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 Overread wrote:
Also a lot of the "strange connection points" isn't anything to do with trying to stop 3rd party parts; its more about GW shifting from very static poses to very dynamic poses whilst still working with injection moulded plastic casting. That requires them to shift things around to get the parts to work because of undercuts and such.


Also I've noticed they've improved at hiding join lines on models. It's not perfect, but there are a good few models now where the join lines are invisible once the model is put together.

It's because GW is sculpting digitally so they can do those more complex cuts. It's not like when they had a master model that they had to physically cut into the make the parts for casting from where you can't just cut a super creative line here and there.
Heck I wish the 3D printing market would take a leaf from GW and treat part cutting more seriously

It's also a nice time saver when building when Joint-A to Arm-A is keyed with a triangle shape and Joint-B to Arm-B is keyed with a diamond shape. (And if I want to ignore that, it takes all of 2 seconds to trim off the raised key bit.)

The Black Adder wrote:


Now that GW have so many digital assets there's not really any need to make the models bigger again. The skitarii were released in 2015 and I've not seen any change since then. Heck the guardian models that have recently been replaced appear to be a dead match for the old set and that box must be 20 years old.

Of course there's no NEED to make things bigger. The fact that GW has the technology to make everything scaled properly yet CHOOSES to upsize 30k Marines and Karskins is the surest evidence I can see that the upscaling is deliberate and will continue.

You've apparently been in the game as long as I have so I'd think that would be obvious. Scale creep is as inevitable as faster-than-inflation price raises and anyone gettinginto GW games should accept that from the start.

It's slow and steady and it probably won't even be too noticable for the first decade, but one day you look up and realize your figures are short and your wallet is light.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

. . .
Even then….that doesn’t stop 3rd Party folk designing and selling alternative parts. It might reduce demand sure. But either way, GW still get their sale, and that’s all they ultimately need to worry about. GW don’t sell Bitz, so folk going elsewhere doesn’t impact them.

Yeah I dunno about GW still getting their sale. Seems like the 3rd party full-model replacements are getting better and more accessible, and I think that's going to continue trending upward.

It seems like you guys are forgetting that two reasons for a model to be a desired size is A) that details need to be big enough to be seen and painted while B) there is still limits to detail resolution per size IE getting that detail resolution in Beast Snagga Ork fur might not be possible at say 15mm scale.

So when customers and designers want both more detail AND better proportions the only choice you have is to make newer models bigger.

That said the pics show normal Cadians are the same height as the old ones. Kasrkin being bigger is so that they stand apart from the rest, that’s all.

TreeStewges wrote:
It seems like you guys are forgetting that two reasons for a model to be a desired size is A) that details need to be big enough to be seen and painted while B) there is still limits to detail resolution per size IE getting that detail resolution in Beast Snagga Ork fur might not be possible at say 15mm scale.

So when customers and designers want both more detail AND better proportions the only choice you have is to make newer models bigger.

That said the pics show normal Cadians are the same height as the old ones. Kasrkin being bigger is so that they stand apart from the rest, that’s all.

That might be partly true, but I don't buy it as the main reasoning behind scale creep. I'm still not sure what size the new cadian troopers are, but there's nothing about them in terms of detail that couldn't be done at 28mm as well as the 32mm that the Karskin's are.

Besides, what is the point of cramming more detail onto a 28mm line troop in a game where you'll probably have 50-100 figures? Scale creep is a marketing tool.

TreeStewges wrote:
It seems like you guys are forgetting that two reasons for a model to be a desired size is A) that details need to be big enough to be seen and painted while B) there is still limits to detail resolution per size IE getting that detail resolution in Beast Snagga Ork fur might not be possible at say 15mm scale.

I kinda don't buy it. Especially when you look at the detail on Infinity models or some of the FW Krieg models. At 15mm you've got a decent argument, but going from 25mm to 28mm or whatever it is . . . Naahhh.

Glances sidelong at Joytoy figures...

I can see that.

i'm really not interested in these new sculpts. Guard should be uniform, and these don't look uniform with the rest of my army. I'd have been more open to new catachans than different Cadians

I'm going to go with the theory that the designing team is getting older and, like me, they're having a harder time painting the details. So, they increased the size of the models to make it easier to see/paint them.

Until GW decides to make a ruling that old models are no longer permitted, you will have people fielding old Stormtroopers which are notably smaller than the newer Kasrkin models...

I knew there was something a bit odd about GW figures proportions during the 1990s, but couldn't nail it down until the LotR line came out.

Heads and hands. They were too big. The hands were really too big.

The LotR figures, on the other hand, were perfectly proportioned. It was weird to put them side by side with Fantasy figures. They just looked so much better.

This in turn forced me to make a decision: WHFB or LotR?

Given the price and quality differential, LotR won out. I had a pretty big orc army but sold it all off and replaced them with LotR versions. Same with the High Elves.

In fact, as much of my Fantasy armies that could be replaced with LotR models has been. They just look so much better because the proportions are correct.

Also, when initially sold, they were markedly cheaper. Win-win, as the cool kids say.

In terms of 40k, I go with the older models on the secondary market. My Imperial Guard is now almost entirely WW II historicals. Honestly, that was what inspired GW to begin with, so I just cut out the middle man. The boxed set 2nd. orcs are both cheap and easy to modify, so why go for the bigger, more expensive, later ones?

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I knew there was something a bit odd about GW figures proportions during the 1990s, but couldn't nail it down until the LotR line came out.

Heads and hands. They were too big. The hands were really too big.

The LotR figures, on the other hand, were perfectly proportioned. It was weird to put them side by side with Fantasy figures. They just looked so much better.

In terms of 40k, I go with the older models on the secondary market. My Imperial Guard is now almost entirely WW II historicals. Honestly, that was what inspired GW to begin with, so I just cut out the middle man. The boxed set 2nd. orcs are both cheap and easy to modify, so why go for the bigger, more expensive, later ones?

I was jealous of the LOTR models when they first came out. I feel like GW was taking their Fantasy range into a more mature direction with 6th. There were people in the company with historical backgrounds keeping things somewhat grounded. 40K and Fantasy were at their peak. But it was all abandoned by 7th/8th ed.

They've always had this problem but it keeps getting worse; 40K art looks like a Death Metal album cover, but the models are straight out of a Disney cartoon.

Goose LeChance wrote:


They've always had this problem but it keeps getting worse; 40K art looks like a Death Metal album cover, but the models are straight out of a Disney cartoon.

You have that the wrong way around. Modern 40k art is awful for the most part (Lewis Jones seeming to be the sole exception to this), with it just being 1:1 clones of the actual models and super bright and colourful. 40k minis (ignore the paintjobs the studio gives them) are anything but like something out of a Disney cartoon for the most part.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:


They've always had this problem but it keeps getting worse; 40K art looks like a Death Metal album cover, but the models are straight out of a Disney cartoon.

You have that the wrong way around. Modern 40k art is awful for the most part, with it just being 1:1 clones of the actual models and super bright and colourful. 40k minis (ignore the paintjobs the studio gives them) are anything but like something out of a Disney cartoon for the most part.

If you say the modern art sucks I believe you, I wouldn't know. It used to be amazing.

As for the models.. it's worse than ever. Oversized weapons, clown shoes, giant hands. We got Flintstone Orks, the new Chaos cultists and possessed are straight from Disney. DKoK look like 300lb linebackers. I was ready to go all in on Chaos but no.

Goose LeChance wrote:

If you say the modern art sucks I believe you, I wouldn't know. It used to be amazing.

As for the models.. it's worse than ever. Oversized weapons, clown shoes, giant hands. We got Flintstone Orks, the new Chaos cultists and possessed are straight from Disney. I was ready to go all in on Chaos but no.

All of the 40k sculpts are very busy now, cluttered with junk. The vast majority of my Chaos marines are surplus 2nd ed peppered with subsequent editions.

Honestly, take a 2nd/3rd ed marine and add some spikes to him and PRESTO! Chaos marine.

I didn't mind people modding the figures, because that was an individual conversion, but GW really has tried to crush any kind of kit-bashing out of the hobby by selling the pre-fab kind.

I don't think GW set out to "crush" kitbashing and 3rd parties. I think it simply happened because high detail high dynamic models became something they were increasingly able to make with injection moulded plastic as they took over more of the production process (they own the mould making firm) and got more and more high skilled, experienced staff in key roles.

Eg the way they do cuts now means that they can do some insane poses in plastic that would otherwise require way more parts to achieve or be nearly impossible.

And the dynamic stuff sells.




And honestly looks way more interesting than 40 identical grots holding a gun whilst standing at attention which is what we had in plastic, honestly not all that long ago.

Heck even the very modular sets were often basically the same pose with slightly different arm angles and not much more.



In the end high dynamic poses tend to breed out lots of optional parts simply as a function of design rather than I think GW wanting to remove custom parts and such.

 Overread wrote:
I don't think GW set out to "crush" kitbashing and 3rd parties. I think it simply happened because high detail high dynamic models became something they were increasingly able to make with injection moulded plastic as they took over more of the production process (they own the mould making firm) and got more and more high skilled, experienced staff in key roles.

Clearly they realized that offering modeling advice and tools was less lucrative than just selling the accessories. I recall that they showed how to make a castle out of cereal boxes and then sold a plastic one, which people loved.

To be clear, I don't think that was the execution of a sinister plan, more a fortuitous circumstance.

However, I do think the scale creep is part of the planned obsolescence that goes with each new edition. Yes, the new kits are more dynamic, but the older figures simply look out of place next to the new ones.

Apple fox wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:
They're answering the fan demand for 54mm Inquisitor minis.... just very slowly and iteratively.

Bigger minis, smaller table space :9 at some point where going to be placing models on a big playmat and playing a game with no movement or terrain. Won’t be the space.



I always disliked the big GW scale, and I don’t like this. I even wonder if they are doing it as a way to force out some of the completion that has Minis usable by 40k players.

Agreed. I loathe especially the decision in HH 2.0 to make infantry really fast. Without fear of deadly artillery your grunts can run relatively unharmed over no man´s land.