BattleTech 'Mercenaries' Kickstarter - Playtest Portal for New Core Rulebook

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**Vulcan**

Kagetora wrote:
Bob Lorgar wrote:
except for the fact that there were some mechs which were highly disadvantaged because they were practically walking bombs asking to be killed by one.

Thunderbolt?

Pretty sure it had a ton of MG ammo in the CT. IIRC.

Under normal rules a ton of MG ammo in the ARM will still gut the whole 'mech. Even an Atlas (17 arm internals, 21 side torso internals, 31 center torso internals, and the MG ammo has only done about 1/3 it's total damage...).

While I'm in general fine with ammo explosion rules as-is - ammo explosions are the great equalizer - having even a HALF ton of small arms ammo being able to gut any 'mech seems excessive.

**Ghaz**

From the Playtest Forum

Xotl wrote:We talk about the logic behind both in the livestream. But in brief:

Cutting side tables saves room and lookup time: unambiguously good. Cutting side tables further rewards attackers who have the skill and/or speed to hone in on weak enemy side torsos, or defenders who have the skill and/or speed to keep a damaged side torso shielded from enemy fire. In theory: good. In practice: might make mechs too easy to delete, especially those with XL and XXL engines. Broadly, we think it offers better tactical gameplay while simplifying things. We’ll see.

The ammo explosion change is about trying to make a rule that makes for interesting gameplay while pleasing both people who want ammo explosions to hurt a lot and people who want it to hurt less than it does now. There is no objective correct answer here: it’s a pure vibes approach to a purely vibes gameplay issue. If people like the result, we’ll change it. If they don’t, we’ll axe it. It will be hard to make a pure gameplay argument for this, though perhaps something comes up that makes the rule unusable at the table that we missed in our discussion and limited private playtest phases.

You’ll notice there was nothing about realism in there. That’s because frankly we’re designing a game 1st, and a reality simulator for thirty-first-century millennium giant robots somewhere around 34th.

Looking forward to your playtest reports.

**BrookM**

I've seen interesting discourse so far on these two proposed changes, will be using them in our upcoming campaign.

**Kagetora**

Vulcan wrote:
Kagetora wrote:
Bob Lorgar wrote:
except for the fact that there were some mechs which were highly disadvantaged because they were practically walking bombs asking to be killed by one.

Thunderbolt?

Pretty sure it had a ton of MG ammo in the CT. IIRC.

Under normal rules a ton of MG ammo in the ARM will still gut the whole 'mech. Even an Atlas (17 arm internals, 21 side torso internals, 31 center torso internals, and the MG ammo has only done about 1/3 it's total damage...).

While I'm in general fine with ammo explosion rules as-is - ammo explosions are the great equalizer - having even a HALF ton of small arms ammo being able to gut any 'mech seems excessive.

Yeah, but the point was you could hit the TBolt in the CT with a single leftover LRM missile in a grouping and get a CT Crit, kaboom.

Did it happen? Once or twice in my BT gaming experience (although not with just that LRM hit). Was it hilarious? Yes. Was it stupid? Also yes.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Back in the 'good old days' the risk of ammo explosion was one of the downsides of ballistic weapons which generated less heat than energy weapons

managing ammo and explosions vs managing heat and weapon weight

but energy weapons suffer far less of a heat penalty now with more efficient double/clan heat sinks etc so i guess removing at least some of that penelty from ballistics is probably warrented

(although i personally found the original version of both made for a more interesting game)

**Albertorius**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Back in the 'good old days' the risk of ammo explosion was one of the downsides of ballistic weapons which generated less heat than energy weapons

managing ammo and explosions vs managing heat and weapon weight

but energy weapons suffer far less of a heat penalty now with more efficient double/clan heat sinks etc so i guess removing at least some of that penelty from ballistics is probably warrented

(although i personally found the original version of both made for a more interesting game)

Agreed, except maybe for the medium laser, which is still stupidly good at every era.

**Kagetora**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Back in the 'good old days' the risk of ammo explosion was one of the downsides of ballistic weapons which generated less heat than energy weapons

managing ammo and explosions vs managing heat and weapon weight

but energy weapons suffer far less of a heat penalty now with more efficient double/clan heat sinks etc so i guess removing at least some of that penelty from ballistics is probably warrented

(although i personally found the original version of both made for a more interesting game)

It wasn't just heat vs weight. "Back in the day," you had to balance four things. Survivability, lethality, speed, and heat. You could be fantastic at one. Good at two, mediocre at three, gak at all of them. Armor, Damage, Speed, Heat. That was the entire POINT of BT, when it started.

Then the creators added IS tech, with a few "improved" weapons, but more importantly, DHS and XL engines. Those last two things literally ruined BT as everyone knew it up until that point. Suddenly, heat meant nothing, and I could move faster...giving my opponent MUCH more difficult "to hit" numbers, while retaining lethality and survivability.

In come the Clans. Again, every balancing point gets tossed out. Now everything, across the board, is better.

Is this WRONG? Well...no. It depends on which game you want to play. Fast and deadly? Play with the later rules, after the Grey Death Legion finds the SLC, or even later after the Clan invasion. Or, repetitively, even later than that. Slower, more methodical? Play during or just before 3025. Actually have to make meaningful decisions between the four variables above, as opposed to just min/maxing the fastest way to obliterate a foe.

I'm old. I know which one I prefer, but I'm not going to fault anyone for a different choice, as long as mine is still valid and supported. And it always will be, as I own the rulebooks.

**cole1114**

Clans getting case everywhere is a big boost for them in particular, a timber wolf N will take a max of 10 damage if its CT machine gun ammo goes off. Blood Asp primes can get both of their gauss rifles popped without losing either side torso and still have their arm weapons and CT srm firing.

**Vulcan**

Kagetora wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Kagetora wrote:
Bob Lorgar wrote:
except for the fact that there were some mechs which were highly disadvantaged because they were practically walking bombs asking to be killed by one.

Thunderbolt?

Pretty sure it had a ton of MG ammo in the CT. IIRC.

Under normal rules a ton of MG ammo in the ARM will still gut the whole 'mech. Even an Atlas (17 arm internals, 21 side torso internals, 31 center torso internals, and the MG ammo has only done about 1/3 it's total damage...).

While I'm in general fine with ammo explosion rules as-is - ammo explosions are the great equalizer - having even a HALF ton of small arms ammo being able to gut any 'mech seems excessive.

Yeah, but the point was you could hit the TBolt in the CT with a single leftover LRM missile in a grouping and get a CT Crit, kaboom. Did it happen? Once or twice in my BT gaming experience (although not with just that LRM hit). Was it hilarious? Yes. Was it stupid? Also yes.

Or that same leftover LRM can get a CT crit, roll three crits, and take out your engine. Or two and take out your gyro. Or if you use floating crits, Head crit and hit the cockpit. Or a single Gauss, AC/20, or Clan ER-PPC can just take the head off entirely.

If this is a problem for you, then perhaps BattleTech is not the game you want.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albertorius wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Back in the 'good old days' the risk of ammo explosion was one of the downsides of ballistic weapons which generated less heat than energy weapons

managing ammo and explosions vs managing heat and weapon weight

but energy weapons suffer far less of a heat penalty now with more efficient double/clan heat sinks etc so i guess removing at least some of that penelty from ballistics is probably warrented

(although i personally found the original version of both made for a more interesting game)

Agreed, except maybe for the medium laser, which is still stupidly good at every era.

The Medium Laser is good... but short ranged. If you depend overmuch on ML, you're vulnerable to being shot to pieces from something with a longer-ranged weapon and never being able to meaningfully respond.

**Kagetora**

Vulcan wrote:

Or that same leftover LRM can get a CT crit, roll three crits, and take out your engine. Or two and take out your gyro. Or if you use floating crits, Head crit and hit the cockpit. Or a single Gauss, AC/20, or Clan ER-PPC can just take the head off entirely.

If this is a problem for you, then perhaps BattleTech is not the game you want.

I forget at what point in my post I said it was a problem and didn't want to play BT. Maybe you can point it out?

What I said was, is it hilarious? Yes. Because it is. Is it stupid? Also yes, because it is. Mostly the design decision to put ammo in the CT. And I'm well aware of the innumerable ways to one-shot any mech on the board. I haven't played in a long time, yet I still own all of my Axemen minis.

**Ghaz**

From the BattleTech Forums

Lorcan Nagle wrote:
Episode 62
16th September 2025
Guests: Chris from Liya

News
-BattleTech
--Releases
---Out Now
----Shrapnel 22
----Strength of the Pack part 4
----First Strike (BattleCorps Anthology 2) reissue
----Scream (free fiction)
---September
----Third Star League Battle Group
----Battlefield Support: Emplacements
---October
----Gothic
----Gothic Salvage Box
----TRO: 3025 commemorative Edition
----Shrapnel Gothic special
----Outfoxed
----Never Enough
----21st Centauri Lancers Forcepack
---November
----C-Scale Gothic Atlas
----Force Manual Mercenaries
----Aces Scouring Sands
---December
----House kurita Ranger Lance
----House Kurita Command Lance

Discussion
-They brought up QC issues. Chris mentioned a reviewer got a copy of Gothic that had multiple issues so he had a number of copies sent to him to check and he found a small number of issues
As a result of that review, they’re adding some additional issues to the QC check list, notably the softness of the plastic.
Linda, the owner of Liya was really hyped the first time she saw the Liya logo on a BattleTech product box, Chris noted that you’ll see people with Liya logos on their clothes in the videos on their YouTube and it’s a lot of the same faces in them, they have a high staff retention rate.
-Older boxes will have quality improvements in the future
-Chris talked about project delays: He noted lack of money, approval chains, and their production capacity. They reserve production slots for repeat customers, ask them if they have anything planned for a specific quarter before offering them to new customers. They passed on producing Leviathans due to capacity issues.
-Notable clients include Brotherwise games (Brandon Sanderson license), Flying Frog Productions, Wētā, Cryptozoic, Asmodee, Monster Fight Club, Beetle and Brim and Gale Force Nine among many others.
-They don’t fish for new business, they prefer to gain new clients through word of mouth
-Chris is based in the US, he manages projects and liaises with other factories while Linda manages the factory. All US staff work remotely.
He says he goes to sleep around 3AM and gets up between 8 and 9 and that’s usually enough for him.
-Chris takes offense when people derisively talk about Chinese labour around Liya. The staff are paid well, are happy and have a high retention rate. People can listen to music, they have air conditioning and they’re fed well. Someone mentioned a bowl that looks like a dog bowl in a video, that was brought in by the person and they fill them up with rice and other food. It’s more a case of people applying Western standards to a culture they don’t necessarily understand. There’s labour regulations in place and Liya follows them. Chris mentioned there’s a lot of skilled labour on-site like the tooling department and the hand-painting teams. There might be slave labour or child labour in some factories, but not at Liya.
-Chris didn’t get to see a complete Gothic box at Gencon, and he talked about how you should always see things for yourself to make a final opinion. One of his best friends is an old-school BattleTech fan and was negative on Gothic until he opened the box, saw how much stuff there was in there and the quality of the minis.
-As well as Aces and Gothic, there are two product restocks on the way: One in November, one before Chinese New Year
--Mercs box set (regular edition)
--Map Pack Alien Worlds
--Map Pack Deserts
--Proliferation Cycle
--Somerset Strikers
--Map-scale Dropships
--Clan Invasion forcepacks (7.500+ of each pack)
--Salvage boxes (10-15,000 of each display box)
--Star League Forcepacks
--C-Scale Mad Cats (in new retail-friendly package)
-In tooling:
--More Pre-painted minis
--A board game
--Abominations forcepack
--Illician Lancers Command Lance

Q&A
-Did Liya manufacture the C-scale Mad Cat at their own expense? Yes, Liya were late on some elements of the first Kickstarter and weren’t happy with some of what they provided. Chris suggested doing the Mad Cat as a thank you, they spent 20K on the tooling and made one to give to Loren as a thank you. They said they’d destroy the tooling if he didn’t like it, but he said “I want more”, and CGL paid for the production.
-There’s a lot of wasted space in the forcepacks, are there any plans to reduce it? This is a question of perceived value, and retailers don’t like different package sizes so the line sticks to three box sizes. If production returns to the US and there’ll be more automation
-Will Liya ever be able to make mechs from polystyrene? It can be done but it’s not sustainable in the mass market. For example, they do all Corvus Belli’s plastics, but that’s mass market. Corvus Belli do their Siocast minis in-house because it’s not sustainable to do runs of, say 800 minis by Liya.
-How many BattleTech mins have Liya produced? Chris thinks it’s about 12 million, but Randall keeps track of that.
-Any update on improving distribution and supply to Europe? They’re on the way. They have partnership with Lets play Games and GameQuest/Shipquest for Leviathans and they’re planning to expand these into ongoing distribution. They’re waiting for one thing to sort out domestically which Rem is expecting to be sorted by the end of the year. Leftover stock for Mercs, Levs and Shadowrun Takedown will remain in place rather than be shipped back to the US. Chris said that he’s confident BattleTech is the number 2 minis game in the world right now, and apparently 20% of all stock is allocated for Europe/Rest of World in every production run at the moment.
-Any update on Mercs wave 4/4a? Most of a backer update is written, Rem is waiting for more info to cover some expected questions. Wave 4, everything where shipping is paid will be scheduled for shipping in the next week or so. That represents 248 US/Canada/ROW orders. International fulfillment for Wave 4 is waiting on some products to be shipped to warehouses and some reprints. The exact details on the reprints is the biggest part of the info Rem is waiting on before releasing the update.
-Any update on Clan Invasion canon characters? Rem has no info to hand. They’re waiting on info from Backerkit, who purchased Crowdox and can’t extract a list of people from the old Crowdox back end…
-Any update on reprint on BattleTech rulebooks? Rem will need to follow up on that
-Is there a roadmap for Battletech fiction? There’s a plan, but Rem isn’t sure how much she can talk about.
-Patches and Pins on the webstore when? A project Rem can’t talk about needs to complete before that can happen.
-Will we see older BattleTech packs like Legends and Elementals back in stock? Lots of older minis are getting reprinted, so hopefully.
Any more premium minis in the pipeline? Rem thinks so, she’s not 100% sure.
-Any more infantry and VTOL minis outside the roadmap? Nothing they can talk about
-Any chance that BattleTech Essentials will be available in Canada? It’s no longer a Target exclusive, ask your LGS and Distributors.

**BrookM**

We've had a chance to try the beta rules last Monday and they're fun! Might've helped that we're new to the game, so not as entrenched as some in the rules, but limiting the ammo damage did still result in interesting outcomes and the hit table made things faster, not to mention leading to interesting manoeuvring to shield / hit those damaged / weak sides.

**Baldanders**

Ghaz wrote:

-Will Liya ever be able to make mechs from polystyrene? It can be done but it’s not sustainable in the mass market. For example, they do all Corvus Belli’s plastics, but that’s mass market. Corvus Belli do their Siocast minis in-house because it’s not sustainable to do runs of, say 800 minis by Liya.

I was quite confused by this summation, so I watched the video, and it's clear that he was thinking of the wrong material when answering. He mentions polyurethane, but kind of stutters and doesn't state it confidently. Then compares "it" (which should be polystyrene based on the question) to siocast, and says that it's not a material suitable for mass production and implies that it would be subject to more decay or damage than what they're using (not accurate). I would love to see them making models in HIPS, so it's unfortunate that this question got fumbled.