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Tyranids have a secondary which is called cranial feasting, which requires to kill a CHARACTER or a unit champion. Identifying the unit champion is easy for some units, like for (chaos) space marines, they have a sergeant, or a champion. Its not so easy for other units.

Do skorpekh destroyers have a unit champion, when one of them is equipped with a hyperphase reap-blade ? Every model is equipped with hyperphase threshers, and for every three models one can have a hyperphase reap-blade, does that make that model the unit champion ? What if the unit has six models, and there are two models with a hyperphase reap-blade ? Are both champions, or no one ?

What about aeldari rangers ? They all have the same gear, but you can equip one model with a gloom field. Does that make that one model the unit champion ?

What makes a unit champion a unit champion ? I feel like the description of unit champion is pretty vague. It sounds like its one model, and it often (which means not always) has better characteristics and access to different wargear options.

CRANIAL FEASTING
Each time an enemy CHARACTER model or unit champion is destroyed by a melee attack made by a HIVE TENDRIL model from your army, roll one D6, adding 2 to the result if that HIVE TENDRIL model has the FEEDER TENDRILS keyword, and adding 2 to the result if the destroyed model has the CHARACTER keyword: on a 6+, you gain 1 Command point.

UNIT CHAMPIONS
Many units are led by a champion of some kind, such as a Sergeant. Unit champions often have better characteristics and access to different wargear options. Unless noted otherwise, unit champion models have the same points value as other models in their unit.

Given that this is bound to dive into a shitshow of "citations please", I would just compromise and assume it's any particular model with a different statline in the unit's datasheet, such as Sergeants, Aspiring Champions, Shas'Uis and Nobs.

Anything in a unit that is a single model and has a different statline than the rest of the unit. (like Traitor Guardsman list a single model as a Traitor Sergeant for Chaos Space Marines or the Justicar in a Grey Knights Strike Squad. The Intercessor Sergeant in a Deathwatch Space Marines Fortis Kill Team but not any of the others (as the Intercessor Sergeant is listed as 1, and all the rest are 0-5 or 4-9 models)). (This is probably what they meant judging by the history of the game).

The Necrons Skorpekh Destroyers do not have a unit champion.

Hence why the definition has a "many" and "often" as a get out. Not all units have a unit champion. It isn't a necessary condition for a unit.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Given that this is bound to dive into a shitshow of "citations please", I would just compromise and assume it's any particular model with a different statline in the unit's datasheet, such as Sergeants, Aspiring Champions, Shas'Uis and Nobs.

Exactly this. It’s very easy to figure out which units have a Champion thusly.

I'll echo the general consensus.

When there's a singular different model with improved stats, that's the unit champion.
Rangers do not have that, nor do Skorpekhs.

I would, if you are playing with or against Tyranids and plan to use this secondary, talk to the TO (if at a tournament) or your opponent (if you're just having a good time) to clarify if needed, but it's generally pretty intuitive.

And yes, GW could've worded this better for sure. No need to make it an issue when it's pretty clear how to make it work, though.

You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

Because GW is well-known for perfectly airtight rules writing.
They always go over every other unit when they write a rule, and never miss anything.

The rule is not ironclad-if you use it or have it used against you, talk to your opponent or TO before the match and go over your or your opponent’s army, and figure out what counts. Shouldn’t be too hard for reasonable people.

There is an option for a Unit Champion to not have better characteristics, not a requirement that there must be at least one Unit Champion somewhere in the game that does not have better characteristics.

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

I did not ignore that at all, and there are champions which dont have better characteristics...

Check out the Orks – Nobz Dataslate.



P.S. even if there weren't any champions that did not have better characteristics, it says 'often has better characteristics' because that way they can add things that do not in the future. It is called future proofing.

For me the way to distinguish if a model is a unit champion or not it must fulfill two conditions:

- On the datasheet the model must have a separate profile from the rest of the models in the unit.

- The model has a minimum/maximum of one model in the unit.

By this definition the Spanners in the Lootas unit would not qualify as you can take up to three of them.

 KingGarland wrote:
For me the way to distinguish if a model is a unit champion or not it must fulfill two conditions:

- On the datasheet the model must have a separate profile from the rest of the models in the unit.

- The model has a minimum/maximum of one model in the unit.

By this definition the Spanners in the Lootas unit would not qualify as you can take up to three of them.

Yep, sorry, thought it said 1, it says 1-3, so the Spanners in the Lootas unit are not champs.

But the Boss Meganob in a unit of Orks – Meganobz is, and has the same statline as the Meganobs in that unit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

But the Boss Meganob in a unit of Orks – Meganobz is, and has the same statline as the Meganobs in that unit.

You are correct. It still fulfills the two conditions of mine so I would consider it to be a unit champion.

I do find it weird that it does have the same profile. I feel it should have an extra attack at least.

They're all "veterans" is the way I look at it.

This seems like another p5 thread. Obvious answer neve been an issue

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

So there's option to have unit champion that has same stats.

Doesn't mean there has to be NOW RIGHT NOW AT THIS INSTANT.

DUCY?

There's this thing called "future proofing".

tneva82 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

So there's option to have unit champion that has same stats.

Doesn't mean there has to be NOW RIGHT NOW AT THIS INSTANT.

That option is already being used.

Nothing in the rules says that a unit champion has to have a separate entry on a units datasheet. He can have different stats, but thats not mandatory. He has access to different wargear options. By that definition a skorpekh destroyer with a reap blade is a unit champion.

Minimum: slightly higher leadership, slightly different loadout options

Just my opinion.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

So there's option to have unit champion that has same stats.

Doesn't mean there has to be NOW RIGHT NOW AT THIS INSTANT.

That option is already being used.

Nothing in the rules says that a unit champion has to have a separate entry on a units datasheet. He can have different stats, but thats not mandatory. He has access to different wargear options. By that definition a skorpekh destroyer with a reap blade is a unit champion.

And? This'll go round in circles before getting locked. Just house-rule it or don't take the secondary.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You all ignore the unit champion rule which says that the champion often has better characteristics. But often is not always. Otherwise it would say always has better characteristics. So there must be champions which dont have better characteristics.

So there's option to have unit champion that has same stats.

Doesn't mean there has to be NOW RIGHT NOW AT THIS INSTANT.

That option is already being used.

Nothing in the rules says that a unit champion has to have a separate entry on a units datasheet. He can have different stats, but thats not mandatory. He has access to different wargear options. By that definition a skorpekh destroyer with a reap blade is a unit champion.

Wrong. You're committing the same fallacy as usual, which is a implies b does not mean b implies a. Just because a unit champion often has access to different war gear options means that having access to different war gear options makes you a unit champion. You're not permitted to reverse that "often" phrase because often is not always.