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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

Introducing the Ironkin, Mechanical Members of the Leagues

Some subtle hints in the article that they may be Men of Iron, i guess those rumours were true.

That's a pretty cool model too, similar vain to the Imperial Robots, but much more sophisticated looking.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

Obligatory robots.
They're fine, equal and not ambitious. Much like cloning and psykers, all negative consequences are avoided and nullified with no downside. Yay.


Not keen on the apron. Actually like the look aside from that, its far less bulky than the sample trooper we've seen.

I think I like these?

Tool belt is a bit visually distracting to me right now.

awww, he thinks he's people!

also there's a rumour engine reveal.

I will wait to see what if any negative consequences or weaknesses may arise.

I would not be surprised if somewhere out there one of these Ironkin decides it can be most helpful if it were in charge, for the good of the Kin of course, and actually mean it. The article says it is rare but not unknown for them to be ambitious or be a leader.

Their very existence sets up conflict with the Adeptus Mechanicus who would either love to destroy these Ironkin and/or love to loot/study them. If the Ironkin are truly intelligent, then I could imagine them viewing the Kastelans of the Adeptus Mechanicus with something like horror, like viewing lobotomized and enslaved versions of yourself.

What I might want to know however is how they can possibly appear on the battlefield and not have their existence be known to all the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Squats once again do something better than literally everyone else in the setting

Ad Mech don’t need to know they’re fully independent. Just of more flexible, but still non-sentient programming. Easy peasy.

Now we know where the squat foot with the metal ankle rumour engine pic comes from.

Going full Men of Iron is another reason why the Imperium would and should wipe them out to a man.

Maybe this is the final fate of the Men of Iron, hiding out among the Kin, in forms strong enough to be useful but not so strong as to arouse fear or suspicion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ad Mech don’t need to know they’re fully independent. Just of more flexible, but still non-sentient programming. Easy peasy.

Yep - I wonder if the "less complex COG robots" are the public face, and these the dirty secret.

Iracundus wrote:


What I might want to know however is how they can possibly appear on the battlefield and not have their existence be known to all the Adeptus Mechanicus.

The setting already has an actual Man of Iron who's been wandering around wearing the equivalent of a fake moustache and just claiming to be an Imperial Robot and the Mechanicus hasn't figured it out yet.

So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is the final fate of the Men of Iron, hiding out among the Kin, in forms strong enough to be useful but not so strong as to arouse fear or suspicion.

Sounds like the Kin avoided Men of Iron trouble by…..not treating them as slaves but as equals in all regards.

Even if there was some trouble, it wouldn’t have been all of them.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

The artwork in the article shows an anti-grav/hovering mining version.

The 17.05 Rumor Engine could be similar torso-mounted manipulators..

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

It’s almost as if you and Voss are just cherry picking. On account you’re clearly cherry picking.

The Leagues depend upon their Votann. The Votann are breaking down, and they don’t know how to fix them.

And please, don’t pretend what’s been teased is therefore the totality. I know you think it’s great for a quick, aimless whine, but it’s really not.

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Nah, the cloneskins article said they can clone Psykers that were engineered to be not noticeable in the warp and suffer 0 mutations.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/10/the-lore-of-the-leagues-who-are-the-kin-and-where-do-they-come-from/

Looks nice enough, I guess. I wish GW hadn't chosen that dreaful color scheme. I dislike it a lot, and it distracts me from looking at the underlying model.

Iracundus wrote:
What I might want to know however is how they can possibly appear on the battlefield and not have their existence be known to all the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Aiyernkyn have been around for thousands of years and no one in the Adeptus Mechanicus ever got any funny ideas.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ad Mech don’t need to know they’re fully independent. Just of more flexible, but still non-sentient programming. Easy peasy.

"Ooooooo! It follows our sacred tenets to the letter but is a much more efficient reflection of the Omnissiah's will than any of our stuff? I'd love to get my hands on that!"

Apparently no tech priest ever said that. Very plausible.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe this is the final fate of the Men of Iron, hiding out among the Kin, in forms strong enough to be useful but not so strong as to arouse fear or suspicion.

Sounds like the Kin avoided Men of Iron trouble by…..not treating them as slaves but as equals in all regards.

Even if there was some trouble, it wouldn’t have been all of them.

I was just wondering whether the Men of Iron "devolved" into the Ironkin, or whether they are just playing dumb and they still have super intelligent versions of themselves. Not necessarily in a sinister "We'll take over the galaxy" kind of hiding but more like they realize that the best way to survive is to avoid a higher profile. Maybe the Men of Iron concluded that having people know you are powerful and intelligent just paints a target on yourself, or fosters dependence.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

It’s almost as if you and Voss are just cherry picking. On account you’re clearly cherry picking.

And please, don’t pretend what’s been teased is therefore the totality. I know you think it’s great for a quick, aimless whine, but it’s really not.

It's almost as if that's exactly what their articles said.

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Not really. Imperial ships are capable of calculated jumps too. Navigators are only needed for long extended journeys.

Maybe this is how the Kin solved the problem of long distance warp travel, using mechanical intellects to do enough fast number crunching to generate multiple probable paths, outperforming the old system of non-sapient computers calculating plotted jumps. The rest of humanity went down gene engineering/mutation until there was a stable mutation that could see the warp intuitively and steer through it without having to perform an inhuman number of fast calculations.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Nah, the cloneskins article said they can clone Psykers that were engineered to be not noticeable in the warp and suffer 0 mutations.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/10/the-lore-of-the-leagues-who-are-the-kin-and-where-do-they-come-from/

They were engineered to not produce Psykers. Apart from the ones that operate the barrier tech.

Its not saying they have solved the problem of being a psyker, it's saying they have the dwarf trope of no magic.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

Seriously, this better be hype crap with a catch, but they are going to have a hell of a time walking ALL this back in the face of how excited they're making people.
Personally its turning me off, because it feels like Squats won 40k. Every single fundamental problem in the setting is simply solved, with no downside.
These things are even capable of warp-navigation, for feth's sake!

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:


What I might want to know however is how they can possibly appear on the battlefield and not have their existence be known to all the Adeptus Mechanicus.

The setting already has an actual Man of Iron who's been wandering around wearing the equivalent of a fake moustache and just claiming to be an Imperial Robot and the Mechanicus hasn't figured it out yet.

A single one, out on the fringes, mixed with all sorts of exiles, heretics and aliens. In a galaxy of uncountable trillions, that's an anomaly that doesn't matter. Very different from 'we have completely cooperative AI completely mingled in our society, acting openly and everything is fine.'
In this particular case the lore they're building works against it, since they call out how durable the Cerebral Units are, which means there _will_ be remnants on battlefields to scavenge and analyze.

Iracundus wrote:
I was just wondering whether the Men of Iron "devolved" into the Ironkin

Possibly, or are crippled/restricted version of them - the Emperor did that with the Excindio Battle-Automata.

Like the idea and overall look, but don't like the tool apron in this specific model.

This guy strikes me as a techmarine or engineseer equivalent type.

Vorian wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Nah, the cloneskins article said they can clone Psykers that were engineered to be not noticeable in the warp and suffer 0 mutations.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/10/the-lore-of-the-leagues-who-are-the-kin-and-where-do-they-come-from/

They were engineered to not produce Psykers. Apart from the ones that operate the barrier tech.

Its not saying they have solved the problem of being a psyker, it's saying they have the dwarf trope of no magic.

Such was the craft of the First Ancestors that even Kin souls are engineered – they shine more dimly against the tides of the warp than their distant human cousins, with no evidence of uncontrolled psychic mutation. Indeed, only those with the appropriate psychically active cloneskein can activate the so-called barrier-tech the Kin employ to access the empyrean.

Which implies there are specific Cloneskins engineered to be Psykers, with psychic abilities that suffer 0 mutations as a result of that.

Also, since Navigators are basically lifted from Dune and in Dune they are ultimately replaced by machines that calculated their flight path, I'd be fine with machines calculating it for the squats.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Nah, the cloneskins article said they can clone Psykers that were engineered to be not noticeable in the warp and suffer 0 mutations.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/10/the-lore-of-the-leagues-who-are-the-kin-and-where-do-they-come-from/

They were engineered to not produce Psykers. Apart from the ones that operate the barrier tech.

Its not saying they have solved the problem of being a psyker, it's saying they have the dwarf trope of no magic.

Such was the craft of the First Ancestors that even Kin souls are engineered – they shine more dimly against the tides of the warp than their distant human cousins, with no evidence of uncontrolled psychic mutation. Indeed, only those with the appropriate psychically active cloneskein can activate the so-called barrier-tech the Kin employ to access the empyrean.

Which implies there are specific Cloneskins engineered to be Psykers, with psychic abilities that suffer 0 mutations as a result of that.

The leaked Skeinwrought discipline shows that they are indeed Psykers.

I suspect the critical weakness will be the Votann. Like the dwarves in the Chronopia universe, whose animal gods went mad, I think the Votann slowing down/dying/going mad will be the big ball and chain dragging the Kin down.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So uh
Cloning with a varied genepool and enhanced attributes
Psykers that you can mass produce with no downsides, mutations and without attracting Chaos
AI robots that are completely equal, capable of emotions and entirely dedicated to being helpful

Where's the catch? Or is there none and they just solved all problems

As far as I picked up they're not actual pyskers they just full on maths through the emotional sea which seems at best well a bit bullshitty.

Nah, the cloneskins article said they can clone Psykers that were engineered to be not noticeable in the warp and suffer 0 mutations.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/10/the-lore-of-the-leagues-who-are-the-kin-and-where-do-they-come-from/

They were engineered to not produce Psykers. Apart from the ones that operate the barrier tech.

Its not saying they have solved the problem of being a psyker, it's saying they have the dwarf trope of no magic.

Such was the craft of the First Ancestors that even Kin souls are engineered – they shine more dimly against the tides of the warp than their distant human cousins, with no evidence of uncontrolled psychic mutation. Indeed, only those with the appropriate psychically active cloneskein can activate the so-called barrier-tech the Kin employ to access the empyrean.

Which implies there are specific Cloneskins engineered to be Psykers, with psychic abilities that suffer 0 mutations as a result of that.

No, that's something you're reading into it. It could well be their version of Navigators don't suffer from anything, but it doesn't say that.

It just says they have stopped psykers occurring randomly and it's only the Navigator types that have any ability in their society.