (Most of the Tau line is a prime example).

The only elements I can start to think of are past forces, such as renegades and heretics that are a faction as a whole that could do with some love (and are rumoured to be getting that), and then Tau auxiliaries, but arguably you could almost treat these as completely brand new factions. What else? Inquisitors?

I know this seems like a dumb want/suggestion but knight household units that support the knights. Big stompy mecha armies are fun but if they had some house militia or the sacristian or however it's spelt support guys it might make them less of a one trick skew army.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 silent25 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The choice of an armored belly button for the female guardians is a bit odd...

It’s strange but certainly nothing new. Eldar armor has had belly buttons before. The new banshees have it too iirc

Boob and belly plates with button seem to be gws decision for female armour on Eldar going forward. Will be interesting to see if they continue onto the other plastic aspects.

What do you mean going forward? Eldar have had boob armor and belly plates since RT. They were present on the original Howling Banshee sculpts by Jes Goodwin. The belly button was even in his concept art for the them.

Spoiler:

I think what everyone is forgetting with the boob/belly button thing is that the eldar "armor" is basically a wetsuit. It then hardens when struck into armor, then goes back for maximum mobility. In theory one could give the male ones belly buttons too, but a thin gut is something generally more associated with females, and defined abs with men, which allows better differentiation on the tabletop.

Now I want bellybuttons on all the Eldars...

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

Ignoring hq and hero models...

Tyranids:
Gaunts are looking pretty dated
Lictor
genestealers
possibly Carnifex

Dark Eldar:
Mandrakes
Grotesques

Tau:
Vespid
Kroots (all need updating)

Orks:
Burna/Loota boys
Tankbustas

Imperial Guard:
infantry kits excepting Tempestus


I would argue that Imperial Guard and Tyranids need love the most after an Elder range update

 Grimdesign wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

This is half joking, but half serious, what model ranges would still be severely out of date or desperately need an upgrade of models?

Ignoring hq and hero models...

Tyranids:
Gaunts are looking pretty dated
Lictor
genestealers
possibly Carnifex

Gaunts, Hormagaunts, Rippers, Lictors, Genestealers, Carnifexes and Biovores all date back to 4th edition 40k. I'd argue even though Warrior got recut and all their options added for the most part, the core of their kit is still the 4th edition warrior (but I'll give them a pass as they maintain their aesthetic but improve a lot of things). Trygons/Mawlocs date to 5th edition 40k. as do the plastic Raveners iirc.

Lictors, Spore Mines, Pyrovores and Biovores are all still finecast kits as well. It's be easy enough to combine Biovores and Pyrovores into a dual kit and to be honest, probably easy enough to do a plastic Lictor brood with options to make Deathleaper out of one of them.

Nothing wrong with the Burna/Loota kit. Apart from special characters, only the Tankbustas and Wierdboy are finecast still, so we're pretty well off now.

I’m pretty sure, that after current big Eldar update, the most outdated range deserving an immediate update will be… Eldar We haven’t had any rumours of Falcon chasis getting a refresh and this is a 20+ years old kit. There are also five PL to refresh and we saw a peek at one. What we hear is that current update is „large but incomplete”, so I think it’s safe to assume, that there will still be some 20+ years old, original or 3rd/4th era sculpts left to refresh.

Other than that, it is really baffling why an obvious biovore/pyrovore plastic kit has not been released with the rest of Tyranid dual kits and Lictors and Shrikes have been ommited. Gaunts and stealers are getting old and on top of that genestealers are a pain to build. So my vote goes to Tyranids.

I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

Exactly. 20 in a box is a must. Also, even as a Tyranid fan that really wants all plastic army, and the update of all those dated plastic kits, I think that IG should get their infantry first as they look so dated next to all other stuff it is not funny.

One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

nou wrote:
One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

Yeah, they need to both look better, and be easier to assemble. Of course they should also have all the weapons/upgrades options in the box too.

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

The problem that I have with Guard is that, even now, people are insisting that they're a "horde army" in that they should be flapping units of bajillions of models like Tyranids or Orks.

They are not. There are subfactions within them that prioritize conscripts or the like, but the idea of them being a "horde army" isn't predicated solely upon them having large sized units. It's that there are supposed to be a lot of units out there.

The "horde army" nonsense already has ruined Skitarii in three different ways. At least leave Guard alone.

IG was born from the mental images of trench meat grinders and sweeping Soviet infantry pushes. They were always the most numerous Imperial faction as far as model count is concerned and if there's a non-Xeno army that should be based around the idea of quantity over quality, it's IG.

You can have your Armoured Companies and elite Scion detachments, variety is the spice of life, but calling "horde" IG nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

nou wrote:
One problem with updating Gaunts is that those would have to be significantly better sculpts, not simply better cut kits for the old players to invest in them. I don't really find it all that rewarding to assemble and paint another 60 cannon fodder models

Yeah, they need to both look better, and be easier to assemble. Of course they should also have all the weapons/upgrades options in the box too.

GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
IG was born from the mental images of trench meat grinders and sweeping Soviet infantry pushes. They were always the most numerous Imperial faction as far as model count is concerned and if there's a non-Xeno army that should be based around the idea of quantity over quality, it's IG.

And yet, that's not actually the bloody case nor has it been for quite some time.
Tallarn Desert Raiders? Oh, quality over quantity.
Cadian Shock Troops? Prior to the Cruddacing: quality over quantity.
Vostroyans, Necromundan Spyders, Mordians, Praetorians, Catachans, Elysians, Tanith, and Steel Legion? Quality over quantity.
Quantity over quality? Valhallans, Savlar Chem-Dogs, and (potentially arguable even!) Death Korps.

You can have your Armoured Companies and elite Scion detachments, variety is the spice of life, but calling "horde" IG nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.

I called the idea of big units of Guardsmen nonsense. That's why the Conscript Squad exists. That's why the Penal Legionnaires existed. That's why the Combined Squads stratagem exists.

I'll continue to call them nonsense as well. They're nonsense. They show a drastic lack of understanding about what is supposed to make Guard interesting or unique. It's not the idea of "we have so many bodies we can just throw corpses at you with no guns!".

It's the idea that there is always more people to "recruit".

So again...they can be a horde army without needing unit sizes of 20 or more.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

Were the new gaunt-forms in Octarius book II?

Only stuff I had seen made it sound more like a new "feeder-beast", something the size of a Venomthrope or the like.

I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

Y'all do y'all.

I just want Guard to be in a good place. I'll frigging firesale my old Cadians to new players if they want in on a new book if I can take Kasrkin going forward.

 xttz wrote:


GW could certainly get buy-in from some players by just bringing back some of the old Termagant weapon options. Making new broods of spike rifles or stranglewebs would tempting for some, and can be run alongside old fleshborer gaunts.

There's also mention of "new gaunt-forms" in recent fluff, so I think we'll see new options beyond the old terms/hormas.

There were rumours floating around the net since at least a year about the new gaunt kit that builds terma/horma/some new gaunt type. Could as well be some wishful thinking and I cannot remember where I read them.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

A Guard 'squad' box should contain a platoon of two grunt squads and one command mob.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Assuming that Eldar get a fairly big release, as well as chaos, and maybe even tyranids... And as a bonus Guard get the rumoured new vehicle and a DKoK model expansion, and then finally squats get a bit of love.

If Marines were to get more models after this, what are people going to moan about being neglected?

Can I nominate DE?

Given that their already slim codex has lost about 10 different units since 5th and has gained 0 new units in that time.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t actually think squad size in game was really the point being made though, although that would correlate with the box contents size. It was more about the cost to build an army.

A Guard 'squad' box should contain a platoon of two grunt squads and one command mob.

Platoons aren't a thing anymore.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think Tyranids and the Guard are next due a serious release. Gaunts could definitely do with an update.

The problem I have is that both of these horde armies need to have 20 in the box, or else it's painfully expensive.

The problem that I have with Guard is that, even now, people are insisting that they're a "horde army" in that they should be flapping units of bajillions of models like Tyranids or Orks.

They are not. There are subfactions within them that prioritize conscripts or the like, but the idea of them being a "horde army" isn't predicated solely upon them having large sized units. It's that there are supposed to be a lot of units out there.

The "horde army" nonsense already has ruined Skitarii in three different ways. At least leave Guard alone.

Maybe not horde army but still infantry heavy.