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I want to make the most of all my old Terminators, so I threw together a Deathwing list mostly utilizing only models I actually own. The only models I don't have are Belial, DW Apothecary, and DW Champion, but I do plan to get a DW Command box to make them as an Apothecary is practically auto-include in any SM list these days. And I just really like the DA robes look...

Anyway, I made an alternate list just to toss in a Land Raider for fun, so I'm looking for thoughts and potentially suggestions for minor improvements. This isn't meant to be top tier and I'm not looking to go out and buy a whole new army, just want to have fun rolling dice and let old classics see the tables again. I only plan to get one new box, a DW Command, from which I plan to make models I don't have, namely DW Apothecary, Champion, Ancient, Plasma Cannon, and a Belial stand in since I strongly dislike Finecast.


Original:

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [89 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Dark Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Unit Filter: Hide Legends Units

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ No Force Org Slot +

Deathwing Apothecary [6 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Foe-Smiter, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Deathwing Champion [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Champion, Martial Exemplar, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Deathwing Command Squad [10 PL, 225pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

+ HQ +

Belial [7 PL, 140pts]
. Sword of Silence & Storm Bolter

Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator Armor [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Combi-melta, Litany of Hate, Mace of Redemption, Stratagem: Paragon of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord, Wise Orator

+ Elites +

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 210pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 210pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 210pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

++ Total: [89 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++


Alternate:


++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [90 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Dark Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Unit Filter: Hide Legends Units

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ No Force Org Slot +

Deathwing Apothecary [6 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Foe-Smiter, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Deathwing Command Squad [10 PL, 210pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)

+ HQ +

Belial [7 PL, 140pts]
. Sword of Silence & Storm Bolter

Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator Armor [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Combi-melta, Litany of Hate, Mace of Redemption, Stratagem: Paragon of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord, Wise Orator

+ Elites +

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [9 PL, 215pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider [15 PL, 310pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Multi-melta, Rites of Initiation, Storm bolter

++ Total: [90 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Swap out champion for ancient and give it the DA banner for the -1 DMG for a selected unit per turn it makes a huge difference now that everything is DMG 2+. I would also run list 1 never had any luck with land raiders in 9th

Sorry if I missed it somewhere but do Deathwing ignore the Rule of 3 for the datasheets thing in 2000pt lists?

 Brometheus wrote:
Sorry if I missed it somewhere but do Deathwing ignore the Rule of 3 for the datasheets thing in 2000pt lists?

Rule of three doesn't count for troops, DW Terminators are kinda like the troops of DW... So, maybe it's a Deathwing thing in 1st Company Detachments? I don't know, but Battlescribe shows no errors with those lists. I often forget that rule even exists since it comes up so rarely for me. I'll try checking around to see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I can't find anything about it, so I assume rule of three still applies. In that case, just switch out the necessary 2 or 3 squads with either regular Terminators or Relic Terminators. They're more or less the same for my intents and purposes. Heck, could proxy a DW Knights with old TH&SS models. Close enough for government work as they say.

They aren't Troops. They're Elites that have Objective Secured in pure deathwing/inner circle detachments :\ That's why we get the refund on CP if the warlord is in there, because we are basically forced into Vanguard dets or FA for Ravenwing.

The rule you'd be looking for wouldn't likely be in Battlescribe- it's in the ruleset and mission packs you are playing. For example, the monthly tournament at my FLGS follows Nachmund currently and match play for those GT rulesets generally follows that rule of 3 crap (I think its bs personally) but if you bring this list someone might point that out. Your best move would be to consolidate the deathwing units into 10man bricks and just Combat Squad if possible. I think they have that?

This list does violate the rule of three if you're using the rule.

To make this list legal, you need to combat squad 10-man units into two 5-man units.

Ideally, I would swap out one of the squads with a unit of 5-man DWK. You would be swapping out 1 CML for much better melee & defense capabilities.

Also, Belial is a trap unit for melee focused DW list - strikemaster is better for the reroll 1's to wound and the Int Chap already give you reroll hits in melee. If you want to spread out the reroll hit aura instead of stacking reroll hit + wound, then a second Int Chap is better than Belial.

Also, Ancient >>>>>>>>> Champion.

Stalked21 wrote:
Swap out champion for ancient and give it the DA banner for the -1 DMG for a selected unit per turn it makes a huge difference now that everything is DMG 2+. I would also run list 1 never had any luck with land raiders in 9th

Land raider certainly doesn't pull its weight in points, but it does make for a good distraction carnifex.

Revised list based on suggestions and rule of three:


++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [94 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Dark Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Deathwing Vanguard Detachment [3CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Unit Filter: Hide Legends Units

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ No Force Org Slot +

Deathwing Apothecary [6 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ HQ +

Deathwing Strikemaster [6 PL, 95pts]: Foe-Smiter, Master-crafted power sword, Storm bolter

Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator Armor [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Combi-melta, Litany of Hate, Mace of Redemption, Stratagem: Paragon of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord, Wise Orator

+ Elites +

Deathwing Command Squad [10 PL, 180pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)

Deathwing Knights [11 PL, 240pts]: Knight Master, Watcher in the Dark
. 4x Deathwing Knight: 4x Mace of Absolution, 4x Storm shield

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 410pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 405pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 405pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Chainfist: Chainfist, Cyclone missile launcher
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist
. Deathwing Terminator
. . Storm Bolter & Chainfist: Chainfist

++ Total: [94 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Combat Squad split for the DW Terminators would be Sgt+4x LC/2xWW+3xCF. LC teleport into charges, WW/CF hold objectives. Chap and Medic stick with LC, LT sits back with ranged squads as LC have built in full wound rerolls.

I'd run it. Very interested to see how this performs in the new missions coming up.

Just a thought, it is worth swapping out the Deathwing Apothecary for a Ravenwing Apothecary? I know it is slightly less fluffy but it still works. The Ravenwing Apothecary also has the INNER CIRCLE keyword so maintains all your bonuses. You lose the 2+ save for TDA but gain T5 and a lot of mobility. That mobility could be useful late game if you need to zoom over and heal a key Character or reinforce a crucial unit.

Pretty minor change but food for thought.

 Karhedron wrote:
Just a thought, it is worth swapping out the Deathwing Apothecary for a Ravenwing Apothecary? I know it is slightly less fluffy but it still works. The Ravenwing Apothecary also has the INNER CIRCLE keyword so maintains all your bonuses. You lose the 2+ save for TDA but gain T5 and a lot of mobility. That mobility could be useful late game if you need to zoom over and heal a key Character or reinforce a crucial unit.

Pretty minor change but food for thought.

Nope as you would lose out on the detachmental CP cost refund via 1st company.

 skchsan wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Just a thought, it is worth swapping out the Deathwing Apothecary for a Ravenwing Apothecary? I know it is slightly less fluffy but it still works. The Ravenwing Apothecary also has the INNER CIRCLE keyword so maintains all your bonuses. You lose the 2+ save for TDA but gain T5 and a lot of mobility. That mobility could be useful late game if you need to zoom over and heal a key Character or reinforce a crucial unit.

Pretty minor change but food for thought.

Nope as you would lose out on the detachmental CP cost refund via 1st company.

No, you still get 1st Company.

The key bit is "Or Inner Circle". Since the Ravenwnig Apothecary has INNER CIRCLE, you still get all the 1st Company rules applies, including the CP refund.

Unless you are worried about style or being able to teleport (why?), I'm afraid that the Ravenwing Apothecary is a better choice than the Deathwing Apothecary. He does not break the 1s Company restrictions.

Unless I'm missing something in other rules about DA, it does appear that Ravenwing Apothecary is directly superior in both movement and damage output. It's even theoretically more survivable considering it trades AS2+->3+ for T4->5 plus varying 5++ or 4++. It is a bit of a pity to not be able to teleport in with the rest, but that's fairly negligible given the base 14" MS on bikes.

I will consider him, as I have an old Apothecary on Bike model, thus eliminating my need for new models entirely. The biggest downside of the RW Apothecary is that he takes an Elite slot, whereas the DW Apothecary can be outside force org with the DW Command Squad, which can itself be outside force org if I took a Captain rank model. Unless maybe I should switch out the DW Command for a RW BK?

Black Knights do give you access to some good mobile plasma which is great for deleting elite infantry at range.

 Karhedron wrote:
Black Knights do give you access to some good mobile plasma which is great for deleting elite infantry at range.

Yeah, I noticed that when I was checking their sheet. I'm honestly a little tempted to try and build a RW army now. Except I would need to buy most of it still as my collection of bikes is just old character models. I think all I have is 2 chaplains, a techmarine, an apothecary, an ancient, and an officer (the old power sword sgt). Unfortunately, except for the RW apothecary, RW ancient, and the generic officer, those are all Legends now. Sill, I could just throw them on the field and call them RW BKs for casual games. Maybe make the officer a Captain, apothecary as himself, and the techmarine, chaps, and ancient as a BK unit with hammers.