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What is the term for the type of Gargant that faces off and kills the Imperator Titan? A Mega Gargant? Or are they all just "gargants" and come in varying sizes.

Have the Black Templars ever had fights with the Mechanicus over their worship of a non-Emperor deity?

The Titan leaders seem to have no obligation to follow the requests/orders of even the Space Marines/Planetary leaders. Who do the Titan legions bow to? Is there anyone that they WOULD take orders from? Or is this the case of personalities clashing, not really rank?

Do the Scholas tend to create "special personalities" when it creates "storm troopers" or the like? This is the second book where the soldiers in question have definite "quirks" or personality jinks. They all seem to have some deviancy?

Is there any credence to the feeling that the Black Templars are sort of the SS of the faschist Imperium? When Grimaldus is killing orcs, some of the things he says "How dare you speak the tongue of the pure beings" or "You dare to exist in our world" sounds an aweful lot like bad tropes of the SS officers in old movies. There are also the "I refuse to listen to these filthy humans" from another non BT space marine. Is this just how ADB wrote them or is this really who they are?

Are Tech Marines the equivalent of SGTs? They seem to have higher standing in squads than simple battle brothers. Same with the Medics. I guess because they are specialists?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What is the term for the type of Gargant that faces off and kills the Imperator Titan? A Mega Gargant? Or are they all just "gargants" and come in varying sizes.

Yes - Mega Gargants are the largest (Stompa > Gargant > Great Gargant > Mega Gargant).

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The Titan leaders seem to have no obligation to follow the requests/orders of even the Space Marines/Planetary leaders. Who do the Titan legions bow to? Is there anyone that they WOULD take orders from? Or is this the case of personalities clashing, not really rank?

They are technically part of the AdMech, but are somewhat independant.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are Tech Marines the equivalent of SGTs? They seem to have higher standing in squads than simple battle brothers. Same with the Medics. I guess because they are specialists?

The specialists exist outside the normal command structure, but are held in high regard as they are the best of the best.

When you are controlling a Titan legion, who would you let boss you around.

The imperium is full of entities that all have equal standing and similar authority. It’s part of what makes it so joyfully dysfunctional. Even with the high lords they are so distant and the mechanisms of the bureaucracy so cumbersome that they cannot wield their power easily,

So you have the Titan legions, marines, imperial guard and planetary governors and church all having absolute power over their own domains. So any joint operations become a series of power struggles and clashes.

As for the black templars. They are the most zealous followers of an intolerant totalitarian regime that murders anything they don’t approve of, so yeah, very much SS. All marines are a bit that way being the shock troops of the regime but the templars are that on steroids.

ORKS don’t have standard constructions and designs so to them they are all probably gargants or such like but the imperium classifies them in order generally according to size and lethality.

Techmarines are like officers so more senior to a normal marine but as they leave the chapter to do their tech training they are always a bit “other” compared to most marines. Similar with apothecaries. Most armies have doctors as officers.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Do the Scholas tend to create "special personalities" when it creates "storm troopers" or the like? This is the second book where the soldiers in question have definite "quirks" or personality jinks. They all seem to have some deviancy?

Not anymore, the latest Scion codex quashed most of it, unfortunately, but back then, there was nothing written that would make Stormtroopers some sort personality-less operator. Andrej was a fringe case, imo, with a hint of the arrogance that may come with the fact that he was trained to be an elite soldier. Furthermore, there is, if memory serves, a mention of him being a Grenadier rather than a Stormtrooper after all, so he would have been a veteran Guardsman issued Stormtrooper gear. I think it's the Blood and Fire novella, but I could be mistaken.

1 - In this case, it would have indeed been a Mega Gargant.

2 - Probably at some point.

3 - The Collegia Titanicus is nominally subservient to the Adeptus Mechanicus but is generally independent of the wider Imperial command structure, just like Astartes.

4 - Helsreach is pre-Scion days when Stormtroopers could also be veteran troops from a given Regiment. That being said there is nothing to suggest that Stormtroopers are anything but human. They might be excellent soldiers but they can still crack a joke or find love.

5 - No. The Black Templars are not the SS. The Black Templars are a caricature of the Christian militant orders associated with the Crusades. They are religious zealots whose religion emphasises the hatred of Xenos and Mutants. If you swap the characters, say a particularly zealous Knight Templar and a Muslim soldier, it would be something similar.
The Black Templars are very much bad guys in the Imperium, they are blind in their faith viewing every action they take to be righteous as they are the God-Emperor's chosen warriors. They can do no wrong as they are already absolved of all crimes that they could possibly commit. "No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!" isn't just a motto, it's something the Templars take very literally. There is a short story where a Templar tries to become a Sword Brother, yet is denied because he spared a woman and her children who belonged to a version of the Imperial cult that had been declared heretical by a high-ranking priest. The Templar doesn't believe it is fair that innocent civilians should die because one man declared it, which goes against the first words of the Templar creed. No Pity.

6 - Chapter specialists outrank Sergeants, yes.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Do the Scholas tend to create "special personalities" when it creates "storm troopers" or the like? This is the second book where the soldiers in question have definite "quirks" or personality jinks. They all seem to have some deviancy?

So he was a storm trooper/elite unit. Lots of PDFs/Guard forces have elite units. The most famous is the Karskin. Scions are now distinct and a separate force (and according to some inquisitors only exist as a giant selection system for Ordos troops).

 Gert wrote:
1 - In this case, it would have indeed been a Mega Gargant.

2 - Probably at some point.

3 - The Collegia Titanicus is nominally subservient to the Adeptus Mechanicus but is generally independent of the wider Imperial command structure, just like Astartes.

4 - Helsreach is pre-Scion days when Stormtroopers could also be veteran troops from a given Regiment. That being said there is nothing to suggest that Stormtroopers are anything but human. They might be excellent soldiers but they can still crack a joke or find love.

5 - No. The Black Templars are not the SS. The Black Templars are a caricature of the Christian militant orders associated with the Crusades. They are religious zealots whose religion emphasises the hatred of Xenos and Mutants. If you swap the characters, say a particularly zealous Knight Templar and a Muslim soldier, it would be something similar.
The Black Templars are very much bad guys in the Imperium, they are blind in their faith viewing every action they take to be righteous as they are the God-Emperor's chosen warriors. They can do no wrong as they are already absolved of all crimes that they could possibly commit. "No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!" isn't just a motto, it's something the Templars take very literally. There is a short story where a Templar tries to become a Sword Brother, yet is denied because he spared a woman and her children who belonged to a version of the Imperial cult that had been declared heretical by a high-ranking priest. The Templar doesn't believe it is fair that innocent civilians should die because one man declared it, which goes against the first words of the Templar creed. No Pity.

6 - Chapter specialists outrank Sergeants, yes.

I disagree on the templars, although they are clearly “Templar” and crusaders with iconography styles taken from those tropes, the SS isn’t a bad comparison either given the state of the imperium. No chapter is going to be derived from the SS directly, GW isn’t that insensitive even in its more few wheeling early days. But there is a lot similarities between the SS and the templars, especially in attitude and intolerance.

Andykp wrote:
I disagree on the templars, although they are clearly “Templar” and crusaders with iconography styles taken from those tropes, the SS isn’t a bad comparison either given the state of the imperium. No chapter is going to be derived from the SS directly, GW isn’t that insensitive even in its more few wheeling early days. But there is a lot similarities between the SS and the templars, especially in attitude and intolerance.

If we're going based on attitudes and intolerance then they are more similar to the KKK or ISIS as they front religion as their main reason for hatred and violence.

The SS was a political bodyguard unit that evolved into combat divisions when Germany started doing war. The SS was explicitly an ideological organisation and members were required to renounce their Christian faith. They were primarily used to conduct the many genocides perpetrated by the Nazi regime, and even then combat divisions were more often used as anti-partisan or terror troops.

The Templars don't base their hatred or purity on racial ideology, it's religious. In the same way that many Crusaders believed they were doing the work of the Christian God in removing Muslims from the "Holy Land", the Templars believe they are doing the God-Emperor's work in removing non-Humans from the Galaxy. They don't sit around the back lines setting up camps to do genocide nor do they act as anti-partisan operators.

The Black Templars are absolute maniacs, but they are religious fanatics, not racial ideologues.

 Gert wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I disagree on the templars, although they are clearly “Templar” and crusaders with iconography styles taken from those tropes, the SS isn’t a bad comparison either given the state of the imperium. No chapter is going to be derived from the SS directly, GW isn’t that insensitive even in its more few wheeling early days. But there is a lot similarities between the SS and the templars, especially in attitude and intolerance.

If we're going based on attitudes and intolerance then they are more similar to the KKK or ISIS as they front religion as their main reason for hatred and violence.

The SS was a political bodyguard unit that evolved into combat divisions when Germany started doing war. The SS was explicitly an ideological organisation and members were required to renounce their Christian faith. They were primarily used to conduct the many genocides perpetrated by the Nazi regime, and even then combat divisions were more often used as anti-partisan or terror troops.

The Templars don't base their hatred or purity on racial ideology, it's religious. In the same way that many Crusaders believed they were doing the work of the Christian God in removing Muslims from the "Holy Land", the Templars believe they are doing the God-Emperor's work in removing non-Humans from the Galaxy. They don't sit around the back lines setting up camps to do genocide nor do they act as anti-partisan operators.

The Black Templars are absolute maniacs, but they are religious fanatics, not racial ideologues.

What are you talking about "renounce their Christian faith"? Where does this nonsense come from? SOURCE PLEASE. On every belt buckle read Gott Mitt Uns (God with us), as standard uniform. https://stalingradfront.com/preview/wm-big/pic/17528_1-1.jpg

I don't know if you are spouting Christian Apologetics, but it really has nothing to do with the racist and xenophobic traits that are baked into the Black Templars. They even hate base humans, which I see as a sort of contradiction of their existence, which is to protect and serve Humanity.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What are you talking about "renounce their Christian faith"? Where does this nonsense come from? SOURCE PLEASE. On every belt buckle read Gott Mitt Uns (God with us), as standard uniform. https://stalingradfront.com/preview/wm-big/pic/17528_1-1.jpg

Fezz that is an army buckle. The SS had buckles that bore the inscription "Meine Ehre heiBt Treue" (My honor is loyalty).


My source for the SS renouncing Christianity is this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Master-Dark-Arts-Heinrich/dp/0760337780
It's written by a well-rated author who is known for writing in-depth non-fiction historical biographies.
Again though, the SS were not religious fanatics and if there were wider beliefs in the Christian faith, the organisation did not primarily set out to do "God's work". Occultism and paganism were much more common.

I don't know if you are spouting Christian Apologetics, but it really has nothing to do with the racist and xenophobic traits that are baked into the Black Templars. They even hate base humans, which I see as a sort of contradiction of their existence, which is to protect and serve Humanity.

Not sure what that first bit is, if it helps I am not part of any religion and disagree with the concept entirely.
As for hating baseline humans, that is only some Templars so again you need to read the book with more care. It's a common trait in the Astartes that they look down on humanity for being lesser, giving into fear and falling to corruption or Chaos with relative ease. It's one of Horus's reasons for rebelling, he didn't feel mortals should rule the Imperium when Astartes were, in his and many others opinions, better at the job.

 Gert wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What are you talking about "renounce their Christian faith"? Where does this nonsense come from? SOURCE PLEASE. On every belt buckle read Gott Mitt Uns (God with us), as standard uniform. https://stalingradfront.com/preview/wm-big/pic/17528_1-1.jpg

Fezz that is an army buckle. The SS had buckles that bore the inscription "Meine Ehre heiBt Treue" (My honor is loyalty).

Spoiler:

My source for the SS renouncing Christianity is this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Master-Dark-Arts-Heinrich/dp/0760337780
It's written by a well-rated author who is known for writing in-depth non-fiction historical biographies.
Again though, the SS were not religious fanatics and if there were wider beliefs in the Christian faith, the organisation did not primarily set out to do "God's work". Occultism and paganism were much more common.

I don't know if you are spouting Christian Apologetics, but it really has nothing to do with the racist and xenophobic traits that are baked into the Black Templars. They even hate base humans, which I see as a sort of contradiction of their existence, which is to protect and serve Humanity.

Not sure what that first bit is, if it helps I am not part of any religion and disagree with the concept entirely.
As for hating baseline humans, that is only some Templars so again you need to read the book with more care. It's a common trait in the Astartes that they look down on humanity for being lesser, giving into fear and falling to corruption or Chaos with relative ease. It's one of Horus's reasons for rebelling, he didn't feel mortals should rule the Imperium when Astartes were, in his and many others opinions, better at the job.

Christian apologetic is the Philophical muscle of the wider Christian religion. One of it's main tropes is spouting a line that includes, all the greatest attrocities in the world were caused by lack of christian belief. I apologize for ascribing intent that was not there. I just hate seeing it. Got triggered. The symbolism of Black Templars as a devout religious organization is clear. However their rampant anger and hatred towards anything that is not them, (Which they believe themselves to be gods) leads to a rather stark example of Arianism. Or the belief that only you, who is perfect, in your personal belief, can exist, or deserve to do so. It was the Deserve that initially got me down this track. When Grimaldus is slamming the ork against the wall, he talks about the same themes. "You dare..." and such.

 Gert wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What are you talking about "renounce their Christian faith"? Where does this nonsense come from? SOURCE PLEASE. On every belt buckle read Gott Mitt Uns (God with us), as standard uniform. https://stalingradfront.com/preview/wm-big/pic/17528_1-1.jpg

Fezz that is an army buckle. The SS had buckles that bore the inscription "Meine Ehre heiBt Treue" (My honor is loyalty).

Spoiler:

My source for the SS renouncing Christianity is this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Master-Dark-Arts-Heinrich/dp/0760337780
It's written by a well-rated author who is known for writing in-depth non-fiction historical biographies.
Again though, the SS were not religious fanatics and if there were wider beliefs in the Christian faith, the organisation did not primarily set out to do "God's work". Occultism and paganism were much more common.

I don't know if you are spouting Christian Apologetics, but it really has nothing to do with the racist and xenophobic traits that are baked into the Black Templars. They even hate base humans, which I see as a sort of contradiction of their existence, which is to protect and serve Humanity.

Not sure what that first bit is, if it helps I am not part of any religion and disagree with the concept entirely.
As for hating baseline humans, that is only some Templars so again you need to read the book with more care. It's a common trait in the Astartes that they look down on humanity for being lesser, giving into fear and falling to corruption or Chaos with relative ease. It's one of Horus's reasons for rebelling, he didn't feel mortals should rule the Imperium when Astartes were, in his and many others opinions, better at the job.

The thing with the imperium is that church and state are one and the same really, the totalitarian dictator is also the god figure. His political teachings became the religious doctrine. They are one and the same.

The SS weren’t just death camps administrators, they were frontline shock troops too, the waffen SS?

The templars are all about purity, spiritual and genetic. If they happened across a nation of mutants or aliens, they would lap up the genocide. It’s part of the religion. There are similarities than differences. I’m not saying they aren’t like the kkk or Isis as well. But they are all SS like as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, helsreach was a book I really enjoyed, the battles for influence of all the imperial factions and within the factions, and just how fethed up the Templar’s were, they’re huge tools really. Refusing to administer to the salamanders because they were too soft and worried about normal people!!! And lots of ORKS, which is always good.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The symbolism of Black Templars as a devout religious organization is clear. However their rampant anger and hatred towards anything that is not them, (Which they believe themselves to be gods) leads to a rather stark example of Arianism. Or the belief that only you, who is perfect, in your personal belief, can exist, or deserve to do so. It was the Deserve that initially got me down this track. When Grimaldus is slamming the ork against the wall, he talks about the same themes. "You dare..." and such.

The thing is that feelings of supremacy aren't exclusively tied to Aryanism, and I think that's something people tend to miss a lot.
The Imperium is fascist, yes, but it takes garden variety racial/religious supremacy and takes it to the species level instead. Humanity is supreme because the God-Emperor said so. That's why the Templars are so ardent and forceful in their hatred of non-Humans, including Mutants. It isn't down to bogus science or dumb bloodline nonsense, it's literally because their God said so. It's why the SS comparison isn't a good one as their leaders weren't viewed as Gods, just very powerful men.
I also want to point out that in Helsreach, Grimaldus chastises members of his Crusade for their disgust towards mortals. He makes it clear to them that they shouldn't hate mortals because they have fear as it isn't their fault, it's just in their nature in the same way Astartes have no fear because it was bred/beaten/hypnotherapied out of them.

Andykp wrote:
The thing with the imperium is that church and state are one and the same really, the totalitarian dictator is also the god figure. His political teachings became the religious doctrine. They are one and the same.

The church and state are intertwined yes, but the Emperor's vision for society is very much not a part of the modern Imperium outside of "Humanity Stronk". The pre-Heresy Imperium was still bad but nowhere near as bad as it is after the Emperor get's chaired.

The SS weren’t just death camps administrators, they were frontline shock troops too, the waffen SS?

The templars are all about purity, spiritual and genetic. If they happened across a nation of mutants or aliens, they would lap up the genocide. It’s part of the religion. There are similarities than differences. I’m not saying they aren’t like the kkk or Isis as well. But they are all SS like as well.

The Waffen SS was also primarily used for genocide in the nations that Germany invaded. And even then the majority of the Waffen SS was better at warcrimes than fighting for most of WW2 and the organisation couldn't even stick to its own "purity" rules as soon as the war began.
But if we're going to say the Templars are like the SS because they do genocides and are shock troops, then all Space Marines are also like the SS, as well as the Sororitas, Mechanicus, Guard, Scions, Arbites, and any other military force the Imperium has. It's not a good comparison because it's far too broad a category that applies to far too many other organisations within the Imperium to make any concise point.

 Gert wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The symbolism of Black Templars as a devout religious organization is clear. However their rampant anger and hatred towards anything that is not them, (Which they believe themselves to be gods) leads to a rather stark example of Arianism. Or the belief that only you, who is perfect, in your personal belief, can exist, or deserve to do so. It was the Deserve that initially got me down this track. When Grimaldus is slamming the ork against the wall, he talks about the same themes. "You dare..." and such.

The thing is that feelings of supremacy aren't exclusively tied to Aryanism, and I think that's something people tend to miss a lot.
The Imperium is fascist, yes, but it takes garden variety racial/religious supremacy and takes it to the species level instead. Humanity is supreme because the God-Emperor said so. That's why the Templars are so ardent and forceful in their hatred of non-Humans, including Mutants. It isn't down to bogus science or dumb bloodline nonsense, it's literally because their God said so. It's why the SS comparison isn't a good one as their leaders weren't viewed as Gods, just very powerful men.
I also want to point out that in Helsreach, Grimaldus chastises members of his Crusade for their disgust towards mortals. He makes it clear to them that they shouldn't hate mortals because they have fear as it isn't their fault, it's just in their nature in the same way Astartes have no fear because it was bred/beaten/hypnotherapied out of them.

Andykp wrote:
The thing with the imperium is that church and state are one and the same really, the totalitarian dictator is also the god figure. His political teachings became the religious doctrine. They are one and the same.

The church and state are intertwined yes, but the Emperor's vision for society is very much not a part of the modern Imperium outside of "Humanity Stronk". The pre-Heresy Imperium was still bad but nowhere near as bad as it is after the Emperor get's chaired.

The SS weren’t just death camps administrators, they were frontline shock troops too, the waffen SS?

The templars are all about purity, spiritual and genetic. If they happened across a nation of mutants or aliens, they would lap up the genocide. It’s part of the religion. There are similarities than differences. I’m not saying they aren’t like the kkk or Isis as well. But they are all SS like as well.

The Waffen SS was also primarily used for genocide in the nations that Germany invaded. And even then the majority of the Waffen SS was better at warcrimes than fighting for most of WW2 and the organisation couldn't even stick to its own "purity" rules as soon as the war began.
But if we're going to say the Templars are like the SS because they do genocides and are shock troops, then all Space Marines are also like the SS, as well as the Sororitas, Mechanicus, Guard, Scions, Arbites, and any other military force the Imperium has. It's not a good comparison because it's far too broad a category that applies to far too many other organisations within the Imperium to make any concise point.

You make very fine points, and I see your argument. I think you have good points about the Emperor being deified, and that leading to his proclamations of humanities supremacy. That being said, how clear does it have to be that the Black Templars are the KKK of 40k? Do they need to start using slurs? I mean, "Mortal" is practically a slur, and the way Grimaldus expresses disgust with something is always to de-humanize it. Which is the first trope of deep seated racism. Calling Native Americans Mascots, comparing Africans to hominids, comparing mortals to pigs "his Porcine features..." it's all the same thing. And if we can effectively make the case that the BTs are the KKK, is it REALLY that far of a leap to say, compare them to the SS?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You make very fine points, and I see your argument. I think you have good points about the Emperor being deified, and that leading to his proclamations of humanities supremacy.

Humanity viewed itself as supreme in the Crusade era too, it was just more based on "We called dibs on the Galaxy" rather than racial or religious-based reasons. Of course, that is a generic trait, and how far into "Humanity Stronk" depended on culture or even just the individual. For example, Horus was content on assimilating the Interex into the Imperium, Xenos, and all if Erebus hadn't been a rat and started that conflict, whereas the Diasporex who were a Star Trek Federation esque nation Hatred of Xenos was often justified, especially with regard to species like the Orks or Rangdan which were absolute threats that couldn't be reasoned with. Certain Xenos species were made protectorates and others, like the Craftworlds, came down to "If you break our stuff we will kick your teeth in".

That being said, how clear does it have to be that the Black Templars are the KKK of 40k? Do they need to start using slurs? I mean, "Mortal" is practically a slur, and the way Grimaldus expresses disgust with something is always to de-humanize it. Which is the first trope of deep seated racism. Calling Native Americans Mascots, comparing Africans to hominids, comparing mortals to pigs "his Porcine features..." it's all the same thing. And if we can effectively make the case that the BTs are the KKK, is it REALLY that far of a leap to say, compare them to the SS?

To be clear, I did not say the Templars were the KKK of 40k. I said it would be more apt to compare the two as their Xenophobia is based on religion and even then it is a very crude comparison. Modern-day racial slurs are not the same as the use of the term "Mortal" as a derisive nor is it the same as Grimaldus referring to a fat sweaty Hive Militia officer as a swine. Context matters when it comes to picking up random quotes Fezz.
The Templars are the Crusading orders taken up to 1000, replacing the anti-Muslim sentiment with anti-Xenos sentiment.
The SS were not religious outside of pagan and occult practices, did not swear knightly oaths before battle, and were primarily used for conducting the Nazi's final solution.
As a comparison, it is entirely based on finding things that aren't the same as them inferior, which as I have already said applies to a hell of a lot of stuff in 40k. Would you say the entire Aeldari race is like the SS because they look down on every other species and called Humans "Mon'Keigh" as an insult?

Context both historical and fictional is important, as is taking more than just surface skimmings of information on comparisons.

It's funny, it took listening to an Eldar Farseer say "Mon'Keigh" in an audiobook before I realized it was "Monkey" I always thouight it was Mon-kae, which didn't clue me in either.

But yes, I would say that the common low born guardsman are stupidly racist, as are people like Cain who call people "Cogboys".

And yes, Eldar are a spectacular representation of elitist racism as well. But I'd really chalk them up to a bad representation of the dying days of the Fuedal Japanese dynasty in the early days of WW2. Talk about deifying their leaders. The Emperors were all chosen by god, and believed anyone not Japanese was inferior.

The Orks I have no idea what they represent, Football Hooligans? Tau are obvious. But I have to agree with you, 40k is a potent mix of hyper racism and fascistic tones are every corner.

I am happy to accept all Marine chapters are similar to he SS. But it doesn’t have to nazis, any totalitarian state political soldiers would do. All marines are like the SS, the templars are just the extreme of that, they are the most marine like marines.

They might be religiously puritans but when your religion involves the killing of anyone deemed to be different or inferior then the comparisons with naziism gain more ground. As a state I think the imperium has more in common with Stalinism, but it is a satire of all dictatorships and it definitely has its Nazi tropes as well.

None of the imperial factions are “good” and all share the same intolerances and bigotry. Maybe only the guard can claim ignorance but we well know the “just following orders” defence doesn’t work.

Except the Emperor specifically forbade religions in his name. The Black Templars are a literal walking stomping racist perversion of his dream. To be fair to B E I haven't read books the involve him, but I thought the majority of Humanity vs xenos was pablum stirred up by the church for propaganda.

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

Fez, you've got two topics in this thread that involve a topic that could very easily lead to breaking rule #1, and you seem to be diving headlong into that territory.

It sounds like you're, personally, going through some struggle. Are you ok?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Except the Emperor specifically forbade religions in his name. The Black Templars are a literal walking stomping racist perversion of his dream. To be fair to B E I haven't read books the involve him, but I thought the majority of Humanity vs xenos was pablum stirred up by the church for propaganda.

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

He didn’t want the church, but he did want and created all the things the church stands for.

His rules were for killing mutants, killing witches, and killing aliens. He violently subjugated anyone who resisted and was lucky enough not be just killed. The religion espouses toil and suffering in his name, something he was perfectly happy with, imperial citizens have a miserable serf like existence if they aren’t actually slaves, that was his way of doing things. Planets and their populations were just resources to be exploited until they were used up. He perpetuated war and suffering, and the religion that has been created in his name, albeit against his wishes, does exactly the same.

So yes, the religion is one of the big problems in the imperium, but the religion is based on his way of doing things. Now I know people will jump in saying. But he let this race live, and he let these people carry on. The great crusade was a mass invasion and colonisation, a huge war of conquest that committed genocide many times over. Letting the odd people survive doesn’t make up for all the times they committed atrocities. The emperor was a dick. And the religion worshipping him is as bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arcanis161 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

Fez, you've got two topics in this thread that involve a topic that could very easily lead to breaking rule #1, and you seem to be diving headlong into that territory.

It sounds like you're, personally, going through some struggle. Are you ok?

They are both topics that are key parts of the 40k background and I think they are carried out in a mature and sensible way.

Arcanis161 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

Fez, you've got two topics in this thread that involve a topic that could very easily lead to breaking rule #1, and you seem to be diving headlong into that territory.

It sounds like you're, personally, going through some struggle. Are you ok?

I appreciate your concern, however your public offer of help is more of a personal attack than a sincere offer, so perhaps you need to stop projecting and turn the mirror around, or actually learn to do what you think you are trying to do.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Please illucidate me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the church, the very thing he didn't want, is the cause of most of the problems in the galaxy concerning humanity.

Fez, you've got two topics in this thread that involve a topic that could very easily lead to breaking rule #1, and you seem to be diving headlong into that territory.

It sounds like you're, personally, going through some struggle. Are you ok?

I appreciate your concern, however your public offer of help is more of a personal attack than a sincere offer, so perhaps you need to stop projecting and turn the mirror around, or actually learn to do what you think you are trying to do.

No offense intended; I must have just misread the situation, so I apologize.