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Hairesy wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

kirotheavenger wrote:Why do we bother with a common language if everyone is free to just make it up as they go along?

That's kinda how language works - all words are made up, and people choose which ones they want to use. Or are you suggesting that words don't get wholesale invented?

I personally don't trust your opinion on linguistics.

I mean, that *is* how language works. Language works via semiotic meanings, but those meanings are ultimately arbitrary.

But I digress.

 Sim-Life wrote:
A lot of people in this thread seem to have a side hobby in pedantry.

A lot of people here come from different countries and use a second or third langauge to communicate with other. Clarity is very important, it took me over 2 years I think to get the fact that when people say marines, they don't count GK as marines, but DW they do. And csm sometimes too, and sometimes they do not. And it can get hell of a confusing when you read it.

With the hobby thing one is sure though. What ever the people think the hobby is, GW claims that their hobby is their brand. To a point where it seems as if they were of the opinion that Warhammer is a separate thing from other table top games etc.

Karol, yes, this is a sensitive point. I suppose that the dispute reduces to how we identify ourselves, which for some is purely personal, so the individual can decide. For others, there is some linguistic rule which demands a certain classification according to linguistic rules, or at least conventional meanings.

I’m philosophy, there is Wittgenstein saying that there is no such thing as private language. I think that he was wrong about that.

 jeff white wrote:

I’m philosophy, there is Wittgenstein saying that there is no such thing as private language. I think that he was wrong about that.

That's definitely wrong. My wife and I switch back and forth between English and Spanish while mixing in inside jokes, meme references, etc. Someone listening to our average conversation would have no clue what we're talking about. When I say our connection is chimbo or she says her phone is at a certain percent of inflation, or I refer to a bath sponge as a loopa, what is that if not a private language that we have developed over the years?

Yes, exactly. My take is even more private, neurologically, input results in absolutely unique dynamics, unique to the individual, though behavior including speech acts may appear publically interpretable. So I agree with you, and even more so… in your enviable case, your brain body dynamics and your loved one’s have developed a lasting resonance in uniquely embodied dynamics. Indeed, you two have become of one mind, so to speak, so true, a private language, indeed.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
The hobby is playing games. If you told me your hobby was Star Wars, it would be just as unintuitive. I only say this because of the earlier argument about clarity for 40k being a hobby. I'm arguing that it's less clear. I still see it as a collection of hobbies without this argument.

If someone said their hobby was "Star Wars", wouldn't that make you wonder what they meant? Are we asking people these questions while stopped at traffic lights or something that we can't ask a follow-up?

From Oxford.
hob·by
/ˈhäbē/
noun

1.
an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure:
"her hobbies are reading and gardening"

Clearly hobbies can be anything that people do for pleasure in their leisure time. Thus 40K can be a hobby, and if that isn't a sufficient answer for people then, oh gee I dunno... ask them more about it?

Yes, if someone said their hobby was Star Wars, it would make me wonder what they meant. That's what I said. Please understand what I said before you respond, it's common courtesy. And please stop being rude when I'm just clarifying my point. I'm not saying people are wrong, or dumb, or anything bad. 40k isn't a hobby, because it's not an activity. The activity and hobby would be the activity you do. Like playing the miniature game. Or reading the books. Note that when someone says "I'm playing 40k," playing implies the game, meaning the game is the hobby in this scenario, not 40k.

At no point was I rude to you.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
The hobby is playing games. If you told me your hobby was Star Wars, it would be just as unintuitive. I only say this because of the earlier argument about clarity for 40k being a hobby. I'm arguing that it's less clear. I still see it as a collection of hobbies without this argument.

If someone said their hobby was "Star Wars", wouldn't that make you wonder what they meant? Are we asking people these questions while stopped at traffic lights or something that we can't ask a follow-up?

From Oxford.
hob·by
/ˈhäbē/
noun

1.
an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure:
"her hobbies are reading and gardening"

Clearly hobbies can be anything that people do for pleasure in their leisure time. Thus 40K can be a hobby, and if that isn't a sufficient answer for people then, oh gee I dunno... ask them more about it?

Yes, if someone said their hobby was Star Wars, it would make me wonder what they meant. That's what I said. Please understand what I said before you respond, it's common courtesy. And please stop being rude when I'm just clarifying my point. I'm not saying people are wrong, or dumb, or anything bad. 40k isn't a hobby, because it's not an activity. The activity and hobby would be the activity you do. Like playing the miniature game. Or reading the books. Note that when someone says "I'm playing 40k," playing implies the game, meaning the game is the hobby in this scenario, not 40k.

except star wars is, primarily, a movie. it'd be a bit weird, that said if you said your Hobby was "Star wars Legion" I'd understand it. or "star wars X-wing" etc

If someone said to me that their hobby was Star Wars, I would have no trouble understanding, and perhaps if interested asking how so, or what exactly re Star Wars was her or his hobby interest… maybe collecting memorabilia, writing fan fiction, painting models, playing the video games, or a mix of those, but surely I would have no trouble understanding, or at least coming to an understanding through discourse…

Moreover, I find it difficult to believe that should we be in a room together and I said that my hobby was 40k, that anyone here would say “ no it is not” or “ wrong, impossible, check the Oxford dictionary.”

Further, if one were to say such to me, I would ask why she or he felt it their prerogative to tell me what I do with my time and how I identify as a hobbyist.

I expect that either personal affiliations would be respected, or conversation would stop.

But, maybe this is what people want, conflict rather than understanding, over the Internet at least… wild.

 jeff white wrote:
Karol, yes, this is a sensitive point. I suppose that the dispute reduces to how we identify ourselves, which for some is purely personal, so the individual can decide. For others, there is some linguistic rule which demands a certain classification according to linguistic rules, or at least conventional meanings.

I’m philosophy, there is Wittgenstein saying that there is no such thing as private language. I think that he was wrong about that.

Well 100% uniformity is hard to achive unless you are twins or something similar. But more common language is always better then less. When things start to mean different things, or even the opposit things it gets hell of confusing, not even just to ousiders. It is like two soldiers from Bayern region who got shot in my town, because their officers, a Prussian, thought that they insulted the emperor, by calling him a pig. when in reality they just used an idiom which equaled "having a pig" with "being lucky".

But in the end, the only things that matter is what one can do in the walls of their home, and what the producer thinks the brand hobby should be. If one day, for what ever reasons GW decided that snap fit models and pre painted minis are the only things they are going to sell to the general market. The fans can go on telling how the hobby is about painting and converting, but it will just not mirror reality.

Just a note on "private language" - this topic is not a philosophical debate, but a field of hard science, crucial for simultaneous interpreters.

And in internet discussions a lot (I would even hazard a guess, that majority) of heated arguments stems from failing to negotiate private thesauruses in the first place, because people do not realise that they should. Especially between people from different countries/backgrounds/education paths.

Continue.