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With a 2 week pre-order window, 3D sculpturs have copies of the new models out before they are officially released
not telling people in advance makes no real difference here

but "resin bits" market is also just a fraction of the hobby as there are still enough people who either don't want or don't care about anything but plastic
this only goes for veterans who aren't GWs target group anyway

the one reason GW has given for being coy would still be the same, they don't want people to wait for a new kit but to buy now, so giving away too many details would make people wait which they don't want

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I hope they're paying whoever is frantically writing all these missing units into the pdf as we speak well.

I'd bet your paycheck that the work was done a while ago.

I'm betting that it was done by an intern. As usual.

We don't really have interns in the UK, I know youre joking, just a chance to state that for people's knowledge!

 kodos wrote:

the one reason GW has given for being coy would still be the same, they don't want people to wait for a new kit but to buy now, so giving away too many details would make people wait which they don't want

Sure, but in reality as soon there is a hint that a kit is going to be replaced, a lot of people are going to stop buying it. I can't prove it, but I bet sales of the plastic Cataphractii went down as soon as the teaser image of the (supposed) new one went up. So the secretiveness still doesn't really seem to help. It may ultimately just be about generating hype by creating suspense.

PDF announcement today:

They should have released the PDF article right when stuff started blowing up. Seriously, if you see fire, you don't wait three days to call the fire department. They just sucked all the good feelings out of their own release, and I know it's cost sales. How much sales? Dunno, but at several of my local stores, I've heard them complaining about people canceling their pre-orders so I know it is happening.

I also wonder how much bigger the PDF is now because of all the anger? How much deliberation was made to include things in the PDF to put out fires, and how much are they going to sell back to us as DLC down the line in the TACTICA books.

Lastly, if they didn't tell the influencers about what was in the PDF, then they really set them up take all the heat for GW and that's a massive jerk move.

assuming the list of units going into the pdf and/or said pdf already existed when stuff started blowing up (like you call the fire department but there is none and it takes time to build one)

and currently it looks really like that this wasn't planned before but is a reaction to the community outcry

 BorderCountess wrote:

To be fair, the whole Heresy only took about a decade...

It did? That makes it even more absurd that they invented several armour marks and bunch of other stuff during that era and then basically nothing for the next ten millennia!

Dudeface wrote:
We don't really have interns in the UK, I know youre joking, just a chance to state that for people's knowledge!

but there are some kind of trainee/apprentice jobs where you get paid while you learn?
I recall what we call the Praktika or Ferialpraktika is "Placement" in the UK, a job you need to take as part of your study program (and Praktikant would be what we would use for that joke)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

To be fair, the whole Heresy only took about a decade...

It did? That makes it even more absurd that they invented several armour marks and bunch of other stuff during that era and then basically nothing for the next ten millennia!

that is part of the grimdark flair of 40k
200 year crusade to conquer the galaxy, recovering and developing technology to build up the great Empire of Man, 10 years civil war that put everything into ruins with most of the technology being lost
followed by 10.000 years of post-apocylptic stagnation and decline where the surviors just try to keep going with what they have while other big threats are building up to give humanity the final blow

and the absurdity of this the main flair that makes 40k so different to any other SciFi setting

 Crimson wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

To be fair, the whole Heresy only took about a decade...

It did? That makes it even more absurd that they invented several armour marks and bunch of other stuff during that era and then basically nothing for the next ten millennia!

Everything went pearshaped after the big E's thronement. The Imperial Cult set in, AdMech's knowledge hoarding intensified.. Is it any wonder nothing susbtantial happened after the primus motors of the IoM were cut down, replaced by pointless bureaucracy and superstition?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I'm betting that it was done by an intern. As usual.

Another possibility...

Management told the design team to cut back on a whole swathe of units, which they might have readily agreed to because the Libers were rocking in at 350-odd pages already and would otherwise have been truly titanic/unrealistic.

However, the design team cares about the Heresy and its players, and knew right from the get-go that they had to do something for those expunged units. So, they put together this free PDF, and it is entirely possible that this was done on their own time. They take steps to ensure all these units would stay 'current' and 'legal' in the game, because they know 40k players view legacy units as the kiss of death.

They get all this prepped to be released alongside the Libers on week one. All bases are covered. They feel pretty good about themselves.

Then something gets leaked, people lose their heads a little, and begin suggesting this PDF is being rush-written in barely a week, by interns nonetheless.

Design team possibly feeling a little less good about themselves.

I have no direct insider knowledge on this, but knowing what I do, this is entirely possible.

Given that this was all started by a presumably (by GW) unintended leak, reactions have been... less than awesome. Especially as we knew this PDF was coming really quite some time ago.

Not picking on you, my good Gadzilla. More a community thing.

Possible, but than the question would be, why have they waited another week to get the news about said pdf out?

because the reviews of the books were planned for the pre-order day
so without the leaks this would have happened as well, just some days later

so in the best case this was poor planning and the people there didn't think the community would react that way to units and options being cut

Could be

ToW legacy factions are certainly better than management would want them to be

Then again, HH 2.0 legacies were trash

 kodos wrote:
Possible, but than the question would be, why have they waited another week to get the news about said pdf out?

Honestly? Because it had already been announced. We knew there would be legacy PDF almost from the start of the run-up to release, it really does seem like some people forgot this. We didn't know the contents of it, of course, but GW had already said a bunch of 'missing' units would be in there.

Multi-million pound companies turn like an oil tanker. They had a plan for the run-up to launch, so stick with the plan. Yesterday's post was obviously a reaction to the turmoil, but in my mind's eye I can see some people at GW scratching their heads wondering why this blew up when they already had the fix ready to go, and had announced it.

As for the influencers... I have no idea, mate No idea what was happening with those with ties to GW (and we may never really know). As for the 'independent' influencers... well, there might well have been a degree of controversy baiting going on (though I was happy to see Discourse had not dived into it).

Don't get me wrong, I am no GW apologist. I just prefer to enjoy my hobby than get mad about it (Honest Wargamer had a good take on this).

There's going to be a significant lead-time on physical Tactica Journals going from print to distribution, presumably several months. Given the number of Journals needed, I assume we are going to see some overlap where the first few books will already be written but will arrive after the PDF is published.
Very interested to see if any units appear in both publications because that would be a smoking gun that planned paid content was suddenly rushed forward as a response to the backlash.

Mozzamanx wrote:

Very interested to see if any units appear in both publications because that would be a smoking gun that planned paid content was suddenly rushed forward as a response to the backlash.

Or...

They put placeholders for such units in the PDF, fully intending to go back at a later date and go into more detail (maybe because want they want to explore is a bit too much for the PDF, maybe - just maybe - because a plastic release is coming which will provide more options).

Just speculation, obviously.

Bits & Kits is offering individual items from the Saturnine box set. Alas, all the Saturnine Praetors sold out in a hot second, missed that one.. Everything else seems to still be available, so bought 10 MKII for my kitbashing box. Thinking there might be some cool bashing options with my MKIII command Squad models, perhaps the modern MKII & MKIII could be used interchangeably somehow..

They also have the rulebook on offer, for much cheaper than what GW is asking..

MongooseMatt wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

Very interested to see if any units appear in both publications because that would be a smoking gun that planned paid content was suddenly rushed forward as a response to the backlash.

Or...

They put placeholders for such units in the PDF, fully intending to go back at a later date and go into more detail (maybe because want they want to explore is a bit too much for the PDF, maybe - just maybe - because a plastic release is coming which will provide more options).

Just speculation, obviously.

Not too hard to speculate on that as they literally said that's a possibility in the Legacy article....

Nor would it be the 1st time such a move was made (well, maybe for 30k) - over in 40k they pulled my named Navigator out of Legends & made him a generic in the Agents of the Imperium Codex.
Even re-used his model.

Can we take the off topic chatter elsewhere please.

 Snord wrote:

 kodos wrote:

the one reason GW has given for being coy would still be the same, they don't want people to wait for a new kit but to buy now, so giving away too many details would make people wait which they don't want

Sure, but in reality as soon there is a hint that a kit is going to be replaced, a lot of people are going to stop buying it. I can't prove it, but I bet sales of the plastic Cataphractii went down as soon as the teaser image of the (supposed) new one went up. So the secretiveness still doesn't really seem to help. It may ultimately just be about generating hype by creating suspense.

Isn't all this stuff out of stock anyway?

MongooseMatt wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Possible, but than the question would be, why have they waited another week to get the news about said pdf out?

Honestly? Because it had already been announced. We knew there would be legacy PDF almost from the start of the run-up to release, it really does seem like some people forgot this. We didn't know the contents of it, of course, but GW had already said a bunch of 'missing' units would be in there.

we knew there would be something but not what

so why did no one who got a review copy knew that the missing units will be there, why didn't GW announce that the missing units will be there on the pre-order day
why did they feel the need to write "we heard your complains" into the preview of something that was always planned that way?

2 possibilities, the guy who is responsible for the marketing just lost his job, or it wasn't planned to have the units in there

 kodos wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Possible, but than the question would be, why have they waited another week to get the news about said pdf out?

Honestly? Because it had already been announced. We knew there would be legacy PDF almost from the start of the run-up to release, it really does seem like some people forgot this. We didn't know the contents of it, of course, but GW had already said a bunch of 'missing' units would be in there.

we knew there would be something but not what

so why did no one who got a review copy knew that the missing units will be there, why didn't GW announce that the missing units will be there on the pre-order day
why did they feel the need to write "we heard your complains" into the preview of something that was always planned that way?

2 possibilities, the guy who is responsible for the marketing just lost his job, or it wasn't planned to have the units in there

We are not supposed to have read the actual rules yet, and it would have been weird to release the legacy pdf before the actual rules. Now they did anyway, in the same way they decide to do a community article about new models beeing leaked.

As for the influencers, obviously GW want them to use the new rules and the playstyle they made up. The influencers are marketing, and they want them to market the actual product for sure. Would have been more strange to see them having legacy rules in their commercials for the new rules.

Im not sure they had the legacy rules as large as they now released, but to me the reasoning makes some sense from a GW perspective.

 kodos wrote:

so why did no one who got a review copy knew that the missing units will be there, why didn't GW announce that the missing units will be there on the pre-order day

The simple answer for that is that GW (and especially SDS) love doing all their homework at the last minute. There's been so many cases of their digital rules missing expected release dates that it doesn't shock me influencers didn't get an early copy.

Also releasing the files rather than alongside the printed liber reviews keeps people talking about HH for longer.

 Fayric wrote:

We are not supposed to have read the actual rules yet, and it would have been weird to release the legacy pdf before the actual rules.

we are supposed to have reviews now and the usual "somebody reading the full book off youtube" by now
the information we are supposed to have isn't any different, just that they waited a week to clear up the mess that would have happened anyway.
like the outrage would have been even bigger if the reviews like goonhammer just mentioned it in the sidenote while people being reading off screentshots from youtube to come to the conclusion that a lot of stuff is missing

New Cataphractii design: