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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/14 09:02:05
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Battleship Captain
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I know the 8th FAQ explictly said it was +2, and I've always taken it as rote that that still applied on 9th.
However, the other day my mate it was only +1, because the rules say you can never benefit from the same buff twice.
I argued +1 attack isn't a buff applied to the unit, it's an ability coming from the weapon, so the rule on buff stacking doesn't apply.
Is there any explicit ruling that would confirm or deny +2?
The recent addition covering "if you have two weapons, get +1 attack" certainly seems like the exception proving the rule that it should be +2.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/14 12:42:16
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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Stacking buffs works unless there's a specific rule to the contrary. Ask them to show you such a rule here.
Anyway, there is no general rule preventing stacking + to attacks though, so it does generally stack. Though bare in mind that different weapons might word themselves in such a way that prevents it: see Tyranid scything talons which give +1 attack if the barer has more than one pair, not 1 per weapon.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/14 15:50:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/14 14:45:31
Subject: Re:Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Dakka Veteran
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Why would there even be an option to take a second chainsword if it didn't do anything? Anyway, it is specifically aura abilities that don't stack (plus there are restrictions on certain specific characteristics like hit modifiers).
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8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/14 15:53:36
Subject: Re:Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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Bilge Rat wrote:Why would there even be an option to take a second chainsword if it didn't do anything? Anyway, it is specifically aura abilities that don't stack (plus there are restrictions on certain specific characteristics like hit modifiers).
Well, to be fair looking Tyranids again: Trygons have 3 pairs of scything talons. The 3rd pair literally does nothing for any rules purpose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/14 23:35:22
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Confessor Of Sins
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kirotheavenger wrote:
I know the 8th FAQ explictly said it was +2, and I've always taken it as rote that that still applied on 9th.
However, the other day my mate it was only +1, because the rules say you can never benefit from the same buff twice.
I argued +1 attack isn't a buff applied to the unit, it's an ability coming from the weapon, so the rule on buff stacking doesn't apply.
Is there any explicit ruling that would confirm or deny +2?
The recent addition covering "if you have two weapons, get +1 attack" certainly seems like the exception proving the rule that it should be +2.
Except the rules don't say that. He's misquoting this rule:
Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).
There is no such rule regarding Weapon Abilities or Abilities that are not Aura's that I can recall.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/15 10:20:51
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Your friend is inventing rules. Onus is on him to show you this rule preventing extra attacks. As it doesn’t exist he can’t.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/15 13:50:21
Subject: Re:Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It works, but it's stupid and frankly shouldn't. It never happens in fluff and doubling (or even tripling) the units attacks for free is just dumb. It really should be +1 attack only if you have a pistol or different melee weapon.
Bilge Rat wrote:Why would there even be an option to take a second chainsword if it didn't do anything?
Why you can take a pistol and a rifle when you can't ever fire both? Or two power fists, which does nothing (outside of Gravis dude with special provision for it)? Why you can upgrade BS of units that have no ranged weapons? Same deal, the fact you can pick niche, negative value combo doesn't mean there is some sort of upside to it, often it's just bad writing or relic of old rules that don't work anymore.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/15 14:21:36
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Excited Doom Diver
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(EDIT: Changed response)
So the closest equivalent in the rules is in the FAQ:
ADDITIONAL ATTACKS FOR A PAIR OF WEAPONS
If a model is equipped with two weapons that have an ability that
reads ‘Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 [name
of weapon], it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.’ (e.g.
Orks killsaws, Grey Knights nemesis falchions, Drukhari macro-
scalpels, etc.), that model only makes 1 additional attack, not 1 for
each specified weapon it is equipped with.
It doesn't explicitly cover things like chainswords, as those don't have the requirement that it's two of the same weapon, so technically it does work. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was clarified in a future revision.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/15 14:24:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/15 14:24:36
Subject: Re:Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Lieutenant General
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Irbis wrote:Why you can take a pistol and a rifle when you can't ever fire both?
There are times when you can fire a Pistol but no other weapons.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/15 14:32:29
Subject: Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Aelyn wrote:(EDIT: Changed response)
So the closest equivalent in the rules is in the FAQ:
ADDITIONAL ATTACKS FOR A PAIR OF WEAPONS
If a model is equipped with two weapons that have an ability that
reads ‘Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 [name
of weapon], it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.’ (e.g.
Orks killsaws, Grey Knights nemesis falchions, Drukhari macro-
scalpels, etc.), that model only makes 1 additional attack, not 1 for
each specified weapon it is equipped with.
It doesn't explicitly cover things like chainswords, as those don't have the requirement that it's two of the same weapon, so technically it does work. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was clarified in a future revision.
Completely different case. That FAQ was an answer to weapons that taken singularly didn't give +1A but taken in a pair they gave +2A RAW, instead of the intended +1A.
Single chainsword gives +1A instead. If it's possible to take a 2nd chainsword then that's another +1A. Just like lightning claws.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/16 00:36:44
Subject: Re:Dual Chainswords in 9th, +2 attacks?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Yes, taking two chainswords to get +2 attacks for 0 points is stupid. However, it does include the opportunity cost of the Pistol you didn't take to get the second chainsword.
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