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I'm sitting here getting ready for a Grand tournament and I just can't get over how stupid so many of our gear/weapon options are.

On a Mega Nob unit, upgrading your gun to a Kombi Rokkit is 5pts, but upgrading it to a Kombi Skorcha (Heavy flamer) is 10pts. However, on your warboss who is forced to take a Kustom Shoota, its a free upgrade, but you don't get a points deduction of 10 or even 5pts for not upgrading.

On a unit of boyz, the nob can take a Powerklaw for 10pts, or a Big Choppa for 5pts. Nobz can take Big Choppas for 3pts and Kommandos can take a Powerklaw for 5pts.

Its just...annoyingly stupid.

Not to mention that most Ork weaponry is heavily overpriced for how little it actually does.

Rant over

they had orks point out their upgrades.

SemperMortis wrote:
I'm sitting here getting ready for a Grand tournament and I just can't get over how stupid so many of our gear/weapon options are.

On a Mega Nob unit, upgrading your gun to a Kombi Rokkit is 5pts, but upgrading it to a Kombi Skorcha (Heavy flamer) is 10pts. However, on your warboss who is forced to take a Kustom Shoota, its a free upgrade, but you don't get a points deduction of 10 or even 5pts for not upgrading.

On a unit of boyz, the nob can take a Powerklaw for 10pts, or a Big Choppa for 5pts. Nobz can take Big Choppas for 3pts and Kommandos can take a Powerklaw for 5pts.

Its just...annoyingly stupid.

Not to mention that most Ork weaponry is heavily overpriced for how little it actually does.

Rant over

Nobody at GW likes Orks and they hate losing to them.

SemperMortis wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm sitting here getting ready for a Grand tournament and I just can't get over how stupid so many of our gear/weapon options are.

On a Mega Nob unit, upgrading your gun to a Kombi Rokkit is 5pts, but upgrading it to a Kombi Skorcha (Heavy flamer) is 10pts. However, on your warboss who is forced to take a Kustom Shoota, its a free upgrade, but you don't get a points deduction of 10 or even 5pts for not upgrading.

On a unit of boyz, the nob can take a Powerklaw for 10pts, or a Big Choppa for 5pts. Nobz can take Big Choppas for 3pts and Kommandos can take a Powerklaw for 5pts.

Its just...annoyingly stupid.

You think that's stupid?
Read the Crusade rules & try and make an all Gretchin KW force.

To maximize your effectiveness you really need to run two detachments - 1 fast, 1 heavy.
That means you need at least 2 HQ.
Your only two Gretchin HQ (or even characters) options are Makari & the LE Christmas Red Gobbo on squig.....
(Yes, there's a 3rd - the Christmas Red Gobbo on foot. He's an elite, but he's still a named character AND both Gobbos have a rule limiting an army to only 1 Red Gobbo)
This is a problem because the in their infinite wisdom the designers:
A) tell you straight up that you cannot make a named orks character a Waaghboss in a Crusade force.
B) haven't provided any non-named Gretchen characters.
Then? For good measure they rub your nose in the fact in a designers note at the end of the page. Telling you that you should be using Crusade to tell the stories of characters of your own making!
Yeah, thanks GW dumb ass. I'm TRYING to tell the story of a band of rebel grots. Thanks for hindering that & forcing me to take an actual ork, thus breaking my theme....

But hey, if I were to make my rebel grots as a matched play force?
No problem! The Red Gobbo can lead my severely limited forces into battle all day every day.

I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

ccs wrote:

Read the Crusade rules & try and make an all Gretchin KW force.

There's an extra layer to this issue that you didn't mention:

ccs wrote:

To maximize your effectiveness you really need to run two detachments - 1 fast, 1 heavy.
That means you need at least 2 HQ.
Your only two Gretchin HQ (or even characters) options are Makari & the LE Christmas Red Gobbo on squig.....
(Yes, there's a 3rd - the Christmas Red Gobbo on foot. He's an elite, but he's still a named character AND both Gobbos have a rule limiting an army to only 1 Red Gobbo)

This seems like an easy fix, nowadays. While he's not a grot, Zodgrod Wortsnagga was designed specifically to make gretchin armies more viable. You could always run him instead of one of the other HQs...

ccs wrote:

This is a problem because the in their infinite wisdom the designers:
A) tell you straight up that you cannot make a named orks character a Waaghboss in a Crusade force.

Whoops, nevermind!



Yeah, those rules are atrocious.

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

Or people who don't play Space Marines, who always believe Space Marines are top tier.

 Stux wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

Or people who don't play Space Marines, who always believe Space Marines are top tier.

How about that no one ever has called or would call their codex good. Even if these codexes are powerful or whatever, there still are countless flaws and a whole bunch of things that don't make any sense and units and options that are just laughable.

 Stux wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

Or people who don't play Space Marines, who always believe Space Marines are top tier.

Almost everyone plays SM of some kind .

 Stux wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

Or people who don't play Space Marines, who always believe Space Marines are top tier.

Or people who never buy new/refreshed units for their faction then whine GW releases most units for faction that actually sells.

Oh wait, they are the same picture

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

Maybe not, because it's unlikely you'll see GW put an honest effort into an ork codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

Or people who never buy new/refreshed units for their faction then whine GW releases most units for faction that actually sells.

Oh wait, they are the same picture

The difference is the new space marine stuff isn't gated in box sets like Blood of the Phoenix. But go ahead, keep telling xenos players to eat gak and like it.

How do you "refresh" your units, when GW decided to not make any new units for your factions, the only new model is a special character sold only in an OOP limited edition box set and the good way to play your faction is taking the same units which were good an edition ago? I mean you could buy a 5th NDK, comparing to what you used in 8th ed, but then GW comes and says that now you can only run four. So not upgrading is actually the way to go as it saves you money and time.

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

Both codices are written terribly. GW has sucked at writing rules for over two decades and it's rare you'll have a codex with good internal balance, external balance, and being dynamic.

SemperMortis wrote:
I'm sitting here getting ready for a Grand tournament and I just can't get over how stupid so many of our gear/weapon options are.

On a Mega Nob unit, upgrading your gun to a Kombi Rokkit is 5pts, but upgrading it to a Kombi Skorcha (Heavy flamer) is 10pts. However, on your warboss who is forced to take a Kustom Shoota, its a free upgrade, but you don't get a points deduction of 10 or even 5pts for not upgrading.

On a unit of boyz, the nob can take a Powerklaw for 10pts, or a Big Choppa for 5pts. Nobz can take Big Choppas for 3pts and Kommandos can take a Powerklaw for 5pts.

Its just...annoyingly stupid.

Not to mention that most Ork weaponry is heavily overpriced for how little it actually does.

Rant over

Probably just a reverse funnel system in play. They secretly want players to give up on models they have already sold for almost 20years or who knows how long and bad points costs help players decide to buy new models, like vehicles. No idea. I think it's just a symptom of a really bad edition of 40K. It's bland and soulless. and funny enough if you were playing power levels you'd probably not even notice the weird points stuff or maybe you'd just care less about it. By you I mean anybody, not the op.

Karol wrote:
How do you "refresh" your units, when GW decided to not make any new units for your factions, the only new model is a special character sold only in an OOP limited edition box set and the good way to play your faction is taking the same units which were good an edition ago? I mean you could buy a 5th NDK, comparing to what you used in 8th ed, but then GW comes and says that now you can only run four. So not upgrading is actually the way to go as it saves you money and time.

You get the 5th NDK now because A) it won't be cheaper in the future (assumes your buying new), B) future editions might not have the current restrictions, C) modeling/paint project - practice your painting, modeling, & magnetizing skills on it.

The LE character? Pick it up on the secondary market.

Crowe isn't Ltd Ed, the model just hasn't been released because Covid backlog hasn't been sorted.

 Gert wrote:
Crowe isn't Ltd Ed, the model just hasn't been released because Covid backlog hasn't been sorted.

Well until that happens he's effectively an LE.

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

They almost never are. One skew build of a certain chapter may be top tier briefly until GW nerfs it into nonexistence. Ever since IG leafblower days, Space Marines have usually been A tier with certain builds at best. I remember years of Eldar and Tau dominating, then it shifted to Ad Mech/Drukhari, now it's Tau/Custodes. Grey Knights and Tyranids have also had some S tier armies. Even in 7th where you had an invisible squad of centurions teleporting around the table, they were quickly eclipsed by armies full of eldar jetbikes and WKs.

Toofast wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I don't think I'll ever live to see a day where Ork players don't constantly complain about their codex.

You mean Space Marines, who never believe they are top tiers .

They almost never are. One skew build of a certain chapter may be top tier briefly until GW nerfs it into nonexistence. Ever since IG leafblower days, Space Marines have usually been A tier with certain builds at best. I remember years of Eldar and Tau dominating, then it shifted to Ad Mech/Drukhari, now it's Tau/Custodes. Grey Knights and Tyranids have also had some S tier armies. Even in 7th where you had an invisible squad of centurions teleporting around the table, they were quickly eclipsed by armies full of eldar jetbikes and WKs.

*Glances over to the Winter of Marine 2.0 codex, looks back* Bull