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I’m reading the new update for the armour of contempt that states
Each time an attack is allocated to an Adeptus Astartes, Sanctic Astartes, Heretic Astartes or Adepta Sororitas model, worsen the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
But Im having trouble fully understanding this is it stating “worsen” as in -1 AP becomes 0? Or -1 AP worsens to -2 AP? Without a clear example “worsen” can mean 2 very different things please someone help clarify this!
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Which means this rule is useless to those of us who only play against Infantry Guard lists.
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Which means this rule is useless to those of us who only play against Infantry Guard lists.
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Which means this rule is useless to those of us who only play against Infantry Guard lists.
Thanks again GW.
It'll work against all those free plasma guns and lascannons that the Guard infantry will be bringing now.
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Which means this rule is useless to those of us who only play against Infantry Guard lists.
I have a question on Chaos Space Marines side... would Cultists, Spawn, or Vechiles benefit from it? They technically have the "Heretic Astartes" Keyword unless I'm mistaken and that was FAQ'd out. I didn't see where they limited to infantry...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/14 23:19:23
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Which means this rule is useless to those of us who only play against Infantry Guard lists.
Thanks again GW.
1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
Are those S3 shots?
The ones that need 8-9 shots to do one wound to a MEQ outside of cover, with this buff?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
DirusdaPlagueFather wrote: I have a question on Chaos Space Marines side... would Cultists, Spawn, or Vechiles benefit from it? They technically have the "Heretic Astartes" Keyword unless I'm mistaken and that was FAQ'd out. I didn't see where they limited to infantry...
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
I play Freebooterz. So a large chunk of my army will hit on 4s. What I posted is less than 30% of the army.
And if an army can throw 160 crappy shots at BS4 another army that can throw 3x of those shots but on 5s and higher quality is not LOL. The 160 lasgun shots are LOL, nothing to be scared of in the first place, that's the point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 07:21:26
DirusdaPlagueFather wrote: I have a question on Chaos Space Marines side... would Cultists, Spawn, or Vechiles benefit from it? They technically have the "Heretic Astartes" Keyword unless I'm mistaken and that was FAQ'd out. I didn't see where they limited to infantry...
Yes, everything which has HERETIC ASTARTES.
Interesting. T-shirts of Contempt!
I think this may be better as a Keyword on certain units & add it like Bolter Drill.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 09:24:00
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
I play Freebooterz. So a large chunk of my army will hit on 4s. What I posted is less than 30% of the army.
And if an army can throw 160 crappy shots at BS4 another army that can throw 3x of those shots but on 5s and higher quality is not LOL. The 160 lasgun shots are LOL, nothing to be scared of in the first place, that's the point.
Atypical cases aside...
The vast majority of Orks shoot at a 5+.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
I play Freebooterz. So a large chunk of my army will hit on 4s. What I posted is less than 30% of the army.
And if an army can throw 160 crappy shots at BS4 another army that can throw 3x of those shots but on 5s and higher quality is not LOL. The 160 lasgun shots are LOL, nothing to be scared of in the first place, that's the point.
Atypical cases aside...
The vast majority of Orks shoot at a 5+.
Not the vast majority of shooty oriented lists, aka competitive ones. Competitive orks are currently CC oriented or shooting oriented. Shooting oriented builds are basically two: freebooterz or army of renown.
Still, guardsmen shooting is a joke. Regardless of the number of shots they start with.
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
I play Freebooterz. So a large chunk of my army will hit on 4s. What I posted is less than 30% of the army.
And if an army can throw 160 crappy shots at BS4 another army that can throw 3x of those shots but on 5s and higher quality is not LOL. The 160 lasgun shots are LOL, nothing to be scared of in the first place, that's the point.
Atypical cases aside...
The vast majority of Orks shoot at a 5+.
The vast majority of competitive orks shoot at 4+ because freebooterz, pre nerf, were head and shoulders above any other clan.
As a Black Templars player, Armor of Contempt plus the vow on 5+ against AP-alot lists can help. I'm thinking about the new codexes. I also still have to try DA Deathwing spam with this, lol.
"Ite nunc fortes ubi celsa magni ducit exempli via."
---
Black Templars 2000 pts
Dark Angels 1000 pts
Adeptus Mechanicus 1000 pts
Necrons 1000 pts
DirusdaPlagueFather wrote: I have a question on Chaos Space Marines side... would Cultists, Spawn, or Vechiles benefit from it? They technically have the "Heretic Astartes" Keyword unless I'm mistaken and that was FAQ'd out. I didn't see where they limited to infantry...
Yes, everything which has HERETIC ASTARTES.
Interesting. T-shirts of Contempt!
I think this may be better as a Keyword on certain units & add it like Bolter Drill.
In the 9th Edition Death Guard and Thousand Son Cultists lost the "HERETIC ASTARTES" keyword. So T-Shirts of Contempt may be a thing for now for the CSM Cultists but it'll pass soon, so make the most of it
Toofast wrote: 1. If you struggle to beat infantry guard with space marines, this game might not be for you
2. Infantry guard lists are probably the least popular thing in the game right now so I doubt that GW even though about that matchup when writing this rule. Maybe you need more friends
People see a broken rule, they take advantage.
You try playing against an opponent laying down 160+ shots a turn.
My dakkajet, 10 bikes and 2 scrapjets alone (570 points) fire over 200 shots, and at S5, 6 and 8. I'm not even playing tournament level lists.
5+ to hit is LOL So...
I play Freebooterz. So a large chunk of my army will hit on 4s. What I posted is less than 30% of the army.
And if an army can throw 160 crappy shots at BS4 another army that can throw 3x of those shots but on 5s and higher quality is not LOL. The 160 lasgun shots are LOL, nothing to be scared of in the first place, that's the point.
Atypical cases aside...
The vast majority of Orks shoot at a 5+.
Not the vast majority of shooty oriented lists, aka competitive ones. Competitive orks are currently CC oriented or shooting oriented. Shooting oriented builds are basically two: freebooterz or army of renown.
Still, guardsmen shooting is a joke. Regardless of the number of shots they start with.
In my experience, from several dozen recent tournaments, the vast majority of shooty oriented lists, aka competitive ones were mostly a 5+ to hit.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Stalked21 wrote: I’m happy about this rule my buddy plays Necron and his -1 AP 40 shots 6’s do magic BS was getting old this will help some of my things survive more
Is he a Mephrit player?
Because Gauss has-1 AP on the basic rifles, but nothing special on 6s.
Tesla has two extra hits on 6s, but no AP.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Can you provide a quote from the rules that says AP caps out at 0.
Core Rules p.221 wrote: The player commanding the target unit then makes one saving throw by rolling one D6 and modifying the roll by the Armour Penetration (AP) characteristic of the weapon that the attack was made with. For example, if the weapon has an AP of -1, then 1 is subtracted from the saving throw roll. If the result is equal to, or greater than, the Save (Sv) characteristic of the model the attack was allocated to, then the saving throw is suffessful and the attack sequence ends.
Armour of Contempt wrote:Each time an attack is allocated to an ADEPTUS ASTARTES, SANCTIC ASTARTES, HERETIC ASTARTES or ADEPTA SORORITAS model, worsen the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
While it seems silly to think that enemy shooting could provide a benefit to the target model, I don't see anything RAW that prevents AP+1. I even checked the Errata!
If we take "worsen" in Armour of Contempt to mean "benefit the target model" or "make the attack less effective," then that would mean AP0 turns into AP+1.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Can you provide a quote from the rules that says AP caps out at 0.
Core Rules p.221 wrote: The player commanding the target unit then makes one saving throw by rolling one D6 and modifying the roll by the Armour Penetration (AP) characteristic of the weapon that the attack was made with. For example, if the weapon has an AP of -1, then 1 is subtracted from the saving throw roll. If the result is equal to, or greater than, the Save (Sv) characteristic of the model the attack was allocated to, then the saving throw is suffessful and the attack sequence ends.
Armour of Contempt wrote:Each time an attack is allocated to an ADEPTUS ASTARTES, SANCTIC ASTARTES, HERETIC ASTARTES or ADEPTA SORORITAS model, worsen the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
While it seems silly to think that enemy shooting could provide a benefit to the target model, I don't see anything RAW that prevents AP+1. I even checked the Errata!
If we take "worsen" in Armour of Contempt to mean "benefit the target model" or "make the attack less effective," then that would mean AP0 turns into AP+1.
Right here:
Reducing an AP characteristic: When reducing an AP characteristic, add the appropriate amount to the characteristic, to a maximum of 0. For example: reducing an AP of -1 by 1 would result in an AP of 0; reducing an AP of 0 by 1 would result in an AP of 0.
Grimskul wrote: AP-1 becomes AP0. Keep in mind that it caps out at AP0, so you wouldn't get +1 to your saves if you had someone shoot with an AP0 weapon.
Can you provide a quote from the rules that says AP caps out at 0.
Core Rules p.221 wrote: The player commanding the target unit then makes one saving throw by rolling one D6 and modifying the roll by the Armour Penetration (AP) characteristic of the weapon that the attack was made with. For example, if the weapon has an AP of -1, then 1 is subtracted from the saving throw roll. If the result is equal to, or greater than, the Save (Sv) characteristic of the model the attack was allocated to, then the saving throw is suffessful and the attack sequence ends.
Armour of Contempt wrote:Each time an attack is allocated to an ADEPTUS ASTARTES, SANCTIC ASTARTES, HERETIC ASTARTES or ADEPTA SORORITAS model, worsen the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
While it seems silly to think that enemy shooting could provide a benefit to the target model, I don't see anything RAW that prevents AP+1. I even checked the Errata!
If we take "worsen" in Armour of Contempt to mean "benefit the target model" or "make the attack less effective," then that would mean AP0 turns into AP+1.
Right here:
Reducing an AP characteristic: When reducing an AP characteristic, add the appropriate amount to the characteristic, to a maximum of 0. For example: reducing an AP of -1 by 1 would result in an AP of 0; reducing an AP of 0 by 1 would result in an AP of 0.
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