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**aphyon**

If you have come to the point where you are centering your concerned about w/l ratio/power level percentage charts, i think you have entirely missed the point about what 40K is/was meant to be.
(current GW has already gotten there)

It has taken a very fun social past time and turned it into a stressful sporting or gambling event.

**Daedalus81**

aphyon wrote:
If you have come to the point where you are centering your concerned about w/l ratio/power level percentage charts, i think you have entirely missed the point about what 40K is/was meant to be.
(current GW has already gotten there)

It has taken a very fun social past time and turned it into a stressful sporting or gambling event.

That's not the point of those numbers.

The numbers give us a sense for what other people are feeling when they play. They don't have to be perfect, but they can't be this out of whack for 40K to be a "pickup" style game let alone competitive.

**auticus**

40k has been a stressful sporting event for a lot of places for a great many years now.

As a game it fails pretty hard unless you have a really good group that knows not to try to break the game.

**kirotheavenger**

When my Tau are blitzing the enemy off the table turn 1 such that they concede and go home, the state of 40k win/loss is actively depriving me of my fun social past time.

It's not even that I'm trying to be competitive, it's the same army I made in 5th edition, comprised of the units I think are coolest.
It just so happens that aligns with the flavour of the month.

Balance is extremely relevant to fun games as well.

**Eihnlazer**

so far from the glance-over on the nid codex i had, i've seen 2 actual nerfs, and a ton of buffs.

rippers no longer count as filling troop slots in your deployment (nerf).

Impaler cannons went down to str6 and 24" range, but gained a shot (nerf overall).

Synaptic buffs are once per game, but are overall mostly better than they used to be. All the big bugs got the buffs.

Small bugs got alot more deadly (alot).

Hive fleet adaptations are alot more even in power now (no longer just kraken or leviathan) and are far more flexable (but no more custom fleets).

No more crusher swarm, but you can run something similar.

Nuerothropes are beast, getting +1str/T/W and keeping the 3++. +1 to cast instead of reroll 1's. Heal damage for every mortal dealt instead of models killed. Synaptic hands out invun to other unit.

Zoans now do +1 mortal per model (caps at +3) on their smite which means you dont need to run big bricks of 6 anymore. They did loose their 3++ though (down to a 4++).

Tyranid prime is actually decent now, being able to pack a venom cannon and potentially being slotless.

Broodlord got cheaper and is mostly unchanged.

Stealers got ap-3 permanently and a 4++ in melee but got reduced in unit size.

All the gaunts went down to 20 max unit size but got a huge increase in base lethality.

All the spore units (harpies, biovores) changed so that you either deal mortals or you spawn, but the strength of output went up.

Pyrovores got a huge glowup, having 2 firing modes for its flamer.

Lictors are scary again. Mawlocks dont just pop up anymore (14 attacks at str7 ap-2 hitting on 3+).

Points costs were mostly reduced across the board.

**Insectum7**

So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

A Bolter is no better at killing an Ork than a Lasgun

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

CSM have 1W while Loyalists have 2

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

And a Land Raider Crusader costs $110, while the traditional one is $85.

I mean, I'm happy the Nids and Eldar are getting some nice buffs, but holy hell modern GW is a mess.

**Hecaton**

aphyon wrote:
If you have come to the point where you are centering your concerned about w/l ratio/power level percentage charts, i think you have entirely missed the point about what 40K is/was meant to be.
(current GW has already gotten there)

It has taken a very fun social past time and turned it into a stressful sporting or gambling event.

That drives sales. The suits won, remember that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Insectum7 wrote:
So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

A Bolter is no better at killing an Ork than a Lasgun

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

CSM have 1W while Loyalists have 2

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

And a Land Raider Crusader costs $110, while the traditional one is $85.

I mean, I'm happy the Nids and Eldar are getting some nice buffs, but holy hell modern GW is a mess.

You gotta pay good prices for good employees and GW refuses to do that for its designers.

**Umbros**

Insectum7 wrote:
So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

Not sure why any of these are a problem.

Necrons are more durable than Eldar guardians.

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

You can still have loads of gants, including in multiple squads...

Why should immortals be more resilient to small arms than SM? They are durable in different ways...

Lasguns can hurt land raiders? and?

Some of you just work yourself up so much....

**Hecaton**

Necron Warriors should honestly be T4 2w 3+ save.

**Dudeface**

Umbros wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

Not sure why any of these are a problem.

Necrons are more durable than Eldar guardians.

Guardians are up from a historic 5+ whereas warriors are down from a historic 3+

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

Again, historically they were assault 1 12" bolters, could be buffed to S5 in some editions. That parity is now lost for no real reason.

You can still have loads of gants, including in multiple squads...

Fine by me

Why should immortals be more resilient to small arms than SM? They are durable in different ways...

You're seeing a pattern here, historically an immortal was 1w t5 3+ with We'll Be Back (resurrection protocols of a sort). A marine was 1w t4 3+ and that was it.

Lasguns can hurt land raiders? and?

Meh I get both sides of this, it does kinda seem unrealistic having guardsmen drop titans with lasguns, but I also get that they want to avoid "oh this unit can't do anything, might as well go home" moments.

Some of you just work yourself up so much....

Yup!

**Sim-Life**

Umbros wrote:

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

Its a beetle fired via a muscle spasm vs a self-propelled explosive bullet. You tell me.

**jeff white**

Umbros wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

Not sure why any of these are a problem.

Necrons are more durable than Eldar guardians.

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

You can still have loads of gants, including in multiple squads...

Why should immortals be more resilient to small arms than SM? They are durable in different ways...

Lasguns can hurt land raiders? and?

Some of you just work yourself up so much....

You forgot so-called “primaris” …

And tho I see the two side to lasguns hurting land raiders, only one of them matters. So your guardsmen can’t do anything. Yup. Either hide or run, or find an objective to score… ideally with smart movement and placement, you can keep the tank from killing your dudes until you fulfill your mission. Else, run, or hide. Tough. It’s is a war game, not a card game… for me, this is the most ridiculous change to the system since free stuff for army composition.

**Arbiter_Shade**

Sim-Life wrote:
Umbros wrote:

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

Its a beetle fired via a muscle spasm vs a self-propelled explosive bullet. You tell me.

You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

**GFdoubles**

Hive fleet adaptations are alot more even in power now (no longer just kraken or leviathan) and are far more flexable (but no more custom fleets)

Just as an addendum to this, it looks like custom hive fleets do exist (pages 60-61 of the codex from the leaks I am seeing) but the way to create them is different. Honestly I am not a tyranid player and don't ever expect to be, but always interested in the new stuff. Looks like you choose two traits but similar to Tau, they have to be in a certain order or something or picked from two different tables. I am in the midst of reading it now, but the custom fleets are definitely there at least.

**H.B.M.C.**

Termagants and Hormagaunts can still come in units of 30. It's Gargoyles that are capped at 20, which means I suddenly have 4 full units. Or 3 and a half. Not sure.

I didn't realise the Prime can have heavy weapons. That's... interesting.

The Genestealer rules are baffling. Why'd we lose Advance/Charge?

**Sim-Life**

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Sim-Life wrote:
Umbros wrote:

Why shouldn't fleshborers be stronger?

Its a beetle fired via a muscle spasm vs a self-propelled explosive bullet. You tell me.

You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

I'm kind of sad for myself that what might be the best Tyranid codex in 20+ years is locked away behind an edition I hate playing.

**VladimirHerzog**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

The Genestealer rules are baffling. Why'd we lose Advance/Charge?

because they can now deploy 9" from the opponent

**H.B.M.C.**

Insectum7 wrote:
...holy hell modern GW is a mess.

The new 'Nid book is a case study in what people mean when they say they're sick of the bloat and also how "bespoke" rules haven't helped anything.

What do I mean by this? Well let's look at the humble Scything Talon, a staple of the Tyranids since their re-imagining in 3rd Edition 40k where Boneswords were adapted from held weapons to elongated claws (Boneswords would eventually return as a separate thing, confusing everything, but that's a different topic).

In this book, what is a Scything Talon?

Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same.
The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons.
The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons.
The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules.
Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons.
Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons.
Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done.
Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons.
Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons.

Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons.
The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors.
Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing.
We don't have the page for Trygons, but given the Prime, we can easily presume he'll have Trygon Scything Talons.
The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons.
The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway?
Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons.
Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons.
Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?

I'm convinced that different people wrote different entries in this book and at no point talked to one another.

**Insectum7**

^Holy goddamn hell.

**Eonfuzz**

Jesus christ, the statlines in this nid release makes me regret ever buying an Ork model.

**Tyel**

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

I mean before the inevitable list of possible buffs, you were doing 19.4% damage for your points into Intercessors with Fleshborers (given enough to maintain the reroll 1 to wound)... and now thats 23.8%. Not great. Equally you've gone up 40% in points to gain 1 extra armour save. Which is a bad exchange.

It fits GW's "we need everything to be more glass cannon" - but as said, not convinced it will be great. But they clearly decided they didn't want them sitting at 5 points being wound counters so needed to move fleshborers up in the world.

Its a bit like people looking at buffed up Hormagaunts. Yes its nice they can be choppy now (as opposed to being near completely pointless). But you are paying 8-11 points for something with a Guardsman's defensive profile. I feel they are going to die when things look in their direction - and at that points level you are going to notice.

**ccs**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
...holy hell modern GW is a mess.
The new 'Nid book is a case study in what people mean when they say they're sick of the bloat and also how "bespoke" rules haven't helped anything.

What do I mean by this? Well let's look at the humble Scything Talon, a staple of the Tyranids since their re-imagining in 3rd Edition 40k where Boneswords were adapted from held weapons to elongated claws (Boneswords would eventually return as a separate thing, confusing everything, but that's a different topic).

In this book, what is a Scything Talon?

Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same.
The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons.
The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons.
The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules.
Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons.
Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons.
Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done.
Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons.
Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons.
Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons.
The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors.
Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing.
We don't have the page for Trygons, but given the Prime, we can easily presume he'll have Trygon Scything Talons.
The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons.
The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway?
Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons.
Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons.
Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?

I'm convinced that different people wrote different entries in this book and at no point talked to one another.

Oh, sounds like I'm playing AoS - everyones sword/spear/lance/axe/hammer/bow/xbow/claw/fang/shield/etc is a specific thing - each of wich might function the same or completely differently. Long gone are units armed with the good old "hand weapon".

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Insectum7 wrote:
So to summarize recent years. . .

Eldar Guardians have the same armor as Necron Warriors

Fleshborers are stronger than Bolters

Gants (the swarm of swarms) are max unit size 20

A Bolter is no better at killing an Ork than a Lasgun

Space Marines are more resilient to small arms than Immortals

CSM have 1W while Loyalists have 2

Primaris

Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders

And a Land Raider Crusader costs $110, while the traditional one is $85.

I mean, I'm happy the Nids and Eldar are getting some nice buffs, but holy hell modern GW is a mess.

Which makes me think that GW is starting to believe their own lore. For instance, the insinuation that their poster children AREN'T the most powerful version is basically heresy.

**Hairesy**

The same hand weapon that is as effective as a chainsaw sword. Forgetting for a moment that a chainsaw is a horrible weapon, why does my ten thousand year old science experiment use what amounts to a Skaven spear in close combat?

**Insectum7**

Posting the Space Marines codex weapons list from 4th edition. . . for like, no reason whatsoever.

Totally unrelated, you know?

**Arbiter_Shade**

Tyel wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

I mean before the inevitable list of possible buffs, you were doing 19.4% damage for your points into Intercessors with Fleshborers (given enough to maintain the reroll 1 to wound)... and now thats 23.8%. Not great. Equally you've gone up 40% in points to gain 1 extra armour save. Which is a bad exchange.

It fits GW's "we need everything to be more glass cannon" - but as said, not convinced it will be great. But they clearly decided they didn't want them sitting at 5 points being wound counters so needed to move fleshborers up in the world.

Its a bit like people looking at buffed up Hormagaunts. Yes its nice they can be choppy now (as opposed to being near completely pointless). But you are paying 8-11 points for something with a Guardsman's defensive profile. I feel they are going to die when things look in their direction - and at that points level you are going to notice.

I feel like you are overstating things a bit when you put numbers out like "40% point increase" when that equals 60 points for an entire 30 gant squad. A 5+ save goes to a 4+ in cover, let alone the fact that with the abundance of AP-1 weapons you actually get a save at all now. I am by no means saying that gants are the new meta but it is very strange to see something that used to be a super basic infantry weapon into something on level with the Necrons base weapon.

I don't know how many more steps GW can take in this race to the bottom for lethality. I half expect guardsmen to be able to get 4 shots a piece at S4 Ap-1 at this point when their codex comes out. They gave marines 2W's to make them feel more like a powerful force on the table, which was a good idea IMO. But now they have countered that change by increasing everything's lethality to a level unseen even in 7th.

EDIT: Corrected the point difference. No idea where I was pulling the original 20 from. I blame lack of sleep.

**Arson Fire**

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Tyel wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

I mean before the inevitable list of possible buffs, you were doing 19.4% damage for your points into Intercessors with Fleshborers (given enough to maintain the reroll 1 to wound)... and now thats 23.8%. Not great. Equally you've gone up 40% in points to gain 1 extra armour save. Which is a bad exchange.

It fits GW's "we need everything to be more glass cannon" - but as said, not convinced it will be great. But they clearly decided they didn't want them sitting at 5 points being wound counters so needed to move fleshborers up in the world.

Its a bit like people looking at buffed up Hormagaunts. Yes its nice they can be choppy now (as opposed to being near completely pointless). But you are paying 8-11 points for something with a Guardsman's defensive profile. I feel they are going to die when things look in their direction - and at that points level you are going to notice.

I feel like you are overstating things a bit when you put numbers out like "40% point increase" when that equals 20 points for an entire 30 gant squad.

It's a 60 point increase for a 30 gant squad. Not 20 points.

**Ordana**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
...holy hell modern GW is a mess.
The new 'Nid book is a case study in what people mean when they say they're sick of the bloat and also how "bespoke" rules haven't helped anything.

What do I mean by this? Well let's look at the humble Scything Talon, a staple of the Tyranids since their re-imagining in 3rd Edition 40k where Boneswords were adapted from held weapons to elongated claws (Boneswords would eventually return as a separate thing, confusing everything, but that's a different topic).

In this book, what is a Scything Talon?

Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same.
The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons.
The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons.
The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules.
Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons.
Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons.
Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done.
Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons.
Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons.
Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons.
The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors.
Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing.
We don't have the page for Trygons, but given the Prime, we can easily presume he'll have Trygon Scything Talons.
The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons.
The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway?
Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons.
Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons.
Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?

I'm convinced that different people wrote different entries in this book and at no point talked to one another.

Because one model has a talon, which gives +1 attack and that model can switch it out for something else.
Another model also has a talon but it doesn't have weapon options so they bake the extra attacks into the profile, but then you need a different weapon because it no long should give +1 attack
And then there is another model that visually clearly has a talon, but for X reason you want it to have a different AP or D or whatever. So now you need another profile.

And the idea is that it gives you a dozen different knobs you can turn and tune. Changing on weapon without it cascading through the army. But since that is a knob that is generally rusted stuck and weapon profiles don't get balance changes its pointless bloat.

**EviscerationPlague**

Arson Fire wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Tyel wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
You know I am glad that my gaunts will be more than glorified wound counters for objective control but even I am searching for a reason for them to be S5 Ap-1...

It is cool, I am gonna enjoy it, but this power creep is getting ludicrous. I mean, it always was but I feel like my tipping point is now the fact that my favorite factions "las gun" is now S5 Ap-1.

I mean before the inevitable list of possible buffs, you were doing 19.4% damage for your points into Intercessors with Fleshborers (given enough to maintain the reroll 1 to wound)... and now thats 23.8%. Not great. Equally you've gone up 40% in points to gain 1 extra armour save. Which is a bad exchange.

It fits GW's "we need everything to be more glass cannon" - but as said, not convinced it will be great. But they clearly decided they didn't want them sitting at 5 points being wound counters so needed to move fleshborers up in the world.

Its a bit like people looking at buffed up Hormagaunts. Yes its nice they can be choppy now (as opposed to being near completely pointless). But you are paying 8-11 points for something with a Guardsman's defensive profile. I feel they are going to die when things look in their direction - and at that points level you are going to notice.

I feel like you are overstating things a bit when you put numbers out like "40% point increase" when that equals 20 points for an entire 30 gant squad.

It's a 60 point increase for a 30 gant squad. Not 20 points.

Which really isn't a lot

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
...holy hell modern GW is a mess.
The new 'Nid book is a case study in what people mean when they say they're sick of the bloat and also how "bespoke" rules haven't helped anything.

What do I mean by this? Well let's look at the humble Scything Talon, a staple of the Tyranids since their re-imagining in 3rd Edition 40k where Boneswords were adapted from held weapons to elongated claws (Boneswords would eventually return as a separate thing, confusing everything, but that's a different topic).

In this book, what is a Scything Talon?

Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same.
The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons.
The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons.
The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules.
Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons.
Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons.
Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done.
Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons.
Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons.
Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons.
The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors.
Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing.
We don't have the page for Trygons, but given the Prime, we can easily presume he'll have Trygon Scything Talons.
The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons.
The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway?
Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons.
Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons.
Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?

I'm convinced that different people wrote different entries in this book and at no point talked to one another.

That could've been solved with "Small Scything Talons", "Medium Scything Talons", and "Large Scything Talons".

However GW wouldn't like that because I don't have the proper attitude to make them all different names.

**H.B.M.C.**

Insectum7 wrote:
Posting the Space Marines codex weapons list from 4th edition. . . for like, no reason whatsoever.

And here's the summary of just Bolter weaponry from the Marine Codex and a couple of supplements. Again, for no reason whatsoever: