Fixing Guard and You

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**BlackoCatto**

Says something about the state of Guard when Mordian Glory is slowly becoming a Bolt Action channel now, only shortly after that one Guard video.

**waefre_1**

TBF he may have made that video a while ago and only released it when he did to plug a gap in his schedule or something.

That said, it is kind of funny to see him start turning into the "IG: for when you'd rather play historicals" meme.

**Jarms48**

BlackoCatto wrote:
Says something about the state of Guard when Mordian Glory is slowly becoming a Bolt Action channel now, only shortly after that one Guard video.

Yep. Was a little sad to see the majority of his recent videos are all Bolt Action, but hey, just goes to show how bad Guard are in the meta right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

brainpsyk wrote:
Or let Chimera's have the Predator Autocannon :-D.

And that's why I want Platoons back, with Orders being Auras that affect the entire platoon (including dedicated Transports, or attached LRBTs).

Heavy Flamer in the hull, Predator AC in the turret, coordinated firing at a target with the nearby infantry. Combined arms WWII vs. Aliens.

Nah, new Chimera Kit that can assemble:
- 1 Chimera; 1 Chimerro; 1 Chimerax; or 1 Chimedon.

Would be a great addition for regular Guard. Chimerro has a turret multi-laser and a hunter-killer missile system, so rather than just one rocket it can hold and fire multiple. Chimerax is basically a discount Hydra, just packs 4 turret autocannons. While the Chimedon comes with a battle cannon.

**Tygre**

There was a Forgeworld Chimera variant with an autocannon, others with heavy bolters in the turret also.

**carldooley**

Tygre wrote:
There was a Forgeworld Chimera variant with an autocannon, others with heavy bolters in the turret also.

I know about the autocannon, and the heavy bolter is in the current kit. If I recall correctly, there was a FW TL Heavy Bolter turret available too.

**waefre_1**

carldooley wrote:
Tygre wrote:
There was a Forgeworld Chimera variant with an autocannon, others with heavy bolters in the turret also.

I know about the autocannon, and the heavy bolter is in the current kit. If I recall correctly, there was a FW TL Heavy Bolter turret available too.

You're right, they used to make one. It's now OOP, of course, but fortunately the twin HB turrets from the Baneblade kit fit in the slot for the regular Chimera turret (and are about the same scale, if slightly shorter).

**Kanluwen**

Jarms48 wrote:
BlackoCatto wrote:
Says something about the state of Guard when Mordian Glory is slowly becoming a Bolt Action channel now, only shortly after that one Guard video.

Yep. Was a little sad to see the majority of his recent videos are all Bolt Action, but hey, just goes to show how bad Guard are in the meta right now.

Or how ridiculous it was to have a dedicated youtube channel to one specific faction in one specific game?

Or how there's not really too much to actually discuss about Guard, period, because there has not really been anything "NEW" to discuss?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Lets be honest here. GW isn't radically re-inventing any major vehicles for guard. They are not investing the time and money into making new Sprus for the least used unit in the game. (Pred cannon on a chimera). Just be honest. Guard will very likely be either Broken as all hell, or worthless, on launch. They either need a complete faction re-design (Unlikely) or a new dynamic unit that is totally broken (also unlikely). So they will likely get the ugly shaft of being the last faction out of the edition gate, and have a mercifully short window of suckiness before 10th drops.

**waefre_1**

Now now, let's not sell GW short - they could definitely write the IG 'dex so poorly that we keep sucking well into 10th (and then skip us for a codex that edition because apparently GW learned nothing from 3rd-7th).

**Charistoph**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Lets be honest here. GW isn't radically re-inventing any major vehicles for guard. They are not investing the time and money into making new Sprus for the least used unit in the game. (Pred cannon on a chimera). Just be honest. Guard will very likely be either Broken as all hell, or worthless, on launch. They either need a complete faction re-design (Unlikely) or a new dynamic unit that is totally broken (also unlikely). So they will likely get the ugly shaft of being the last faction out of the edition gate, and have a mercifully short window of suckiness before 10th drops.

Of course, they've released models for least used units, and stats to make them desired, before. So that's a bit of a far call.

However, I think it is more dependent on how many Chimera boxes they have left to sell, and how well the mold is holding up, rather than an apathy for a perceived lack of tournament presence. They are a model business first, after all.

**ccs**

Kanluwen wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
BlackoCatto wrote:
Says something about the state of Guard when Mordian Glory is slowly becoming a Bolt Action channel now, only shortly after that one Guard video.

Yep. Was a little sad to see the majority of his recent videos are all Bolt Action, but hey, just goes to show how bad Guard are in the meta right now.

Or how ridiculous it was to have a dedicated youtube channel to one specific faction in one specific game?

Or how there's not really too much to actually discuss about Guard, period, because there has not really been anything "NEW" to discuss?

There's always something new (to someone) to discuss. Maybe it's not new to you, but that new guy who jumped in a few weeks ago? It's all new & discussable to him....

**Irbis**

Kanluwen wrote:
Or how ridiculous it was to have a dedicated youtube channel to one specific faction in one specific game?

You wot?

There are literally dozens of channels dedicated to single team in sub-league of bigger league of a lot of sports (just check how many are dedicated to say Chelsea FC, NY Giants, or Red Bull F1 team), this argument makes no sense. Even in wargaming you can find multiple channels/reddits/toks dedicated to single faction and last time I checked, they thrive no problem. Trying to blame one of the most popular factions in 40K is just asinine when even one community on niche social platform has tens of thousands of users, that's plenty enough audience for multiple channels not just one, and that's just tiny fraction of IG fans:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/

Kanluwen wrote:
Or how there's not really too much to actually discuss about Guard, period, because there has not really been anything "NEW" to discuss?

Nonsense. Not only there are hints of multiple new units (plus leaks) but a simple discussion of IG place in changing meta (say, how to deal with new Tau/Eldar/CSM/Tyranids) is plenty of material for weeks of content. If people don't discuss it it's because the enthusiasm and drive is largely gone (how many times you can say 'broken xeno gak wins virtually by default unless opponent sucks or you roll only 6s and even then it's uphill fight' without getting tired?) not because there is "nothing new" to talk about. There is plenty.

**Jarms48**

Tygre wrote:
There was a Forgeworld Chimera variant with an autocannon, others with heavy bolters in the turret also.

Yep. This and the twin heavy bolter versions should just be added to the regular kit.

**The_Real_Chris**

Jarms48 wrote:

Nah, new Chimera Kit that can assemble:
- 1 Chimera; 1 Chimerro; 1 Chimerax; or 1 Chimedon.

Would be a great addition for regular Guard. Chimerro has a turret multi-laser and a hunter-killer missile system, so rather than just one rocket it can hold and fire multiple. Chimerax is basically a discount Hydra, just packs 4 turret autocannons. While the Chimedon comes with a battle cannon.

We playtested these ideas a few times in the last edition. If 9th was fun would dust them off...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/784756.page

A lot of this was inspired by the old campaign books where variant lists would be thrown out for that campaign. I did love the 13th crusade one.

Fast Attack choice
Armageddon pattern Spectre (authorised Chimera Variant 2197.14C)
The Spectre is made with small variations on many major Chimera producing worlds, but the lack of a commonly agreed complete STC has prevented it from achieving wider manufacture or the honour of construction at a sanctified Forge World. The defining characteristic is the move of the turret back towards the centre of gravity of the vehicle, with a turret ring and basket at same level of sophistication as a Leman Russ tank. The resultant increase in accuracy is paid for by the reduction in size of the troop hold. The type remains a popular scout or cavalry tank option for mechanised formations, able to outpace the more lumbering Guard tanks and keep up with the troop transports.
Stats as per Chimera bar the transport capacity being reduced to 6.
Turreted weapon may fire on the move without a -1 to hit.
Turret weapons include Hve Flamer, Multilaser, Hve Bolter, Twin Hvy Bolter, Autocannon and Lascannon.

The Flamer, bolter and laser options were included to allow you to use stock chimera to fill up fast attach choices which could be an issue in the last edition - the real choices were the heavier weapons which were converted Infantry guns.

This was just the 'set back' turret design you can easily kitbash and I have a load of.

Dedicated transports
Armageddon Pattern Chimera, Gryphonne variant
In M37 two years of Armageddon’s Chimera output was bartered with Gryphonne IV in return for access to their unique Chimera turrets. While the majority of the necessary information was transferred, overconfidence on the part of the Tech Priests representing Armageddon resulted in an incomplete implementation. Despite their best efforts the turret basket remains significantly larger than a standard Armageddon pattern Chimeras, with consequent limits to transport capacity. Still as one of the few sources of the turret following the destruction of the Forge World the deal is seen as one of the few redeeming decisions of the previous planetary dynasty.
Transport capacity reduced to 10, but the turret may mount an autocannon or twin heavy bolter at the standard costs.

Just a fun bit of fluff for our Armageddon games.

Heavy Support
Armageddon pattern Spectre, Chimedon/Chimerax/Chimerro variant
More extreme variants of the Spectre. The crew is concerned almost entirely with the complex weapon system housed in an enlarged turret. The Chimedon carries a conqueror cannon, the Chimerax quad autocannon and the Chimerro a standard multilaser paired with an autoloading Hunter Killer missile system. Most patterns entirely forgo the transport capability in favour of increased ammunition, however familiarity of building the chimera has meant the Armageddon pattern retains a small, cramped, transport space with only slight impacts on ammunition levels.
The Chimedon grew out of an STC fragment that seemingly showed a battlecannon fitted to a Chimera. Despite efforts on numerous forgeworlds this has never been successfully replicated. Some regard it as a hoax or elaborate heresy. Others point out the successful mating of a conqueror cannon to a Spectre variant as evidence that the fragment was wrongly interpreted.
The Chimerax is a relatively rare variant of a Hydra that has grown out of production factories where the technology to replicate the complex targeting systems has been lost. The fact the vehicle still operates without this is seen as divine blessing by many enginseers, if not tech priests. On Armageddon damaged factories abound that can no longer produce Hydra, but Chimerax can act as stand in against primitive Ork aircraft and is indeed better against the typical light vehicles that bedevil steel legion columns.
The Chimerro simply takes the practice of carrying Hunter Killer missiles to its logical extreme, and mounts lots. Some versions use rack after rack of missiles waiting to be fired, though these are at risk of damage from stray rounds. More sophisticated vehicles mount the reloading systems typical found in rearming depots to replace missiles almost as soon as they are fired. In practice firepower is limited to the speed crews can find, mark and engage targets that are worthy of their sanctified missiles.
Stats as per Chimera bar the transport capacity being reduced to 4.
Turreted weapon may fire on the move without a -1 to hit.
Base cost 60 points, then add points depending on hull weapon and turret weapons
Chimedon Conqueror cannon – 25 points
Chimerax Quad Autocannon – 30 points
Chimerro Multilaser and D3 hunter killer missiles each time it fires - 20 points

Our versions of the old epic vehicles, have actually made one of each (my Chimedon looks rubbish though...).

If doing it again would probably be inspired by light AA vehicles and have quad Heavy Stubbers to not step on the Hydra's toes and look more like the old quad 20mm's.

And to top it off...

Extra Vehicle Equipment
A positive to the continuous warfare plaguing Armageddon has been the discovery of buried archotech and other wonders as war churns the landscape. One of the most startling is the knowledge to create superior Hunter Killer missile targeting subroutines. The fortunes of war meant a mere 28 years were spent debating and testing the merits of the changed programming and many factories now produce this variant, delivering them straight to where the fighting is most fluid.

Armageddon pattern Hunter killer Missile – 5pts, the missile always hits on a 4+ (no modifiers, re-rolls, etc.)

Infantry Vox – 3pts (Chimera and variants only). This vehicles Vox has been boosted and interfaces added in the troop compartment. Units being transported count as being within 3” of a vox and may issue and receive orders. Due to the ‘robust’ construction of a Chimera the vox can only be used to send or receive one order and it cannot be used if the vehicle advanced in the movement phase. For anything that requires line of sight the transported unit may trace this from the vehicle.

**BlackoCatto**

I'm honestly happy he has more Bolt Action content, finally covering a better game.

**carldooley**

Any possibility that the Baneblade and Shadowsword variants will see points comparable to the Stormblade? Eg, 20 point sponsons, and a general point decrease across the board?

**Dysartes**

Irbis wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Or how there's not really too much to actually discuss about Guard, period, because there has not really been anything "NEW" to discuss?

Nonsense. Not only there are hints of multiple new units (plus leaks) but a simple discussion of IG place in changing meta (say, how to deal with new Tau/Eldar/CSM/Tyranids) is plenty of material for weeks of content. If people don't discuss it it's because the enthusiasm and drive is largely gone (how many times you can say 'broken xeno gak wins virtually by default unless opponent sucks or you roll only 6s and even then it's uphill fight' without getting tired?) not because there is "nothing new" to talk about. There is plenty.

It's not often I agree with Irbis, but he is correct here - at the very least, there's new material to discuss about the Guard each time a new 'dex drops, and even when a new mission pack drops, not to mention CA for points changes and the annual PL update. Possible discussion points when a "balance" dataslate is released, too.

Even if nothing is happening to the Guard directly, there are indirect discussion points.

**Kanluwen**

Not enough to maintain a steady stream of Patreon donations or channels.

**DeadliestIdiot**

I feel like we're going to be last to get a 9th codex...well... I guess we'll just keep holding the line then *cries softly into his lasgun*

Back on topic though: I can't remember if this was suggested or not, but make FRFSRF reroll hit and wound rolls rather than go to RF2. Although at this point, given the stupid levels of power in 9th, having FRFSRF change the lasgun profile to assault 1 autohit probably wouldn't be OP compared to what's out there -_- (although it would hilariously break conscripts, so maybe it would be OP haha).

If squats don't get a separate codex (assuming they are, in fact, coming to regular 40k), having them as elite power-armor-wearing heavy infantry that are good at shooting might be interesting (they deserve their own codex, but the lore would certainly support a guard auxiliary role).

An update to the officio assasinorum would also be beneficial... having a worthwhile vindicare to take out enemy snipers (I'm looking at you eldar) would be really handy. Considerably improving ratlings would also be helpful, of course (it's been awhile since I looked at their datasheet, so I don't know what improvements could be made offhand).

The ability to issue orders from within a transport (at no CP cost) and having bodyguard rules would also help with snipers, of course and I'm pretty sure both have been mentioned already.

Overall, as I learn more and more about 9th, I'm coming to the conclusion that buffing the stat lines will be pointless in the end, 9th edition power seems to be reliant on special rules (which I'm sure many of you already knew, but I was late to the party heh)

Hopefully 10th edition will claw the power back down to reasonable levels rather than continue this janky lurching power creep

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

carldooley wrote:
Any possibility that the Baneblade and Shadowsword variants will see points comparable to the Stormblade? Eg, 20 point sponsons, and a general point decrease across the board?

The Volcano cannon will likely be a duplicate of the Knight version, with some form of "Anti-titan" targeting rule built into the Shadowsword platform. It would be weird to give them an entirely different version of the exact same gun. I am thinking the current version isn't bad at all, but it needs some ability to punch through. -1 to invuln rolls? That would be interesting. Instead of invalidating them, it makes them just 1 less than the roll.

**waefre_1**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
carldooley wrote:
Any possibility that the Baneblade and Shadowsword variants will see points comparable to the Stormblade? Eg, 20 point sponsons, and a general point decrease across the board?

The Volcano cannon will likely be a duplicate of the Knight version, with some form of "Anti-titan" targeting rule built into the Shadowsword platform. It would be weird to give them an entirely different version of the exact same gun. I am thinking the current version isn't bad at all, but it needs some ability to punch through. -1 to invuln rolls? That would be interesting. Instead of invalidating them, it makes them just 1 less than the roll.

IIRC we already have "+1 to-hit vs TITANIC" baked into the Shadowsword's profile, though I'm sure that feels rather limp at the moment. Not sure if there's much else that we could do to the chassis, assuming the rest of the titan-killing rules are kept on the Volcano Cannon itself (it would be funny to grant the pintle heavy stubber the same anti-Titan rules as the VC/sponson LCs, but that's probably a road best left untravelled)

**Kanluwen**

They already had to FAQ the Shadowsword Targeters once because it was giving +1 to hit to the tracks, IIRC.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

It all boils down to what they choose to do with the BB profile. You can either give guard easy and cheap access to weaker versions of knights, or you can give them some form of buff. But I look for GW to do nothing to them, and instead alter or change other units, like LR or Sentinels.

**Dysartes**

Looking at the current points file, and comparing a Paladin to a Baneblade or Shadowsword (before any upgrades in any case), I don't think they currently qualify as "easy and cheap" (only saving 20-40 points base), though they do qualify as "weaker".

And that's before whatever happens with the new IK book... I wouldn't be that shocked if the base Paladin ended up cheaper than the base Shadowsword, for example.

**Jarms48**

Tygre wrote:
There was a Forgeworld Chimera variant with an autocannon, others with heavy bolters in the turret also.

Correct, these should also be included in the kit. Honestly, I’d also love to see a turret lascannon, plasma cannon, and multi-melta options. The chimera is a versatile platform built across the entire galaxy. Give me a ton of options.

**brainpsyk**

[quote=]
Codex Eldar Harlequins
Saedath Characterisation Light: Blaze of Light
Each time an attack is made against a unit with this characterisation, if the attack model is more than 12" away, an unmodified hit roll of 1-3 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the wepaon or the model making that attack may have.

**Ravajaxe**

I have stumbled into this rumor recollection :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJkKp1pbNsI
I don't know this youtuber or the level of reliability of his source, but it seems plausible.

**tneva82**

Well he's using fake knight leak pictures in his video so...

**brainpsyk**

Ya know what guard need, a heroic intervention. Not for characters or tanks, but regular infantry. But not so they pile into close combat, it's to intercept a charge.

Hear me out.

Bugs, Banshees and other units have a way of negating overwatch, and guard (due to it's lack of melee) desperately need overwatch.
The pointy ears have a way of moving 6" when you charge them, making the charge innately longer. Guard can't move out of the way.
Characters already have HI, we're just going to change it.
Guard Infantry are supposed to be screening the tanks, but lack durability, so they easy to punch a hole thru to charge the tank in the back.

Something like this.. I guess we'll call it "Close Ranks"

Close Ranks
when an AM VEHICLE is declared as a charge target, any AM INFANTRY unit within 6" of that vehicle can make a HI move up to 6" before the charging unit moves. The every model in the unit(s) performing the HI must end up closer to the charging unit, and each AM INFANTRY unit may only perform 1 HI per turn. Neither the charged vehicle nor the HI infantry squad may fire overwatch this turn.

I'm thinking there might be a similar Strat, but for tanks. Let the tank plug the gap.

Now it's not enough to clear a lane, any nearby infantry unit can close the gap. If the charge roll is long enough, then the charging unit could still potentially run around the infantry and get to the tank, but then there will be less models in HtH, or potentially have coherency problems. Also, the use of "HI" is intentional, as now the charging unit, if it gets into range of the HI Infantry Squad would still have a successful charge.

If the tank isn't touched, then the infantry can move away (or, if it's updated to when a unit is prevented from falling back), use "Fire On My Position", and then the charging unit gets plastered by the tank it didn't touch.

I think it's powerful, but also fluffy in a guard way.

**Jarms48**

If we’re simply fixing Guard now.

1) I’d change our Regiment Trait selection to:

- Custom Regiments may select 3 custom regiment traits.
- Named Regiments may select 1 custom trait in addition to their own.
- Commissars taken in Militarum Tempestus detachments gain the <Tempestus Regiment> keyword.

2) I’d change the Balance Dataslate Aircraft Matched Play rule to 2 Aircraft units not models. The only 2 factions with aircraft units is us and Tau, which Tau’s only one is the Remora Drone.

3) This is harder, cause there’s a ton of rules or point costs that need to be changed. Some could be very easily done by GW but just changing some numbers in the current FAQ or Balance Dataslate. Such as changing Tank Orders range from 6” to 18”, the same as a vox-caster.

2 and 3 is literally just a single word and number change on the balance dataslate. Would literally take like 30 seconds to do. Would all 3 of these make us OP? Hardly.

2 just means we can now field airborne Scion lists again. 3 just makes Tank Commanders giving their orders to other units a more viable option. While 1 gives us more tools to use. It’d also make other named regiments more viable. Something like Valhallan’s with Wilderness Survivors could be a good basis for a pure infantry build. Gunnery Experts would be useful for basically any named regiment. While having 3 custom traits could allow for better mixed regiments as taking 2 different custom ones is no longer an option.