Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After seeing the new rules for custodes in the Liber Imperium book i have mixed feelings about the new rules. But i am new to HH so i try to stay open minded. I was looking forward to this book, because i don't like the way custodes play and feel in 40k right now.

but looking at the new rules i wonder, custodes inv. are worse now, an avg. of minus 1 i would say. but they gaind +2 attacks on the guardians which now have more attacks then the Aquilon terminators which doesn't make sense IMO.

what do you think about the new rules?

The AP2 arms race continues.

They just suck hard, no flavor at all.
One! bad Warlordtrait, no Advanced Reaction, no Armytrait.... no love.
Even the Sisters got more Warlordtraits!

Hell they don't even have a 3++ for their regular HQs or a 4++ for the Haeteron Guard.
I don't care if they are that good or not, it feels just wrong, they are supposed to have the best gear available and look at their poor excuse of a shield for example... .
Kata for the Haeteron Guard (Hallo 40k!) just hilarious, if you look at the Smurfguard it even gets funnier.. .

Must be pure fun to run 1 Tribun and 50 Speerguys at 3k points, NOT!

They look very very powerful. I don't think they really need a ton of invulnerable saves with the stats they're rolling about with. True the flavour seems a tad lacking which is a shame but maybe there's more to that than meets the eye.

So how is everyone seeing their rules? Have we had a leaked codex and if so can I have a link? I'll likley give them a spin since I already have a largeish force.

cody.d. wrote:
So how is everyone seeing their rules? Have we had a leaked codex and if so can I have a link? I'll likley give them a spin since I already have a largeish force.

Multiple sites have full reviews up - here is Sprues & Brews.

cody.d. wrote:
So how is everyone seeing their rules? Have we had a leaked codex and if so can I have a link? I'll likley give them a spin since I already have a largeish force.

This review si pretty good. i made screenshots of all the custodes stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AkzdSbOADM

Yeah seems like Custodes will do okay, you'll want a few of the vehicle options to give access to proper heavy weapons. I'm unsure how I feel about the dreads though.

Errgghh.....did they really have to give them +1 Bulky compared to 1.0? Grumble, grumble, grumble.......

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Errgghh.....did they really have to give them +1 Bulky compared to 1.0? Grumble, grumble, grumble.......

You can still put a squad of 6 in the smallest transport. Honestly it feels kinda pointless to give them bulky at all. Like they did it just for fluff. Unless there is or is going to be some sort of rule or spell that negatively affects a unit based on how bulky it is. So weak against marines, stronger against terminators, brutal against custodes.

So in general, due to skirmish custodes will have a 4+ cover save in a ruin right? Makes em a bit tanky when hugging cover I guess.

Bulky makes them not as easily out numbered by the Night Lords if each model equals 3.

cody.d. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Errgghh.....did they really have to give them +1 Bulky compared to 1.0? Grumble, grumble, grumble.......

You can still put a squad of 6 in the smallest transport. Honestly it feels kinda pointless to give them bulky at all. Like they did it just for fluff. Unless there is or is going to be some sort of rule or spell that negatively affects a unit based on how bulky it is. So weak against marines, stronger against terminators, brutal against custodes.

So in general, due to skirmish custodes will have a 4+ cover save in a ruin right? Makes em a bit tanky when hugging cover I guess.

Nah, I think they did it because:

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:Bulky makes them not as easily out numbered by the Night Lords if each model equals 3.

And that's why it bugs me. Got it in one, VictorVonTzeentch.

You are just annoyed that your spooky bois are not spooky enough

Granted it is a bit on the nose in regards to not allowing them to be easily outnumbered against other melee units....

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Errgghh.....did they really have to give them +1 Bulky compared to 1.0? Grumble, grumble, grumble.......

You can still put a squad of 6 in the smallest transport. Honestly it feels kinda pointless to give them bulky at all. Like they did it just for fluff. Unless there is or is going to be some sort of rule or spell that negatively affects a unit based on how bulky it is. So weak against marines, stronger against terminators, brutal against custodes.

So in general, due to skirmish custodes will have a 4+ cover save in a ruin right? Makes em a bit tanky when hugging cover I guess.

Nah, I think they did it because:

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:Bulky makes them not as easily out numbered by the Night Lords if each model equals 3.

And that's why it bugs me. Got it in one, VictorVonTzeentch.

They're my spooky boys too, I noticed it right off

The bulky isnt as annoying as an entire subsect of the Solar Auxilia having stubborn though.

Not Online!!! wrote:You are just annoyed that your spooky bois are not spooky enough

Granted it is a bit on the nose in regards to not allowing them to be easily outnumbered against other melee units....

Eh, no. I'm 100% fine with the "spooky" stuff not working on them. They're Custodes, they shouldn't be scared of Marines, even the "Scary Marines". They should be incredibly hard to break in that regard. I'm just annoyed that my gutter punks can't effectively break the fancy boys with dirty gangland tactics. Remember, it isn't just how many that you need to get the outnumbered to kick off, it's how many you need to still have enough left standing to get it after all of those I5 attacks have gotten done shredding them. You need to start with (Y) so that you still have (X) left over after the Custodes are done.

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Errgghh.....did they really have to give them +1 Bulky compared to 1.0? Grumble, grumble, grumble.......

You can still put a squad of 6 in the smallest transport. Honestly it feels kinda pointless to give them bulky at all. Like they did it just for fluff. Unless there is or is going to be some sort of rule or spell that negatively affects a unit based on how bulky it is. So weak against marines, stronger against terminators, brutal against custodes.

So in general, due to skirmish custodes will have a 4+ cover save in a ruin right? Makes em a bit tanky when hugging cover I guess.

Nah, I think they did it because:

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:Bulky makes them not as easily out numbered by the Night Lords if each model equals 3.

And that's why it bugs me. Got it in one, VictorVonTzeentch.

They're my spooky boys too, I noticed it right off

The bulky isnt as annoying as an entire subsect of the Solar Auxilia having stubborn though.

To each their own. I was really looking forward to having my packs of Wild Dogs tear down some Lions. But I guess that isn't happening.

Their rules are rather wildly overtuned.

In 1st they relied on the achillus, agamatus, tribune and haetarons to effectively break the game back in 2017. These units mounted ap2 in high numbers at either full initiative, or were durable enough to unleash it at initiative 1. The bikes and achillus also provided enough lascannons and adrathic to force people into melee. Those options got nerfed overtime to not make it as economical, and toned down some of the interactions (like the achillus having fewer attacks and only the one that rolled a 6 to hit becoming destroyer, or the praesidum shield not applying -1 to hit in combat). I know my 3000 point list jacked up almost 700 between inferno and malevolence. But the reason those melee units were used so much was because the Guardian had to charge and win against other elite units, or it would get killed; you needed that ap2.

What did they do to the guardian in 2nd? They doubled the amount of attacks (2 to 4). They benefit from the new WS mechanics, meaning they're often getting hit on 5s. They move 8" with all the benefits that gives (run 13", charge at +1). Against units with elite stats/are big, they get +1 attack, +1 to charge, and are capped at hitting on 4s. They have meta bombs built in. And their spears are always +1 str ap2 (and they have reaping blow). Theyre the same amount of points as they were in Inferno.

So guardian moves ~50% faster, charges more easily, is harder to hit, and has about 100% more output in combat. For the same price. They can win a combat against almost any legion unit of equivalent points, receiving the charge. Doing the charging removes any doubt. The contemptors, leviathan, and primarchs are the only units that come out on top of the guardian. The basic troops choice.

But on top of that, all the old anti-custodes ranged weapons took massive nerfs on the edition switch. Plasma now needs 4s to break their armour; medusas can't instant kill them and need 6s to pierce armour; vindicators lost blast radius (realistically only hitting 1 due to skirmishers) and need 6s to pierce armour; the Typhon lost blast radius and needs 4s to pierce armour; the morbus needs 6s to pierce armour. And not just stat nerfs, but also points increases for all the barrage tanks. The mighty las heavy support squad is still effective against them, but even a full 10 man averages 4.5 failed wounds, or 2ish dead, and that's just into their 6+ invul; they still get to use the old cover values because of skirmishers.

So ya, the guardian is pretty much the ultimate infantry model. Unfortunately, it's the core troop choice, so people just making a generic custodes army have a good chance of overpowering their friends' lists, compared to 1st when you needed to deliberately buy the best resin units and convert the plastics.

^^^^Excellent write up Skimask Mohawk. A lot of their stuff definitely feels undercosted for what they are. Guardians seem ridiculous at 45 PPM, and I have no idea how they can justify the Palus being the same price as a Land Speeder Proteus. But the proof will be in the playing, and it looks like it'll be a while before that happens in our hemisphere. Some actual in game reports from our European members would be nice.......

I know a lot of people don't like epubs, but you can get that if you're itching to play with them before the...whenever physical release.

It's not listed on gamesworkshop.com, but if you go to warhammerdigital.com it's front and centre.

Played a game of custodes against world eaters. The Custodes can hold their own and even win against either a dread or Leviathan and chop their way through even a large unit of despoilers. But Agron will utterly wipe the floor with them in moments.

It does feel like Custodes have a weak ish ranged game. Decent anti tank but would want allies to try and shoot down a dread.

Maybe a unit of Saggitari could take them to a low wound count, but that's a one time thing.

cody.d. wrote:
Played a game of custodes against world eaters. The Custodes can hold their own and even win against either a dread or Leviathan and chop their way through even a large unit of despoilers. But Agron will utterly wipe the floor with them in moments.

It does feel like Custodes have a weak ish ranged game. Decent anti tank but would want allies to try and shoot down a dread.

Maybe a unit of Saggitari could take them to a low wound count, but that's a one time thing.

There's very few units where an equivalent amount of points of spear guardians won't beat over time, and almost nothing that the full 10 can't handle. But angron is one of those. Even the guardians charging him before any nails ticks will see them get killed on round 2. Primarchs are pretty much the one element of a marine list that can handle them in melee.

Unfortunately, their melee is still so good that you don't really need to incorporate shooting elements into the list. Traditional vehicles get melta bombed, and 10 guardians can one-round a contemptor. Better to load up on guardians and run them 13" into melee as fast as possible.