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 alextroy wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
One thing we can be sure of is GW isn't going to give us rules options that don't have models. There will be no light/normal/heavy infantry because there are no such models. There will be no different types of lasguns because there is no such models.

We literally have rules for Lascarbines right now. They came with Gaunt's Ghosts(Corbec has one). Larkin's got rules for the Long-Las as well.

The one thing we can be sure of right now is that we cannot be sure of anything.

I'm pretty sure there are no other models outside of this squad armed with either of those weapons. Might as well be asking for all Space Marine Captains to have the Gauntlets of Ultramar as standard issue.... well, they can have just one gauntlet if they wear Gravis Armor.

Yes, there are no other models outside of this squad armed with either of those weapons...because we haven't really actually seen any meaningful releases.

We saw the Death Korps infantry squad(who, additionally, are known for using a nasty heavy Lasgun pattern to start with) and Tanith, plus two Catachan models that were to be Store Opening(Ripper Jackson) and Store Anniversary(Catachan Colonel; see spoiler) models

Do you know what I'm not holding my breath for? GW releasing AM Infantry Squad kits with 3 types of lasguns. These are not Space Marine we are talking about here! We already have a pretty good idea of what to expect from Infantry Squad kits from DKOK. Models that cover the current rules options plus cool bits and bobs for Kill Team.

So I'm going to save my wishlisting for something within the realm of possibilities

Cool, then I hope you're not expecting Heavy Weapon Teams.

Additionally, I'm not expecting all 3 types to be in a single set. I don't expect us to see a heavier variant in a stealther squad, for example.

 alextroy wrote:
Do you know what I'm not holding my breath for? GW releasing AM Infantry Squad kits with 3 types of lasguns. These are not Space Marine we are talking about here! We already have a pretty good idea of what to expect from Infantry Squad kits from DKOK. Models that cover the current rules options plus cool bits and bobs for Kill Team.

So I'm going to save my wishlisting for something within the realm of possibilities

But this technically exists already. Nearly every different regiment model in plastic, metal, or resin has a different lasgun pattern. We just need rules associated to them. HH actually has more rules for lasguns than it does for bolters.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

brainpsyk wrote:
* some kind of bonus when 2 or more units fire at the same target

I could see Guard getting the Crossfire ability GSC have. It's very thematic for us.

GW could just remove Overlapping Fields of Fire as a Stratagem and then use it as the name for our own Crossfire ability. Then just replace the unique Cadian stratagem with Vengeance for Cadia. It always seemed weird that potentially some foreign regiment on the other side of the galaxy would have such strong emotions for Cadia.

 alextroy wrote:
Do you know what I'm not holding my breath for? GW releasing AM Infantry Squad kits with 3 types of lasguns.

A few years ago, if someone had told me that tacticool infiltrator space marines wearing Crysis-inspired nanosuit power armor would become a thing I would have laughed into their faces. Or SM tanks mounting friggin' heavy stubbers. That's just ridiculous. Yet here we are...

Space Marines aren't wearing Crisis suits though. Phobos armour is based on Scout Carapace armour.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Space Marines aren't wearing Crisis suits though. Phobos armour is based on Scout Carapace armour.

Totally.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Space Marines aren't wearing Crisis suits though. Phobos armour is based on Scout Carapace armour.

Totally.

Ah yes, because Phobos armour looks more like this:


And not this:


And as a reminder, Reivers since they were the OG Phobos unit and have the most open poses:


Like the only point of comparison is maybe the abs, but looking at the recent animation that's just the underlying skinsuit that they wear that acts as a secondary layer of muscle as well as a vaccum seal.

They look more like power-armour-gone-Crysis than they do Scouts

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Space Marines aren't wearing Crisis suits though. Phobos armour is based on Scout Carapace armour.

Phobos Armour is one of the several different "modules" of Mark X Tacitus.

It isn't based on one thing or another, outside of the idea of having a modular armour system.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Space Marines aren't wearing Crisis suits though. Phobos armour is based on Scout Carapace armour.

Phobos Armour is one of the several different "modules" of Mark X Tacitus.

It isn't based on one thing or another, outside of the idea of having a modular armour system.

GW repeats visual designs a lot though, like the smaller shoulder pads, unarmored abdominal section, pouches strapped to the chests, and the similar boot design and how the Incursors have the same mono-visor of the scouts too.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Like the only point of comparison is maybe the abs

They are literally the exact same abs that were ridiculed in Crysis too:

Again, if somebody had told me that this would become a thing, I would have laughed. It ain't so funny now. If GW thinks that each Infantry Squad box should have 9 different types of lasguns because they can sell more plastic for more money or whatever then they will fit 9 lasguns into the Infantry Squad box. In fact, they will likely make up the Intermentor Squad that is 10 times more awesome than the Infantry Squad and it has those 9 lasguns, each better than the standard one the Infantry Squad gets, making the Infantry Squad utterly irrelevant. And Intermentor Guardsmen will have S4 and T4 because they are that awesome. Now that's what I call "realistic".

 AtoMaki wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Like the only point of comparison is maybe the abs

They are literally the exact same abs that were ridiculed in Crysis too:

Spoiler:

Nah, the 40k ones look more like a tire.

For me, the future of the Guard is mediocrity.

It was once the gun line army, then Tau took that place.

It was once considered the "spam loads of troops" army but then Tyranids, Orks and Tau also made that viable.

It was once considered the mechanised army but then Drukhari, Tau, Space Marines all got in on the action.

So what is left? It's the historical army. It's that WW2 army you wanted to play but everyone else wanted to use super soldiers. Its the army that doesn't get the support of Space Marines, doesn't get the cool toys like [Insert whichever opponent there is in the main box set] and the army that has some of the oldest set of models that isn't worth the redesign.

It's the army that's easiest to copy and proxy, and the hardest to change to avoid that.

Yes I know, a sceptical approach from an old guard player but sadly a true one. So what would fix it? Tanks!

The guard are most synonymous with tanks. These tanks are stupidly overpriced in today's game and as such, I think Guard need only 2 changes to fix things:

Lower the points costs of the tanks (by a lot)
Improve the BS to 3+ (all of them)

I don't see GW doing either of those.

I could see them pulling -1 damage for all tanks because 'lower tech = reliable' according to the fluff in their heads.

I like the idea of going back to the Platoons - if not doing exactly that, making PL's a "non-Force-Org slot" unit like Kroot Shapers or Company vets. 1 per platoon, basically. Company commanders would still have to be 1 per detachment, I guess, but allow HQ squads the same.

On the tanks, the Demolisher and Vanquisher cannons really need fixing. Maybe the Autocannon version too. Making Demo cannons D3 wounds +1 mortal on a successful wound roll would make them better vs infantry. The Vanquisher is going to need some kind of fix almost like what the railgun got - 2 shots, D3+3 damage or something. Add a new mechanic that scales AP with wound roll? So flat -2 AP, but on a 4 it's -3, 5 it's -4, 6 it's -5? I'm just spitballing here. The autocannon version of the Leman Russ needs the Predator improvement - you can leave it heavy 4, S7, AP-1, but damage has to go up or price has to go down.
Defensively, the Leman Russes having a 2+ save is good, and I'd give them an "Iron Behemoth" rule that reduces damage by 1, just like Spehss Muhreen Dreads.

Transports are... well. They're free "Bring it down" points for the opponent in this edition. And they cost too many points for what they do. Either make them faster, give them the "Assault vehicle" rule, or make them cheaper.

I want to see the Baneblade (and all its variants) get a 2+ save and a "Blessed by the Emperor" rule (or whatever, you make up a name if you're so smart) that reduces incoming damage by 1, reduces AP by 1, and something else. Maybe a 5+ save vs Mortal wounds or something. Just because they're special. They should still be 4+ BS though It doesn't have to make sense anymore, I don't think.

I have more thoughts, but these are the only ones I can pull out through my fingertips at the moment.

They could be the faction that can actually use fortifications, imagine if you could set up an extra ~12 inches up the board putting in defensive bunkers/sandbags with guardsmen. I think that would be pretty useful, especially if defensive turrets on those came back that could like overwatch units charging into those fortifications.

Voss wrote:
I don't see GW doing either of those.

I could see them pulling -1 damage for all tanks because 'lower tech = reliable' according to the fluff in their heads.

I mean, it kind of makes sense?

Less intricate and sensitive parts gives a level of reliability over stupidly complex and finnicky in Real Life(tm).

For my part, narratively, I need a second in command HQ.

The current dex uses Platoon Commanders as elites.

This was hard in our campaign, because there were nine IG territories, and each one needed a detachment to defend it.

Nine company level commanders did not make a bit of narrative sense, but they were the only option, because Platoon commanders weren't actually HQ.

The same problem used to exist for sisters, but the 9th dex brought Palatines back.

I'm hoping the IG dex gives us a lesser HQ,

PenitentJake wrote:
For my part, narratively, I need a second in command HQ.

The current dex uses Platoon Commanders as elites.

This was hard in our campaign, because there were nine IG territories, and each one needed a detachment to defend it.

Nine company level commanders did not make a bit of narrative sense, but they were the only option, because Platoon commanders weren't actually HQ.

The same problem used to exist for sisters, but the 9th dex brought Palatines back.

I'm hoping the IG dex gives us a lesser HQ,

Honestly if anything, they should go *up" a tier. It varies in the fluff but say Regimental HQ/Colonel - Major - Company Commander - Platoon Commander. So in the campaign you are discussing, it would be the full regiment sending various companies out, with the regimental officers overseeing the entire operations but each company commander having control of their specific units.

The saddest part is that we actually had a bloody good representation of this at one point. It came from Chapter Approved back in the day; WD308(UK).

High Commander - The Tactica Imperium states that High Command officers should only ever take to the field of battle in the most exceptional of circumstances, for their value to the strategic battle is exponentially greater than any effort they may make on the front line. However, the Tactica does state that every officer in the Emperor's armies should be willing and able to lead from the front lines at all times of great nee, with their presence they will bolster the morale of the men and facilitate victory when all other options are exhausted. When such officers take to the field, they are often accompanied by a personal staff of retainers and bodyguards, to better fulfil their Emperor-given duty.

I don't have the WD issue anymore, but I distinctly remember that you got Stormtroopers as Bodyguards rather than "Veteran" Guardsmen. It was a hell of a setup.

What's really cool is that these are tweaks I predict we will actually get- most dexes have had upgrades for top level commanders, and most armies who were previously single tier HQs have received a second level of command as a datacard.

It ain't a slam dunk, but I think it's quite likely.

Platoon Commanders are likely to be a 2 per slot option going forward. Wouldn't be shocked to see a thing similar to the Techpriests either.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Platoon Commanders are likely to be a 2 per slot option going forward.

I was going to say the same thing. I see a high possibility of GW giving the Platoon Commander the Lieutenant treatment with a 2-for-1 HQ Slot treatment. I wouldn't even be shocked for them to do the reserve and give them a free 1-per-x <Regiment> Core Infantry unit treatment not unlike other sub-command units.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The saddest part is that we actually had a bloody good representation of this at one point. It came from Chapter Approved back in the day; WD308(UK).

High Commander - The Tactica Imperium states that High Command officers should only ever take to the field of battle in the most exceptional of circumstances, for their value to the strategic battle is exponentially greater than any effort they may make on the front line. However, the Tactica does state that every officer in the Emperor's armies should be willing and able to lead from the front lines at all times of great nee, with their presence they will bolster the morale of the men and facilitate victory when all other options are exhausted. When such officers take to the field, they are often accompanied by a personal staff of retainers and bodyguards, to better fulfil their Emperor-given duty.

I don't have the WD issue anymore, but I distinctly remember that you got Stormtroopers as Bodyguards rather than "Veteran" Guardsmen. It was a hell of a setup.

I believe an upgrade was in the 4th Ed Guard Book, too. The HQ Squad had several levels of commander that could be purchased for it. Partly because a form of this unit was to be used as the core squad of the Platoon. Even then, it had several upgrades beyond the Platoon's commander.

PenitentJake wrote:
For my part, narratively, I need a second in command HQ.

The current dex uses Platoon Commanders as elites.

This was hard in our campaign, because there were nine IG territories, and each one needed a detachment to defend it.

Nine company level commanders did not make a bit of narrative sense, but they were the only option, because Platoon commanders weren't actually HQ.

The same problem used to exist for sisters, but the 9th dex brought Palatines back.

I'm hoping the IG dex gives us a lesser HQ,

Aside from the fluff/Real Life rank/name changes that's not horrible - tho some accomadation might be necessary before every army is bogged down in HQ's Imagine Space Marines needing 9 captains - you're most of the way to a full chapter narratively, and so on and who knows what to do if they take over two territories and now need 11 captains . One of the issues might be you don't have a General/Marshall as well. Add a Datasheet or Company Command to get you Levels of HQ commanders - I'd lean towards the Regimental/Company Command - you can have one General, one Colonel, etc.that you make out of the Commander/Tank Commander Datasheets.

Sumilidon wrote:
For me, the future of the Guard is mediocrity.

It was once the gun line army, then Tau took that place.

It was once considered the "spam loads of troops" army but then Tyranids, Orks and Tau also made that viable.

It was once considered the mechanised army but then Drukhari, Tau, Space Marines all got in on the action.

So what is left? It's the historical army. It's that WW2 army you wanted to play but everyone else wanted to use super soldiers. Its the army that doesn't get the support of Space Marines, doesn't get the cool toys like [Insert whichever opponent there is in the main box set] and the army that has some of the oldest set of models that isn't worth the redesign.

It's the army that's easiest to copy and proxy, and the hardest to change to avoid that.

Yes I know, a sceptical approach from an old guard player but sadly a true one. So what would fix it? Tanks!

The guard are most synonymous with tanks. These tanks are stupidly overpriced in today's game and as such, I think Guard need only 2 changes to fix things:

Lower the points costs of the tanks (by a lot)
Improve the BS to 3+ (all of them)

I am in line with your feeling about mediocrity being the future (and present !) positionning of the Imperial Guard rules. You nailed it. I have so little hope for our next codex, and still I'm preparing myself to be underwhelmed.

The models : we have crudely inspired tanks that rehash real tanks from WW1 and early WW2. these designs evolved so little from 2nd edition. The sprues have been barely redone (mostly regrouped and simplified) in 5th edition, and we are left with trapezoidal simplistic oldies, while other codexes have got neat looking creations. the only novelty IG had was the awful, convoluted Taurox.


I would love to see a rehabilitation of our infantry, but with Robin Cruddace still heading the rules, what we will probably get is focus on tanks, tanks and tanks. I doubt we would get significant point rebates though. As for the BS3+, I suspect we will have our LRBT tank commanders reduced to 1 per detachment, as they do with many recent codexes (Tau, Tyranids). So fewer BS3+.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

I would love to see a rehabilitation of our infantry, but with Robin Cruddace still heading the rules, what we will probably get is focus on tanks, tanks and tanks. I doubt we would get significant point rebates though. As for the BS3+, I suspect we will have our LRBT tank commanders reduced to 1 per detachment, as they do with many recent codexes (Tau, Tyranids). So fewer BS3+.

As long as LRBTs are fixed, fewer BS3 shouldn't be a problem. TCs are a crutch we have to lean on because they are one of the 2 datasheets that have play in 9th.

I can hang with the "tanks, tanks and tanks". Somebody is going to get the short end of my 17 LRBTs

Seeing as how it's something of a banality now, make Lasguns S4,and give them a sliding "To wound" modifier based off how many Flashlights hit the target (Say +1 per 5). So if a whole max squad of conscripts fire on a Warboss, and takes 15 hits, each one hit's with a +3 to wound.

Then make them ignore invulns if more than 15 shots hit the same target. Actually, give them a strategy that does the same thing. If Abbadon get's his 15 times with lasgun shots in a single turn, they all wound on 3's and only FNP can stop the wounds. Make it 3CP and call it "Target fix" or some other nonsense.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Seeing as how it's something of a banality now, make Lasguns S4,and give them a sliding "To wound" modifier based off how many Flashlights hit the target (Say +1 per 5). So if a whole max squad of conscripts fire on a Warboss, and takes 15 hits, each one hit's with a +3 to wound.

Then make them ignore invulns if more than 15 shots hit the same target. Actually, give them a strategy that does the same thing. If Abbadon get's his 15 times with lasgun shots in a single turn, they all wound on 3's and only FNP can stop the wounds. Make it 3CP and call it "Target fix" or some other nonsense.

That's a joke, right?