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Made in gb
Dutiful Citizen Levy



UK

Hi, looking to get the wisdom of some Eldar experts.
Essentially, how does an Eldar become an Autarch? Having checked Lexicanum, it says they walk multiple Aspect Warrior paths before embarking on the Path of Command, which is what I'd previously thought. But it also says
when the time for war has passed, they return to their traditional rank of Exarch, and their traditional place as leaders of their Aspect shrines
- so are they actually Exarchs? How does that work with them going through multiple Aspect paths? I'd thought an Exarch was trapped on a single, consuming path, specifically that of their temple. Is that not the case? What does that imply for the Exarchs given that they are supposed to embody all the previous Exarchs of their shrine - does this mean an Autarch is doing that for multiple shrines?
Kind of confused here, appreciate any help!

He/him
'The bounties of space, of infinite outwardness, were three: empty heroics, low comedy, and pointless death.'
The Sirens of Titan, Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






The downside of Lex is that while it's better than Wikia or whatever its called, it does often just fully lift stuff from 20 odd sources and just plops it down. That specific passage is from Epic and Aeldari lore has changed a bit since then. You'd have to check the new Codex when it comes out to see what it says on the process of becoming an Autarch.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One thing that complicates Eldar society is that the Path system coupled with their very long lifespans and desire to experience everything they can (in general) means that one Eldar might be in a specific role today, but they might have been in multiple other higher and lower ranked roles before. Of course there's a few - like Exarches and Farseers - who are "locked" into their paths and will rarely to never be able to leave them.

The Eldar collected books are quite an interesting read, the Path series that starts it can feel a bit rough at first but its a really neat insight into how Alien the Eldar are.




Suffice to say in those stories the Exarches are presented as basically the near end-game for an Eldar. Once in that path they are locked into it, the only exit is either death or a very rare chance event where they merge with the Patron of their Path and become an Aspect Warrior - basically becoming the new organic and newest mind to the almost living armour.




And yeah bits of lore change all the time; sometimes its evolution of a concept being taken further, sometimes its just straight up changed. A fair bit of lore sort of gets away with this by being "written from the Imperial Viewpoint" which can easily be wrong. Heck al ot of early Tyranid Lore was like that

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Dutiful Citizen Levy



UK

 Gert wrote:
The downside of Lex is that while it's better than Wikia or whatever its called, it does often just fully lift stuff from 20 odd sources and just plops it down. That specific passage is from Epic and Aeldari lore has changed a bit since then. You'd have to check the new Codex when it comes out to see what it says on the process of becoming an Autarch.


Yeah that makes sense, thanks.

The Eldar collected books are quite an interesting read, the Path series that starts it can feel a bit rough at first but its a really neat insight into how Alien the Eldar are.




Suffice to say in those stories the Exarches are presented as basically the near end-game for an Eldar. Once in that path they are locked into it, the only exit is either death or a very rare chance event where they merge with the Patron of their Path and become an Aspect Warrior - basically becoming the new organic and newest mind to the almost living armour.


I've read the Path series and the first of the Ynnari novels, what would you recommend? The Exarch being just added to the armour is something I really liked. Is there any (current) fluff reason an Autarch couldn't also undergo something similar, but for previous Autarchs of the same Craftworld, giving a chain of consistent war leadership down the millennia? I know it's not the norm, but tbh it would be even more interesting if it was something other Craftworlds would see as unseemly or taboo.

He/him
'The bounties of space, of infinite outwardness, were three: empty heroics, low comedy, and pointless death.'
The Sirens of Titan, Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Let's go back to the beginning.

An exarch is an Eldar that becomes trapped by their obsession with the path of the warrior.

The important thing being path of the warrior, not an aspect of the warrior. What this meant was they weren't stuck being a scorpion, or banshee etc. They could stay there but didn't have to.

These Exarchs that continued to cycle through the aspects of the path were called menshad korum, the hunter in pursuit of himself.

This hasn't been explicitly retconned, but certainly de-emphasized in current fluff. The Exarchs formed a war council in counterpoint to the seer council.

In epic Armageddon before the 4th Ed codex came out with the modern autarch, they described the autarch as an exarch that took command of the exarch council. So it could be any exarch at any given time.

The current autarch is on the newly created path of command. Conceptually it's similar to a warlock - an Eldar on another path whose ties to the warrior path impact this new one.



Imo they should have a menshad korum exarch as an hq or exarch upgrade option. After all, an eldar that mastered every aspect but then gets trapped in the warrior path is going to be more powerful than an autarch who left to do command.

   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Overseas

A menshad korum exarch would be really cool. Especially for a smaller size game like a Patrol or Kill Team.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




An Autarch is one who walks the Path of Command. Like how Warlocks walk the Path of the Seer but have a prerequisite of having walked the Path of the Warrior first, the Autarch has a prerequisite of having walked one or more Aspects of the Path of the Warrior.

Autarchs are not trapped, as the example of Yriel shows. Yriel was Autarch before leaving to become a Corsair, then he returned to Iyanden and the Path. If Autarchs are trapped, they would not be able to leave the Path like Yriel did.
   
Made in gb
Defending Guardian Defender




Nottingham



I've read the Path series and the first of the Ynnari novels, what would you recommend? The Exarch being just added to the armour is something I really liked. Is there any (current) fluff reason an Autarch couldn't also undergo something similar, but for previous Autarchs of the same Craftworld, giving a chain of consistent war leadership down the millennia? I know it's not the norm, but tbh it would be even more interesting if it was something other Craftworlds would see as unseemly or taboo.


I haven’t seen any fluff reason why you couldn’t. I can’t think of seeing any precedent for this but nothing happened first until the first time it happened! If you want to incorporate this into the fluff for your own craft world then why not. I think it sounds pretty cool and there are examples of craft worlds (e.g. Saim-Hann) who have a looser or slightly varied approach to The Path than other craftworlds. Even if it was something that other craftworlds found distasteful in some way, doesn’t stop you having it as a feature if yours.

Typical!  
   
Made in vn
Dakka Veteran




Autarch Mauryon is a former Fire Dragon Exarch. This is still stated in the Wiki.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wikis are not good sources of information as they can be full of inaccuracies intermingled with actual information, with people putting their own fan theories in as if they were definitively proven to be the case.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/07 04:49:33


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





bibotot wrote:
Autarch Mauryon is a former Fire Dragon Exarch. This is still stated in the Wiki.



That's because he's a character from EPIC Armageddon swordwind, where autarchs where the lead exarch of an exarch council.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 BigOws wrote:


I've read the Path series and the first of the Ynnari novels, what would you recommend? The Exarch being just added to the armour is something I really liked. Is there any (current) fluff reason an Autarch couldn't also undergo something similar, but for previous Autarchs of the same Craftworld, giving a chain of consistent war leadership down the millennia? I know it's not the norm, but tbh it would be even more interesting if it was something other Craftworlds would see as unseemly or taboo.


I haven’t seen any fluff reason why you couldn’t. I can’t think of seeing any precedent for this but nothing happened first until the first time it happened! If you want to incorporate this into the fluff for your own craft world then why not. I think it sounds pretty cool and there are examples of craft worlds (e.g. Saim-Hann) who have a looser or slightly varied approach to The Path than other craftworlds. Even if it was something that other craftworlds found distasteful in some way, doesn’t stop you having it as a feature if yours.


It seems like a thing that would be within craftworlders' power to do. It's just probably considered really horrific by most asuryani. Autarchs aren't generally said to be lost to the path the same way exarchs are. An autarch can roam the craftworld, go to dinner parties, etc. An exarch is sort of quarantined in his shrine during peacetime because he's a psycho who can't phrase things in casual conversation without it coming across as a threat of violence. And in death, you kind of don't want the exarch's spirit roaming around the infinity circuit because their bloodlust risks polluting the the fish tank. But you also don't want to just let them die because then you're losing a powerful asset and feeding it to Slaanesh. So you stick them in either an exarch suit where they can hang out with their similarly toxic fellow exarch souls and stretch their legs or you plug them into a wraith lord.

In other words, creating exarch suits and allowing living eldar to join their gestalt consciousness is the lesser of several evils, but it's still a really dark and crummy fate that you probably don't want to wish on anyone if you can avoid it. If an autarch can generally be laid to rest in the infinity circuit, not doing so and instead turning them into a suit that eats generation after generation of fresh souls is a pretty dark price to pay.

Plus, you can always just stick a dead autarch's soul in a spirit stone and consult said stone during battle. Provided the soul is still alert to answer a spirit seer's summons anyway.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Dutiful Citizen Levy



UK

 BigOws wrote:

I haven’t seen any fluff reason why you couldn’t. I can’t think of seeing any precedent for this but nothing happened first until the first time it happened! If you want to incorporate this into the fluff for your own craft world then why not. I think it sounds pretty cool and there are examples of craft worlds (e.g. Saim-Hann) who have a looser or slightly varied approach to The Path than other craftworlds. Even if it was something that other craftworlds found distasteful in some way, doesn’t stop you having it as a feature if yours.


Cool


Plus, you can always just stick a dead autarch's soul in a spirit stone and consult said stone during battle. Provided the soul is still alert to answer a spirit seer's summons anyway.


Ah yeah I'd forgotten that could be an option.

Let's go back to the beginning.

An exarch is an Eldar that becomes trapped by their obsession with the path of the warrior.

The important thing being path of the warrior, not an aspect of the warrior. What this meant was they weren't stuck being a scorpion, or banshee etc. They could stay there but didn't have to.

These Exarchs that continued to cycle through the aspects of the path were called menshad korum, the hunter in pursuit of himself.

This hasn't been explicitly retconned, but certainly de-emphasized in current fluff. The Exarchs formed a war council in counterpoint to the seer council.

In epic Armageddon before the 4th Ed codex came out with the modern autarch, they described the autarch as an exarch that took command of the exarch council. So it could be any exarch at any given time.

The current autarch is on the newly created path of command. Conceptually it's similar to a warlock - an Eldar on another path whose ties to the warrior path impact this new one.


That's basically what I'd believed initially, glad to see I wasn't too far off!

I really love the depth of Eldar fluff, thanks everyone for weighing in.

He/him
'The bounties of space, of infinite outwardness, were three: empty heroics, low comedy, and pointless death.'
The Sirens of Titan, Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Somewhere in Canada

When the new dex drops, the Crusade rules will allow you to play through various parts of the path system.

I imagine that walking certain paths in a certain order will provide different exit points for the models involved. I can't wait to see it.
   
Made in gb
Dutiful Citizen Levy



UK

PenitentJake wrote:
When the new dex drops, the Crusade rules will allow you to play through various parts of the path system.

I imagine that walking certain paths in a certain order will provide different exit points for the models involved. I can't wait to see it.


That sounds great fun and very exciting!

He/him
'The bounties of space, of infinite outwardness, were three: empty heroics, low comedy, and pointless death.'
The Sirens of Titan, Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




 Hellebore wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning.

An exarch is an Eldar that becomes trapped by their obsession with the path of the warrior.

The important thing being path of the warrior, not an aspect of the warrior. What this meant was they weren't stuck being a scorpion, or banshee etc. They could stay there but didn't have to.

These Exarchs that continued to cycle through the aspects of the path were called menshad korum, the hunter in pursuit of himself.

This hasn't been explicitly retconned, but certainly de-emphasized in current fluff. The Exarchs formed a war council in counterpoint to the seer council.


When an exarch becomes menshad korum, how does that impact their suit? Wouldn't the collective mind have a freak out over this? Plus could the armor even be modified properly?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Vulshra wrote:
 Hellebore wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning.

An exarch is an Eldar that becomes trapped by their obsession with the path of the warrior.

The important thing being path of the warrior, not an aspect of the warrior. What this meant was they weren't stuck being a scorpion, or banshee etc. They could stay there but didn't have to.

These Exarchs that continued to cycle through the aspects of the path were called menshad korum, the hunter in pursuit of himself.

This hasn't been explicitly retconned, but certainly de-emphasized in current fluff. The Exarchs formed a war council in counterpoint to the seer council.


When an exarch becomes menshad korum, how does that impact their suit? Wouldn't the collective mind have a freak out over this? Plus could the armor even be modified properly?


Why would it? They're souls obsessed with the path of the warrior. They get along just fine and in fact become a single gestalt entity.
[Thumb - Screenshot_20220215-163532_Adobe Acrobat.jpg]


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't think the cycling through Aspects bit is still current because all portrayals of Exarchs since 2nd edition onwards have been trapped upon a single Aspect of the Warrior Path. An Aspect Warriors that becomes trapped and becomes and Exarch becomes an Exarch of that Aspect forever more. Exarchs only exhibit powers related to their Aspect now no matter what past experiences their component souls might have had with other Aspects before becoming trapped. Gone are the days when Exarchs could pick freely from the Exarch powers list.

The old menshad korum cycling bit seems to have been adopted and modified into the Autarch concept, of one who has gone through multiple Aspects, though the Autarch is not trapped.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/15 05:53:04


 
   
 
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