Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

GW previewed the new Tyranid creature today, the Parasite of Mortrex. It has an ability that allows it to infect apposing units. A successful wound roll does 1 mortal wound plus the normal damage. The wound infects the unit. At the start of the next command phase the unit takes D3 moral wounds. If the infected units take 2+ wounds, a ripper swarm is spawned within 3” for no reinforcement cost.

Now I am not here to shout how this will break the game or that the parasite is going to super powerful. It only has 6 wounds, T5 and a 4+ save so really you’ll get 1 or 2 chances to really use one. The idea also is very thematic for Tyranids since it’s straight out of Alien. The problem is that we’ve gotten another rule with free units attached to it. Before this there was a clear line that units could replenish to their starting strength, recycle from a board edge at starting strength, or you could pay for weird deploying reserves. This was in no doubt a response to how stupidly powerful summoning was in 7th. I am a bit worried now that GW has gone back and allowed free units again. It is not overpowered here but with all three chaos codexes looming, it is worrisome that they’ve suddenly allowed you to spawn new models on the table. Bringing extra points is a fast way to skew balance. I don’t think anyone wants that back. Again not a huge issue with this particular model but I think if this proliferates it will be bad.

Edited this once for misreading the egg attack but point still stands

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Od78UBhfgOzx09oR.jpg

We're 14 Codexes in and I think this might be the first where a free "unit" shows up, and it's Rippers.
Tone down the doomsday scrying.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Before this there was a clear line that units could replenish to their starting strength, recycle from a board edge at starting strength, or you could pay for weird deploying reserves.

Resurrecting 29 Boyz while simultaneously redeploying them was infinitely more bs than this Parasite of Mortrex rule, so I can't personally get worked up about it unless GW actually starts to push the envelope again.

I'm not too worried about whether new models brought onto the board are comprising their own unit or being added to depleted ones; I care about how many free points a player is getting in total.

Jones? Is something wrong? Jones? …. Jones! Gawd nooooo…. Run!

i just assume the Parasite will have the cost of 3-4 rippers included in its cost. even if it doesnt. rippers are being moved to fast attack so they wont even have obsec anymore

The loss of ObSec for the infected unit matters a lot more than the chance at a single ripper base. Depending on secondaries, that could even end up as nearly free VPs for your opponent.

Might be worth noting, the current Tyranid book already has exceptions for reinforcement points on Spore Mines created by weapons. The Parasite's Ovipositor kinda follows the same idea of a model being spawned as a side effect of a weapon.

The reinforcement points system as a whole seems to be on its way out. Every book released so far has stripped out the mechanics that previous books had that used reinforcement points. Will be curious to see if Tervigons keep the ability to spawn new units of Termagants.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Might be worth noting, the current Tyranid book already has exceptions for reinforcement points on Spore Mines created by weapons. The Parasite's Ovipositor kinda follows the same idea of a model being spawned as a side effect of a weapon.

The reinforcement points system as a whole seems to be on its way out. Every book released so far has stripped out the mechanics that previous books had that used reinforcement points. Will be curious to see if Tervigons keep the ability to spawn new units of Termagants.

please make demon summoning useable
please make demon summoning useable
please make demon summoning useable
please make demon summoning useable
please make demon summoning useable
please make demon summoning useable

 jeff white wrote:
Jones? Is something wrong? Jones? …. Jones! Gawd nooooo…. Run!

THIS!

My only small issue is any extra bookkeeping but I would still like this and the return of Daemon summoning from chaos space marines 2nd edition, free Daemons.

 Gert wrote:
We're 14 Codexes in and I think this might be the first where a free "unit" shows up, and it's Rippers.
Tone down the doomsday scrying.

Congrats on completely missing the point of what I wrote. I specifically mentioned that this rule seems fine and not overpowered. I have no problem with the egg attack. It does represent a shift in rules for most of 9th and all of 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
i just assume the Parasite will have the cost of 3-4 rippers included in its cost. even if it doesnt. rippers are being moved to fast attack so they wont even have obsec anymore

Really I’m sure this model will be fine. It’s not an issue with these rules. It’s an issue of what might come next. It was a real quick decent from free demons to free transports and upgrades. Though I will state again I don’t think it’s the end of the game. I’m just mildly concerned this concept is back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Might be worth noting, the current Tyranid book already has exceptions for reinforcement points on Spore Mines created by weapons. The Parasite's Ovipositor kinda follows the same idea of a model being spawned as a side effect of a weapon.

The reinforcement points system as a whole seems to be on its way out. Every book released so far has stripped out the mechanics that previous books had that used reinforcement points. Will be curious to see if Tervigons keep the ability to spawn new units of Termagants.

I’ll admit I forgot about spore mines. I can’t remember the last time I saw that fielded as an actual unit. I have to go back to using the battle for macragge starter set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:


My only small issue is any extra bookkeeping but I would still like this and the return of Daemon summoning from chaos space marines 2nd edition, free Daemons.

I just don’t want to go back to the pain like in 7th where I watched ghost helm farseers just yeet our demons against the endless horde of razorbacks and rhinos. Demon summoning is my biggest worry for going back to free units.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:


My only small issue is any extra bookkeeping but I would still like this and the return of Daemon summoning from chaos space marines 2nd edition, free Daemons.

I just don’t want to go back to the pain like in 7th where I watched ghost helm farseers just yeet our demons against the endless horde of razorbacks and rhinos. Demon summoning is my biggest worry for going back to free units.

If I understood the mechanic right, the number of rippers was? what like 1 or 2 bases? The Daemon summoning I was referring to was not even what we'd consider a full unit now days. Just again 1 or 2 models base on conditions and plopped onto the table in combat or replacing a model that had a bad teleport, like a warpspider, on a roll. so as I remember it it's fairly similar but it's been like 20+ years ago. But I still like the idea of just suddenly putting a disposable model into combat to muck up the opponents plans. That said I don't want this to override daemons as a faction and all that.

It isn't free Razorbacks. Let's relax.

 Gert wrote:
We're 14 Codexes in and I think this might be the first where a free "unit" shows up, and it's Rippers.
Tone down the doomsday scrying.

The problem seems to be the mechanic , not the specific case of a free swarm base. Wouldn't want to see demons get some sort of rules that lets them recycle units over and over again.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:

I have no problem with the egg attack. It does represent a shift in rules for most of 9th and all of 8th.

Except it doesn't as Tervigons & Biovores already do this....

But hey, make up whatever fits your narrative.

ccs wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:

I have no problem with the egg attack. It does represent a shift in rules for most of 9th and all of 8th.

Except it doesn't as Tervigons & Biovores already do this....

But hey, make up whatever fits your narrative.

I was under the impression that that the tervigon had to pay reinforcement points for spawning a new unit instead of just making 10 free gaunts each turn. “Resurrecting” parts of a unit already on the board is a bit of a different mechanic than making a new one. But hey don’t let that get in the way of trying to be snarky.

I admit I forgot about spore mines but the living bomb rule makes those units essentially just mortal wounds.

This is a long way off from "kill the unit of genestealers. On the next turn the entire unit comes back again."

Daemon summoning probably won't come back since it hasn't been mentioned in any of the 9th Chaos Codizes.

More realistically we might see a way of bringing a Chaos Spawn through psychic powers, I think that one was in any CSM Codex since 3rd?

The only issue around free units is they have to actually not be free. They need to be baked into the cost of the unit that can allow them to come on to the board.

This can work with high limited applications, like Spore Mines for Biovores or the Rippers for the Parasite. It can even work for a Tervigon as long as the new unit spawning is highly limited, say once per game.

This does not work when every psycher in your army can spend every Psychic Phase adding random daemon units to your army.

As long as they keep to the limited options where you pay to play, we are fine.

 warhead01 wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:


My only small issue is any extra bookkeeping but I would still like this and the return of Daemon summoning from chaos space marines 2nd edition, free Daemons.

I just don’t want to go back to the pain like in 7th where I watched ghost helm farseers just yeet our demons against the endless horde of razorbacks and rhinos. Demon summoning is my biggest worry for going back to free units.

If I understood the mechanic right, the number of rippers was? what like 1 or 2 bases? The Daemon summoning I was referring to was not even what we'd consider a full unit now days. Just again 1 or 2 models base on conditions and plopped onto the table in combat or replacing a model that had a bad teleport, like a warpspider, on a roll. so as I remember it it's fairly similar but it's been like 20+ years ago. But I still like the idea of just suddenly putting a disposable model into combat to muck up the opponents plans. That said I don't want this to override daemons as a faction and all that.

Howabout bloodthirster you didn't pay popping up?

Unit of plaguebearers?

Slaanesh cavalry?

Though in AOS it doesn't break game. Summoning armies aren't dominating tournaments.

It summons a single Ripper base. That is, IIRC, 3 wounds at toughness 3 with a save of 5+? I can't say I'm too worried. I'd say I'm more worried about the loss of objective secured.

 blood reaper wrote:
It summons a single Ripper base. That is, IIRC, 3 wounds at toughness 3 with a save of 5+? I can't say I'm too worried. I'd say I'm more worried about the loss of objective secured.

OP's point wasn't about this being OP though...

I understand the concern of a codex violating a core rule.

On the other hand, Reinforcement Points is an absolutely garbage rule that only served to kill reinforcements entirely.

Hence, I can't say I'm especially fearful to see signs that it might finally be on its way out.

GSC get d6 or d3 models back each command phase with Icons.

Tervigons replenished Gaunt units for free

But sure, getting a single ripper base in very specific circumstances is a problem...

Put away the pitchforks, there is nothing here.

 catbarf wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Before this there was a clear line that units could replenish to their starting strength, recycle from a board edge at starting strength, or you could pay for weird deploying reserves.

Resurrecting 29 Boyz while simultaneously redeploying them was infinitely more bs than this Parasite of Mortrex rule, so I can't personally get worked up about it unless GW actually starts to push the envelope again.

I'm not too worried about whether new models brought onto the board are comprising their own unit or being added to depleted ones; I care about how many free points a player is getting in total.

SM can currently resurrect expensive models for free, also other armies can. Not even paying CPs, just for free as built-in ability of their doc. That's annoying, much more than paying 3CPs for resurrecting and redeploying ork boyz, which a skilled player would have prevented anyway by wiping the mob in the first place instead of leaving a few dudes standing.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
GW previewed the new Tyranid creature today, the Parasite of Mortrex. It has an ability that allows it to infect apposing units. A successful wound roll does 1 mortal wound plus the normal damage. The wound infects the unit. At the start of the next command phase the unit takes D3 moral wounds. If the infected units take 2+ wounds, a ripper swarm is spawned within 3” for no reinforcement cost.

Now I am not here to shout how this will break the game or that the parasite is going to super powerful. It only has 6 wounds, T5 and a 4+ save so really you’ll get 1 or 2 chances to really use one. The idea also is very thematic for Tyranids since it’s straight out of Alien. The problem is that we’ve gotten another rule with free units attached to it. Before this there was a clear line that units could replenish to their starting strength, recycle from a board edge at starting strength, or you could pay for weird deploying reserves. This was in no doubt a response to how stupidly powerful summoning was in 7th. I am a bit worried now that GW has gone back and allowed free units again. It is not overpowered here but with all three chaos codexes looming, it is worrisome that they’ve suddenly allowed you to spawn new models on the table. Bringing extra points is a fast way to skew balance. I don’t think anyone wants that back. Again not a huge issue with this particular model but I think if this proliferates it will be bad.

Edited this once for misreading the egg attack but point still stands

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Od78UBhfgOzx09oR.jpg

Seriously? Its a RIPPER if it lives in combat for 2+ turns.... dude stop crying. If anything Nids Sporefield CP should give you free Spores FFS. The fact that you made a post mean it is an issue to you.

But all the healing every army does is fine? And you get mad at 1 ripper.... lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
It summons a single Ripper base. That is, IIRC, 3 wounds at toughness 3 with a save of 5+? I can't say I'm too worried. I'd say I'm more worried about the loss of objective secured.

OP's point wasn't about this being OP though...

Right, its about getting a "free ripper" when almost every army can already get free units back via healing, resurrect, bring a full dead unit back even.

This isn't new, this isn't "breaking rules" this is isn't anything to even talk about.....

 Ordana wrote:
GSC get d6 or d3 models back each command phase with Icons.

Tervigons replenished Gaunt units for free

But sure, getting a single ripper base in very specific circumstances is a problem...

Put away the pitchforks, there is nothing here.

I think the problem is that the type of mechanic is spreading to other armies. While it should be limited to space marines. Being -1D when it was just DG was strong, but not gaming breaking. But when the rule got added to monster/vehicle class models it became a real problem. a +5inv on a terminator is not the same as an inv save on a raider etc.

Reinforcements were clearly added specifically to put a hard stop to 7th summoning shenanigans.
Hence pretty much everything short of that is done without paying reinforcement points.

I don't think spawning 1 Ripper from a unit who's specific purpose is to summon a Ripper is a problem, the points for that ability will be included in the datasheet.
There's no reason to suspect this is a design shift of any margin.

Karol wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
GSC get d6 or d3 models back each command phase with Icons.

Tervigons replenished Gaunt units for free

But sure, getting a single ripper base in very specific circumstances is a problem...

Put away the pitchforks, there is nothing here.

I think the problem is that the type of mechanic is spreading to other armies. While it should be limited to space marines. Being -1D when it was just DG was strong, but not gaming breaking. But when the rule got added to monster/vehicle class models it became a real problem. a +5inv on a terminator is not the same as an inv save on a raider etc.

Raiders always had an Invul this is not new and always been their thing and not a good comparison at all, and vehicles are badly designed in 8th/9th with players asking for more defense sense the start (aka -1D) which is helping them stay on the table now, we have dreads finally being played, maybe if the 20 vehicles marines have that are never played had some type of survivability they would see the tables.

And finally the "Pay points for Reinforcements" is a terrible design and has been from the start, if they just limited it at the start of 8th, let daemons have their free summons, tervigons too, some stratagems like Sporefield would actually work and be used. It might have made some armies more playable and fun. But GW just didn't want to balance the rules and went the lazy route.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Congrats on completely missing the point of what I wrote. I specifically mentioned that this rule seems fine and not overpowered. I have no problem with the egg attack. It does represent a shift in rules for most of 9th and all of 8th.

What shift? The shift where Space Marines can take free transports in a specific army build? Oh, wait no that's gone. The shift where any army could spawn free Daemon units and Daemons themselves could double their army size every single turn? Oh, wait that's gone too. Summoning got nuked in 8th and AFAIK the two Chaos armies that have already been released don't have the rule from 8th that allowed Chaos Characters to summon Daemons.
One Nid Character potentially being able to spawn one base of Rippers is not the sign of the end times you seem to think it is.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
It isn't free Razorbacks. Let's relax.

Honestly given the amount of broken gak in recent xeno armies I feel we're quickly going back to the point where SM will be able to compete only with 500 points of free vehicles like in 7th (which, again, given the amount of OP gak xenos have won't even last a turn but at least some infantry units will live a bit longer to hopefully do something)...

 blood reaper wrote:
I'd say I'm more worried about the loss of objective secured.

Even tiny unit of 5 models will keep the objective against a Parasite, OS or not, even if it manages to kill one or two models, sooo...

 Blackie wrote:
SM can currently resurrect expensive models for free, also other armies can. Not even paying CPs, just for free as built-in ability of their doc.

You think apothecaries are free and/or hard to remove? Also chief apothecary + trait, the only model that can do it for free, is really expensive, sooo...