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A question I can’t puzzle out: Mont’ka gives a bonus when shooting “the closest enemy unit.” What happens if a unit splits fire between the two closest units, and destroys the actual closest unit first? Would the shooting unit gain the bonus when shooting at what is now the closest unit as well, or is closest determined when selected?

I’ve been playing the latter, because we obviously don’t redetermine alll board state factors after casualty removal, but I’m curious what others think.

If you measure precisely you will find that two units are never really equidistant. One will always be slightly closer than the other.

However if you do not want to measure precisely and you and your opponent agree there are two units that are closest, well the rules really do not cover that situation because they assume there will only be one closest unit.(RAW There is no closest unit so no benefit from the rule).

In that situation that you agree there are two closest units, (HIWPI, I would just pick one to be the closest and go from there.)



Edit: But now that I look up Mont’ka it says: "...selected units can shoot as if they did not move this turn." it doesn't mention closest unit, is that an FAQ or something I missed?

He's not talking about 2 equ distant unit but first unit being destroyed first. He shoots at 2 units. Closest gets　vaporized. Does the previously further unit now counts as closest for buffs?

No, I believe this to be the case because range is measured only once when the weapons are declared.

As all weapons are measured before resolution there can only be one 'closest unit' so subsequent target units would not count as closest.

My tuppence worth

Andrew

You measure range once sure, but that doesn't generate a value for "closest unit" until you resolve that models attacks.

So I'd say yes

you dont get the extra AP into the second target.

They werent the closest target when you selected them and all the shots are happening at the same time.

When shooting you only measure range once, when choosing targets. As you don’t re-measure range later you can’t pick a “new closest target”.

You have range A to the closest target Unit A
Range B to the next target unit B
Say 4" and 6"

Nothing disappears or is lost. You still know these values
At the time model 1 shoots, you determine the closest target. It is unit A
(For expediency, you only have one shot weapons here)
Model 2 shoots, you determine the closest target. It is still unit A as it's not yet dead

....
....
Model N shoots, you determine the closest unit. Unit A does not exist any more, so it is definitively unit B . You know this because you still know the value of distance for unit B. It is not undefined, nor is it lost, it is retained info.

Prove otherwise. This at no point ever requires you to ever measure again to anyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
you dont get the extra AP into the second target.

They werent the closest target when you selected them and all the shots are happening at the same time.

Shots are not happening at the same time, they're resolved in order. That's why saves can change through the shooting sequence as models in or out of cover are selected.

Equally you don’t re-check range during Shooting so how do you square that?

You're not rechecking range
You're being told to answe the question "what is the closest unit"?
That question is asked every time a model in the unit attacks
At time N, you can answer that the question with unit B.

But you not being asked whether it is the closest unit at the point of rolling dice. The rule says Each time a model in this unit targets the closest eligible enemy unit.

Targeting is done before you even roll any dice, so even if the closest unit is wiped, any subsequent units shot at are not considered the closest because they weren't at the targeting stage.

Hmm, I see it as ambiguous then. It is model based, but closest" is a unit concepts.

 AndrewC wrote:
But you not being asked whether it is the closest unit at the point of rolling dice. The rule says Each time a model in this unit targets the closest eligible enemy unit.

Targeting is done before you even roll any dice, so even if the closest unit is wiped, any subsequent units shot at are not considered the closest because they weren't at the targeting stage.

That seems correct to me. What's the full text of the relevant rule? Seems like if it specifically mentions targeting as the trigger for the buff that would be a specific time window that's only checked once.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Hmm, I see it as ambiguous then. It is model based, but closest" is a unit concepts.

Thats the closest I'll ever get to a concession from you, isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:


That seems correct to me. What's the full text of the relevant rule? Seems like if it specifically mentions targeting as the trigger for the buff that would be a specific time window that's only checked once.

The rest is irrelevant as it only details the bonuses you get. There's no other caveats or conditions in it.

No need to be antagonistic
I read it as a model based rule, but measurement is unit based.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You're not rechecking range
You're being told to answe the question "what is the closest unit"?
That question is asked every time a model in the unit attacks
At time N, you can answer that the question with unit B.

Fair!

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No need to be antagonistic
I read it as a model based rule, but measurement is unit based.

Sorry Nos, wasn't meant to be read as antagonistic, just a light hearted jest.

You're normally spot on with your rules interpretations.

Ah ok, sorry!
Hopefully you can see the issue I see how - I think it's fine, and doesn't let a unit swap to a new "closest", but it's not the best.

Trouble with model and unit interactions, as we've seen in other threads!