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So WotC released a statement that they are soon moving to release their new version of DnD, called DnD: One. This is considered by many in the TTRPG community as a new platform to launch DnD 6ed.

GW has all but given us the writing on the wall that 10th will be some time in the next 12-24 months. Given that timeline puts it smack dab in the middle of a competitive buyers market for TT games, do you think GW has considered this, cares, or even realizes it?

Not saying the two fan bases are absolutely the same, but most people who rush out to spend their money on one game series update, will likely hesitate to rush out to spend the same if not more, on a second series update.

This presents me my next observation:

GW fans are by the most part much more financially able to do both. Very few serious players of GW's base find themselves in the lower income bracket.

I would say the opposite of DnD's fanbase. Usually 1 book every couple of months was all I could afford as a kid, or a set of minis. I started (Was given) with a copy of ADnD in 1984. I didn't start actually playing until 1989, in 2nd. At that time I was a teen, and dependent on gifts or chore money. But I was still able to play, if all my friends had player manuals and I had the monster manual/DM guide. 5th revolutionized DnD though. Now you could literally play DnD in any income bracket. Almost everything was free, or easy to access. Player sheets were easily downloaded, or digital. Manuals became digital, or PDF at the least. Or libraries began carrying them.

You can't find that sort of thing for 40k. There is a significant investment hurdle into 40k.

If GW wants 10th to be successful, they need to go full into the digital era, and give people the option. Their app by all accounts is sheer garbage, still. You cannot get over the cost of models. That's inescapable.

However, TLDR; If GW wants 10th to be a success, they need to not release it in the same window as DnD's next edition, like Sony, Nintento, and microsoft do with consoles every year, with the Playstation vs the Xbox v the Nintendo.

DnD and 40k aren't the same hobby, its not at all the same as two videogames coming out at the same time.

I don't think GW should pay attention to what anyone else is doing in the wargames sector, never mind the wider TT/RPG hobby sector. They're not about to make changes that would have massive financial implications just because a company in a tangentially related field decides to put out a new release at roughly the same time.

10th will likely be a success whenever it's released. I'm genuinely confused why you think D&D releases would have any real impact on that, especially given you note yourself the smaller buy-in cost for most D&D players.

I don't think there's any risks at all really.

They are very different games and related, but separate markets. Furthermore for those already in the hobby, both are basically just a new hardback book.

DnD is fairly light on required purchases so I'd wager most heavily into the GW hobbies can easily afford both in a given year or even a month or two apart.






As for digital I think that its nice to have, but not essential for physical tabletop games. GW have invested so much into "The Hobby" that their market is very physical. They've no need to push for an all digital market of the tabletop game.

DnD is different and the company has never pushed the physical elements so going digital is much easier as its not stepping on the toes of their own physical products all that much. At least not in the same way as it would do so for GW.




GW are also the Juggernaut in their market. They basically don't have to worry about other games releasing a new edition or such. Other games more likely worry about GW release dates of major releases.

Fifa '13 is a very different game than Mass Effect 3, but even EA wasn't dumb enough to release those at the same time.

There is such a thing as predictive analytics when it comes to releasing a new product.

Toyota doesn't release their newest lineups at the same time as Ford, etc. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.

It's bad because we're barely through this edition. Better throw it out though since the rules are a jumbled mess as always

I miss the option "doesn't matter"
To me they're not related, DnD is not really a thing in Germany I think as we have DSA.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
...Toyota doesn't release their newest lineups at the same time as Ford, etc. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.

Unless D&D One is a return aaaaallll the way back to the Chainmail wargaming roots of D&D, this isn't what's happening. Toyota isn't releasing their lineup alongside Ford, they're releasing it alongside Yamaha.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Fifa '13 is a very different game than Mass Effect 3, but even EA wasn't dumb enough to release those at the same time.

There is such a thing as predictive analytics when it comes to releasing a new product.

Toyota doesn't release their newest lineups at the same time as Ford, etc. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.

You can't compare this at all with a new edition of D&D and Warhammer.

1. Usually the Dungeon Master is the dude with the books. Especially nowadays were you can share all your purchases with your gaming group on D&D Beyond. So there is little to no incentive for anyone in an existing group to buy a book on their own.
2. This means the larger part of every D&D group got no cost at all and is free to spend their money on Warhammer, if they happen to engage in both hobbies.
3. Neither is a product which you buy, take home with you, plug it in and then use it. People usually have set dates every week where they meet up to play them, as they both take alot of time for each session. People's schedules don't suddenly become more relaxed just because there is a new edition of anything. If you are meeting up with your dudes and dudettes once a month to go dungeon crawling, you will still do that.

The only thing you might want to do as either company, is to not release your new mainline product on the same day. Just for the sake of having the most exciting thing happening on that day.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Fifa '13 is a very different game than Mass Effect 3, but even EA wasn't dumb enough to release those at the same time.

There is such a thing as predictive analytics when it comes to releasing a new product.

Toyota doesn't release their newest lineups at the same time as Ford, etc. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.

The difference is that FIFA and ME are both EA products. They don't want to cannibalize their own sales, but they can and will release the games the same year in different launch slots. GW and Wizards are two distinctive entities with a varying playerbase that may or may not intersect and their overall launch slots may differ.

You also ignore that buying a car is on a whole different level than buying a box set/rulebooks for two rather accessible hobbies. Nobody buys both a Toyota and a Ford in the same year unless they are really rich car aficionados or for some esoteric reason that affords them that luxury.

Finally I think you overestimate how many books a DnD group needs. A good group could easily go and buy just a single set of the books with maybe a double of PHB. For a group that's not much. Of my current hobbies DnD is probably the least expensive one.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To me they're not related, DnD is not really a thing in Germany I think as we have DSA.

Y'all have a government agency restricting TTRPGs? Oof.

The GW board wouldnt even notice.

GW creative wouldnt even care.

Unless D&D the name of was some kind of potato cam owning leaker GW marketing wouldn't even blink.

 Dysartes wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To me they're not related, DnD is not really a thing in Germany I think as we have DSA.

Y'all have a government agency restricting TTRPGs? Oof.

Free speech isn't allowed in Germany. You know, to protect against fascism...

Following GW release schedule of the last 7-8 years, 10th will most likely come out in summer of 2023 so this post is kind of pointless anyway IMO. Just for the sake of debate, no I don't think it would matter at all. Maybe 5% of the Warhammer players I know have any interest in D&D. If people want both, they will just buy one with this paycheck and the other one next Friday with the next paycheck. I doubt GW or WotC would lose a single sale by releasing both around the same time.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


GW has all but given us the writing on the wall that 10th will be some time in the next 12-24 months.

Have they though?

I know there's been a rumour, but that isn't exactly the same thing, is it?

Either way, to address the main point:

I don't think D&D's release will really affect 40k at all. It's true that a lot of people play both, but the games are of different types, and the settings are radically different. Also, as others have pointed out, D&D is not as much an investment as 40k; at worst, people who have a monthly hobby budget might end up throwing one month's allotment at D&D instead of 40k.

It is, however, a noticeable example of edition churn in both the biggest RPG and the biggest Table-Top Miniature game- a practice which I personally see as the biggest problem facing the industry as a whole. I don't particularly like 5th edition D&D, but despite that fact, I'd rather see them lean into the system they have, expand it and make it work than blow everything up. Given a choice between Darksun for 5th or buying a Player's Handbook AGAIN, Darksun is going to win every time.

PenitentJake wrote:


Have they though?

I know there's been a rumour, but that isn't exactly the same thing, is it?

yeah, idk where that rumor came from but it certainly didnt come from GW's official communication channels.
If anything, i'd expect a "Psychic Awakening" style release before we get into 10th

Not in the slightest. DnD and 40k are two different beasts.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:


Have they though?

I know there's been a rumour, but that isn't exactly the same thing, is it?

yeah, idk where that rumor came from but it certainly didnt come from GW's official communication channels.
If anything, i'd expect a "Psychic Awakening" style release before we get into 10th

Last year(?) they said something vague about the next edition being thought of, but still some ways off. No dates were stated. People assumed it was probably 2023 (or later) as they still had about 1/2 an editions worth of Codices to go. And then we learned that World Eaters & Votaan were also coming....


As for 40k 10e & D&D6e arriving in the same year? It won't affect anything.

*Any D&D players concerned with the release of a new edition have always known it was arriving in 2024. I mean, short of WWIII or another global pandemic sending things off the rails in '24, do you really think WoTC wouldn't capitalize on the games 50th anniversary by dropping a new edition? If the cost is of concern to any of these people? Well, you can see it coming. It's not a secret. So start saving $10/month now....

Different products, not really comparable.

All right, I bite on the weird joke thread:
No. Irrelevant to GW.

Even beyond the audience, the market, the sales model ($thousands in minis vs a couple books or as WotC seems to want, an online sub to D&D Beyond), we're talking about another token playtest followed by 5.5 edition that's 'backwards compatible'

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1310-faq-one-d-d-rules-d-d-digital-and-physical-digital

Short version is its cleaning up a crapload of errata, and fixing the power level of various classes and then trying to pretend it will be a 'living rulebook' if you subscribe to their online app. (though there will be another 3 core rulebooks in 2024).

If one player's handbook and maybe a DMG and Monster manual for the DM somehow equal a Warhammer army, rulebook, codex, glue, paints, etc, you're playing one game (or both) completely wrong

Does a new D&D release even matter all that much? AFAIK most D&D players already have established campaigns and while the release of a new version may get some people to upgrade it's not going to kick off a frenzy of people buying new books and committing to tons of new games ASAP. GW should probably avoid having a major release on the same weekend as the new D&D book but avoiding the entire year would be an absurd level of loss aversion.

(And I'm with PenitentJake on how much edition churn sucks. 5E is already a very solid game that needs, at most, some minor adjustments and balance fixes. Making a whole new edition is stupid and shortsighted greed, nothing more. And we all know GW has a problem with shoveling out garbage as fast as possible to milk the cash cow of book sales.)

Aecus Decimus wrote:
Does a new D&D release even matter all that much? AFAIK most D&D players already have established campaigns and while the release of a new version may get some people to upgrade it's not going to kick off a frenzy of people buying new books and committing to tons of new games ASAP.

Committing to new games? No. But new D&D editions _do_ kick off a frenzy of new book buying. Regardless of the state of current campaigns (and a large chunk of D&D interested people don't necessarily have an 'established campaign'). Honestly a lot of people buy just so they can skim the book and complain about all the things that are 'wrong' compared to <insert favorite edition here>.

But we're talking maybe $150 IF you buy all 3 core books*, and Amazon discounts D&D books heavily for release (around 40% off), so maybe 90. For someone who just plays and doesn't DM, odds are they're going to spend about $30-35.

*assuming they do three core books this time. The DMG has been a useless vestige for quite a while now, published because they've 'always had one' (other than the editions that didn't), rather than containing useful information

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Different products, not really comparable.

Sure they are. All that's really involved is a question of how many books you might be buying all at once/in short order depending upon when they drop.

Some of us D&D players will be buying 3 books (PHB/DMG/MM). Others just 1 (PHB)
We 40k players will be buying 1 (the main rulebook) straight away. And maybe, depending upon what army you play, a Codex as well.
So between 2 - 5 books.

ccs wrote:
Sure they are. All that's really involved is a question of how many books you might be buying all at once/in short order depending upon when they drop.

Some of us D&D players will be buying 3 books (PHB/DMG/MM). Others just 1 (PHB)
We 40k players will be buying 1 (the main rulebook) straight away. And maybe, depending upon what army you play, a Codex as well.
So between 2 - 5 books.

Except all you need to play DnD is those books. For 40k you kind of need the models, seeing as it is a TTWG. With new DnD players, they might buy some books but due to the group nature of the game they also might never buy a rulebook at all, I know I haven't.
40k players, however, absolutely are buying models, possibly even before they buy the books to use those models seeing as instructions come with basic rules nowadays.

Removed - rule #1 please.

Releasing in the same year is irrelevant. If released in the same month, that can have a minor impact. And by minor impact, I'm thinking somewhere in the four digit range, maybe five if really pushing it. Negligible to million dollar companies, anyway.

People who play both games may simply have to decide which one they spend their hobby money on that month, or save up ahead of time to buy both.

(A)D&D: 6 editions released in ~50 years, while the core gameplay has remained pretty much unchanged with many books/modules from earlier editions easily compatible/converted to use in later editions.

40k: 10 editions released in ~36 years, with at least three of those editions being complete resets of the rules and the prior books often being unusable in later editions (let alone books in the current edition being invalidated or replaced by new versions/seasons).

Something is not right here.

One is the cash cow of a relatively small UK-based company and the other belongs to Hasbro. Not really a big shock that one gets more stuff put out than the other.

 Gnarlly wrote:
(A)D&D: 6 editions released in ~50 years, while the core gameplay has remained pretty much unchanged with many books/modules from earlier editions easily compatible/converted to use in later editions.

40k: 10 editions released in ~36 years, with at least three of those editions being complete resets of the rules and the prior books often being unusable in later editions (let alone books in the current edition being invalidated or replaced by new versions/seasons).

Something is not right here.

Yeah GW cant write rules/ write them to sell stuff

Also in terms of resets we have, 2nd was a rewrite of RT, 3rd was a rewrite of 2nd. 3rd ed style rules lasted all the way through 7th with things added on and tweaked, 8th and 9th, and rumored 10th reset.
Then also HH 2.0 basically being 7.5

Did i miss anything in that?

As some have suggested, D&D is one of those games where the new rulebook coming out can be largely irrelevant. I'm in 3 different D&D groups and we're in established campaigns in all 3, so we don't plan on changing any time soon.

Lots of people still play Pathfinder over 5e D&D anyway just out of their own convenience.

I don't think it will have a lot of impact on GW, outside of potentially displaying that they need to fix their app and go (largely) paperless.

 Gert wrote:
One is the cash cow of a relatively small UK-based company and the other belongs to Hasbro. Not really a big shock that one gets more stuff put out than the other.

I'm honestly not sure where you're going with that statement.

Hasbro gives very few craps about D&D, to the point that it often didn't even show up in the company's yearly reports. Despite D&D's general name recognition, they bought WotC for Magic, and merely tolerate D&D as long as it doesn't lose money. Wizards execs have tried and failed to make D&D a big money maker (Hasbro has a tier system for properties, Magic is on par with Monopoly, and D&D falls under 'other games'), and honestly the D&D rules development team is probably smaller than GW's at this point (though they use a lot of freelancers for art). Of the very small number of rulebooks they put out for 5th edition (seriously, compare it to 3rd or TSR during 2nd, or even what they planned for 4th before they gave up on that ediition), a good 20% are produced by people outside the company.

Seriously, the exactly _one_ Forgotten Realms sourcebook (Sword Coast Adventures) produced for 5th edition was a joint project mostly done by Green Ronin, a competitor. Compare that to the _hundreds_ of FR sourcebooks produced for second and third editions.
If you add various adventure module hardbacks, you get to maybe... 10? That's wildly conservative for an edition that's 8 years old, and a game that used to produce 50+ books a year, not 50 over the editions 8 year life span (50 including character sheets, multiple gift sets of the same books, DM screen and multiple starter sets, one of which doesn't come out until October, despite the announcement of a new edition). The lack of push on D&D products, despite pop-culture tie-ins like Stranger Things (and a movie!) is honestly baffling.

Its a nostalgia product where the owners are content to sit on it and figure the nostalgia won't make them money.