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Sunny Side Up wrote:

Karol wrote:
Eldar players who for months held the game in a grip of over 60% win rates, went insane as soon as they got replaced by IH as the top army.

I mean, the "players" didn't change. When Eldar were the hot stuff in 40K in 8th, people like Nick Nanavati and Mani Cheema were playing them. When IH were the hotness, they won the tournaments with them.

It's not like any long-term, genuine Eldar or IH or later Drukhari or whatever fans got any value or joy or worth out of the tournament crowd taking a turn at "their" army.

yeah, my wraith list in 8th really held the game in a grip of over 60%, Karol truly is as sharp as a marble when it comes to anything related to pointy ears

Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

Well, I'd have to actually see these leaks to decide if I believe them or not (source?), but considering how gw reacted to fw making the Legion Super Heavys T9, I seriously doubt it.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

Some Fortifications are 9 iirc. One miiiiight be 10.

But yes, it'd be nice if the occasional other model were higher. Monoliths in particular come to mind.

PenitentJake wrote:
I can't comment on your personal experiences, but I'm not sure this is entirely fair.

It's not, but the mods won't do anything about people hurling insults unless it's against their pet posters, so we kinda get to deal with it.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

Because melta should be vastly superior to autocannons and plasma against tough targets.

 vict0988 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

Because melta should be vastly superior to autocannons and plasma against tough targets.

Then they need to re-stat their weapons. Overcharged plasma is pretty close to melta anyway.

Hecaton wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

Because melta should be vastly superior to autocannons and plasma against tough targets.

Then they need to re-stat their weapons. Overcharged plasma is pretty close to melta anyway.

Totally an option for 10th, good point. I have been arguing for S10 Heavy 1 MM for a while anyway. The only real danger is S3 becoming too good relative to S4-5 weapons as more vehicles and monsters are changed to T8-10.

 vict0988 wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

idk if theyre true but if they are : GOOD.

I don't understand why GW is hellbent on never exceeding T8. USE YOUR fething FRAMEWORK DAMNIT

Because melta should be vastly superior to autocannons and plasma against tough targets.

Then they need to re-stat their weapons. Overcharged plasma is pretty close to melta anyway.

Totally an option for 10th, good point. I have been arguing for S10 Heavy 1 MM for a while anyway. The only real danger is S3 becoming too good relative to S4-5 weapons as more vehicles and monsters are changed to T8-10.

Where does this idea keep coming from that people are killing tanks with str 3-4 guns?
It is possible on paper. It doesn't happen in reality.

Dataslate coming next week, which of course means Nids will be dodging that bullet...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dataslate coming next week, which of course means Nids will be dodging that bullet...

do we have confirmation that the leaked Nids rules were the final codex version? Because so far it seems people are freaking out about something that still has potential to be changed

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dataslate coming next week, which of course means Nids will be dodging that bullet...

Was this mentioned in an article somewhere? Time for more Wack-a-Mole for overperforming tournament lists while ignoring everything else again?

Edit: Never mind. Found the article.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

I don't believe the video mentioned that T9 was across the spectrum, just on the new RDBT, and the person was speculating for BBs and LRBTs.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dataslate coming next week, which of course means Nids will be dodging that bullet...

Was this mentioned in an article somewhere? Time for more Wack-a-Mole for overperforming tournament lists while ignoring everything else again?

Edit: Never mind. Found the article.

Glad you found it - I hope you didn't hurl reading it like I did. I was about to blow my lid until I go to that last paragraph.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

do we have confirmation that the leaked Nids rules were the final codex version? Because so far it seems people are freaking out about something that still has potential to be changed

Nada, but I would be incredibly surprised if anything did change.

What of the Nids stuff are we thinking should get nerfed though? Maleceptors? I've seen a lot of people freak out about those but I'm not convinced they will truly be that degenerate outside of mathhammer.

Nids seem very strong, but very strong isn't enough to justify an immediate nerf.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
What of the Nids stuff are we thinking should get nerfed though? Maleceptors? I've seen a lot of people freak out about those but I'm not convinced they will truly be that degenerate outside of mathhammer.

Nids seem very strong, but very strong isn't enough to justify an immediate nerf.

I can't say that anything needs it - though I am uncertain of the relevancy of Crusher. It'd just be a damn shame to maybe fix things a bit and then get it stomped on again.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
What of the Nids stuff are we thinking should get nerfed though? Maleceptors? I've seen a lot of people freak out about those but I'm not convinced they will truly be that degenerate outside of mathhammer.

Nids seem very strong, but very strong isn't enough to justify an immediate nerf.

I can't say that anything needs it - though I am uncertain of the relevancy of Crusher. It'd just be a damn shame to maybe fix things a bit and then get it stomped on again.

I agree. I'd love to see an immediate FAQ on day of release that gets rid of Crusher (or in the unlikely event that they keep it, to tell us on the day of release also). I don't think we'll get that though.

If they make the heavy tank, no matter what the name of it is, T9, that basically means they make the Baneblade T10, which is hilarious. Get ready for the pendulum swing boys, we're going to plaid on this return.

You all complained the game was too killy, and now we're gonna pay for it!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make the heavy tank, no matter what the name of it is, T9, that basically means they make the Baneblade T10, which is hilarious. Get ready for the pendulum swing boys, we're going to plaid on this return.

You all complained the game was too killy, and now we're gonna pay for it!

A Baneblade is currently T8, same as a Leman Russ.

Why would it have to be higher Toughness than the new tank?

 Daedalus81 wrote:


Nada, but I would be incredibly surprised if anything did change.

quite a few things were changed in the Craftworlds codex from the leaked version, maybe nids will have a similar fate


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make the heavy tank, no matter what the name of it is, T9, that basically means they make the Baneblade T10, which is hilarious. Get ready for the pendulum swing boys, we're going to plaid on this return.

You all complained the game was too killy, and now we're gonna pay for it!

we're gonna pay for getting what we want?

buff defensive profiles of vehicles, thats all i want right now.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

quite a few things were changed in the Craftworlds codex from the leaked version, maybe nids will have a similar fate

Interesting - good to know - thanks!

I have to laugh at GW right now, they have an article up WHC on "what happened at AdeptiCon" (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/04/metawatch-40000-the-harlequins-performance-stole-the-show-at-adepticon/).

Their recommendation for dealing with Harlies?

Weapons like autocannons, missile pods, and heavy bolters sacrifice Strength and Armour Penetration for more Attacks, forcing extra save rolls from your opponent

WITH A PICTURE OF IMPERIAL GUARD!

WTF? do they think an autocannon, with 2 shots hitting on 5s is going to make a difference?

And when I say laugh, it's this laugh (Tom Hanks in The Money Pit): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKHvnn2fFE


edit: spelling

 JNAProductions wrote:
Well hey, Karol, you play GK. Just soup in some Black Templars if GK are bad! Or switch to White Scars!

You shouldn't simultaneously say "I play GK, and nothing else!" and "Eldar have it good-they can play as Eldar, DE, or Harlis based on what's good!"

Unlike everyone else, eldar are in the gracious situation where their soups, for some reason work no problems. Taking a harli detachment doesn't make you lose most of your rules, just because you have another one of DE or CWE. That is the difference. Can't even counts as GK as anything else, because no other army has melee power weapons and storm bolters on their dudes. Also comparing 3 months of GK being good to litteral years of eldar being good or broken is a bit odd.

Don't understand the WS proposition though. Why would anyone want to soup them in to make their army better? Unless of course you have some in depth knowladge about the changes coming soon.

LVO: If you only knew the power of the competitive meta. The Forums never told you what happened to Kaldor Draigo.
Karol : They told me enough! They told me *Eldar* killed him!
LVO: No. *I* abused GK all through late 5th, resulting in GW nerfing them into oblivion.
Karol : No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!

You know I actually did take a look at how the 5th ed GK looked like back in the past. And the so called Paladin star was a noob stomper list. The tournament winning stuff, was waves of razorbacks with upgraded ammo, 0 GK, maxed out dreadnoughts, an inquisitor that unlocked henchman as troops which made the psychic rhinos extremly cheap, because the henchman unit could be 3 man strong and cost some crazy low points or something.
And again GK being good at the end of 5th ed, pales in comperation to years of dominance of eldar in 3ed, 4th, 6th, 7th ,8th and now 9th. But I got used to selecetive memory. It is like half the marine players remembering 8th as if it was sm supplements and sm 2.0 codex on from day one.

I mean, the "players" didn't change.

I was talking about people who are not winning GT. Like eldar players on this forum. I remember the conclusion of one the the threads ending with someone claiming that eldar should have annoying rules which are unfun for opponents, because eldar are like that in the lore. Also oddly large number of proposition from that thread made it in to the codex. Invs on basic troops, upgraded shurikens etc.

brainpsyk wrote:
I have to laugh at GW right now, they have an article up WHC on "what happened at AdeptiCon" (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/04/metawatch-40000-the-harlequins-performance-stole-the-show-at-adepticon/).

Their recommendation for dealing with Harlies?

Weapons like autocannons, missile pods, and heavy bolters sacrifice Strength and Armour Penetration for more Attacks, forcing extra save rolls from your opponent

WITH A PICTURE OF IMPERIAL GUARD!

WTF? do they think an autocannon, with 2 shots hitting on 5s is going to make a difference?

And when I say laugh, it's this laugh (Tom Hanks in The Money Pit): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKHvnn2fFE


edit: spelling

GW literally doesn't play their own game

Racerguy180 803732 11338914 wrote:you forget Karol bought a bridge in Brooklyn when they purchased their army from the local hellmonger.

Starting a game thinking a company wouldn't sell a bad product for that much or that it wouldn't fix it and leave it bad for a long time, was not something I found possible at the age of 13. I have learned a lot since then. And I can to a large degree only blame myself. I really believed the whole stuff GW wrote about new units being playable and the whole play what you like. I still like how GK termintors look like. They are great models. But the army is extremly unfun to play in 9th right now. Thankfuly, but unwillingly I was brought in to the folds of AoS, and the game is much more fun with the army I got there. Even if it ain't no grand tournament clone list. And I play the same people who are suppose to be toxic and evil, yet somehow games are fun. A paradox.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


yeah, my wraith list in 8th really held the game in a grip of over 60%, Karol truly is as sharp as a marble when it comes to anything related to pointy ears

yes, because as we all know the games is played vs friends, in houses or flats specially bought to play w40k, on self build tables, where no one ever brings or buys meta armies. And that is why everyone, including the people who claim to never play with them or against them, cry out how broken all armies save theirs are.

Not getting the marble part.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
GW literally doesn't play their own game

they stopped playing their game by the time before Shadespire was made, so this is nothing new and should be known

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone believe the leaks coming out on Imperial Guard tanks? T9 across the Tank Spectrum as base, Baneblades likely higher, and all vehicles can shoot out of combat?

Can we create a new boogeyman? This horse is dead.

It’s not across the spectrum. It’s likely the Rogal Dorn and higher. So likely just the Macharius and Baneblades, as well as anything else on those hulls. The Russ and Malcador I’m almost certain will still be T8.

JNAProductions wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make the heavy tank, no matter what the name of it is, T9, that basically means they make the Baneblade T10, which is hilarious. Get ready for the pendulum swing boys, we're going to plaid on this return.

You all complained the game was too killy, and now we're gonna pay for it!

A Baneblade is currently T8, same as a Leman Russ.

Why would it have to be higher Toughness than the new tank?

Exactly. Baneblades have always had the same armour profile as Leman Russ: 14/13/12, and the same toughness since the change in 8th. Their added durability has always come from having more "wounds", be it "Structure Points", "Hull Points", or just "wounds". I doubt that would change. Fezzik is just trying to deflect attention from Custodes, again.

VladimirHerzog wrote:we're gonna pay for getting what we want?

buff defensive profiles of vehicles, thats all i want right now.

Except it's gw, so the increase will only apply to vehicles in the new codexes written under the "new paradigm", and won't for vehicles in codexes written before that shift in thinking. So we'll have the weird situation where Guard tanks are tougher than things like Land Raiders and Monoliths. I still won't believe it until I see it though. Gw really hates T9, they proved that in 8th.

Technically, a Baneblade has always had much better armor than the Leman Russ, given that the Russ was Rear 10 and the Baneblade was Rear 12.

The difference between "boltguns can hurt you" and "not even heavy bolters can hurt you" is a big one.

This difference was esp. significant in editions when CC attacks hit rear armor - it made the Baneblade considerably more durable than the Russ and much more resilient to front line combat where CC was likely.