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 lord_blackfang wrote:
https://www.reapermini.com/miniatures/trebuchet/latest

This is the one we plan on getting for our army.

Of all things in any army to proxy, war machines can mostly all be made out of balsa wood, toothpicks and paddle pop sticks. The trebuchet especially is just a bunch of rectangular prisms.

Honestly, I'll probably buy the Forgeworld mini. It looks pretty nice.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Rules and cost will determine the success of this game...so far I like the rules previewed but we still are out on costs. If it's reasonably priced compared to competitors namely mantic, I think it has a real shot of being successful.

Not to be negative or anything, but it's very unlikely that we'll get anything but GW prices from GW. That doesn't mean we can already predict an exact price, but we have some basis for a guess. Horus Heresy just got a twenty man box of Marines that sells for 60€. AoS zombies, a kit that's just over two years old and also comes with twenty models, costs 45€. The Reapers Mantic released this year are 32.50€ for twenty models.

Now I have a good feeling about the rules as well, so far anyway. But I can't imagine that GW is going to ask 2004 prices for 2004 models. Most likely it'll be 2024 prices and already include the annual price hike coming at the start of March.

In my opinion the hope here should be that the rules are designed to favor pre-7th ed regiment sizes to at least keep the cost of an army down, even if the individual units are still expensive.

 Hellebore wrote:
Of all things in any army to proxy, war machines can mostly all be made out of balsa wood, toothpicks and paddle pop sticks. The trebuchet especially is just a bunch of rectangular prisms.

Why would you build your war machines out of wood instead of bone? You're not making any sense at all.

These plastics will still be occupying (very scarce) production capacity.

The prices will be at a similar level to everything else they are releasing now, otherwise they simply wouldn't bother releasing it.

GW's bottleneck is production capacity, it is not demand. They don't need to release a cheap option.

If you're expecting anything different you're setting yourself up for inevitable disappointment.

Vorian wrote:
These plastics will still be occupying (very scarce) production capacity.

The prices will be at a similar level to everything else they are releasing now, otherwise they simply wouldn't bother releasing it.

GW's bottleneck is production capacity, it is not demand. They don't need to release a cheap option.

If you're expecting anything different you're setting yourself up for inevitable disappointment.

And GW is setting themselves up for some VERY disappointing sales numbers. Which means TOW will be a very short-lived game.

I want those foot knights kit enough to stomach current GW price. Older kits are a very different matter though.

I think the bigger risk is they are conservative on what they can sell and we hear endless complaints about the starter set selling out.

Its will have required minimal investment for sculpting and tooling, so the only way it can really go wrong for them is overproducing things.

How bad was the production for the first plastic horus heresy box. Was it obtainable by regular people or did they all go to scalpers?

I don't recall there ever being a shortage of that one.

I think its reasonable to expect a similar amount of quantity. Half Brets, half Tomb Kings.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't recall there ever being a shortage of that one.

It's been a year, but I seem to remember this is about what happened. I think I always saw it in stock at GW and the two online stores I frequently check ran out but usually got restocks within a week or two.

We don't yet know what format any starter product for The Old World will be. Hopefully we'll have a better idea after tonight's preview.

That said, in the case of a Bretonnian versus Tomb Kings starter set. I'm not sure I'd express my confidence in seeing as much stock as for Horus Heresy. GW knows Marines sell. They know their fantasy games sell less. I reckon it comes down more to how successful the hype machine is and how much extra interest that drums up compared to GW's projections.

which box do you define as the "first plastic horus heresy box"?

Betrayal at Calth? like 6-8 years ago? There was enough available, it sold out but not frighteningly fast to the point that you couldn't get it.

The Age of Darkness box with the spartan and everything in it when they launched the new edition? Thats a stock item, still available everywhere, is being reprinted to maintain supply, etc.

The Legiones Astartes Battle Group with the Mk3 armor? That was a limited edition, but not so limited you couldn't get it. Theres still plenty available.

The rumors for whats coming for TOW are a bit all over the place. Some people are saying a Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia box, others are saying separate starter boxes for each faction. Regardless what happens, I am increasingly of the opinion that it will not be a limited quantity launch product. They didn't do it for Legiones Imperialis, they didn't do it for Horus Heresy, I see no reason why they would suddenly do it for TOW, especially given the history and potential for bad blood with the community there.

Got to say there is a bit of tonal whiplash between "GW are going to charge £££ for 6th edition sculpts, who are they kidding?" and "the box is going to disappear in half an hour, with Scalpers making loads of money (by securing perhaps 1% of stock and sticking it on Ebay etc).

I think the issue with say Horus Heresy - and Legiones Imperialis - is that "this is it". The box is going to be relevant for the vast majority of the playerbase and continue to be relevant for anyone interested in starting.

By contrast, I think its unlikely most TOW players are going to be playing Tomb Kings or Brets. Now maybe that would change if this was a permanent cheap box to act as a gateway. But I'm not really convinced.

Apparently, there's a new TOW page on Facebook (source : TGA) - here's the official TOW logo :

https://i.redd.it/old-world-new-logo-plus-official-fb-page-v0-nsmtt8vyfw0c1.jpg?s=18ca4fcbb3e31b5d7b656a79b0add1cb98d53361

Noteworthy is the 2276 inscription (date ?) at the top..

Old-Four-Arms wrote:


Noteworthy is the 2276 inscription (date ?) at the top..

Ah. So we finally have a year for the games release.

Tyel wrote:
Got to say there is a bit of tonal whiplash between "GW are going to charge £££ for 6th edition sculpts, who are they kidding?" and "the box is going to disappear in half an hour, with Scalpers making loads of money (by securing perhaps 1% of stock and sticking it on Ebay etc).

I think the issue with say Horus Heresy - and Legiones Imperialis - is that "this is it". The box is going to be relevant for the vast majority of the playerbase and continue to be relevant for anyone interested in starting.

By contrast, I think its unlikely most TOW players are going to be playing Tomb Kings or Brets. Now maybe that would change if this was a permanent cheap box to act as a gateway. But I'm not really convinced.

keep in mind that there are 2 very different kind of people interested in that game, the collectors who want to own an original Warhammer Fantasy army to put it on the shelf (or finish their collection for non-ebay prices)
and the players who just want to have 100 people tournaments each weekend withing an hour driving time

of course this is an extreme and the majority will be something in between, but this is the loud minority you find on social medias, and for the one everything GW will put on sale will sell out in seconds ands their biggest fear is that they again need to pay ebay prices to finish the collection
while for the players, anything that makes the entry into the game not cheap and easy means it is doomed as the expected events won't happen

Despite the following nitpicking: thanks a bunch for the suggestions given. They are all appreciated!

kodos wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Actually curious: can you please point me to some of those "numerous competitor kits"? I am aware of some nice 3D print alternatives for "not Bret trebuchet", but I know of nothing else in terms of actual kits.

z.B.:
https://en.momminiatures.com/product-page/honda-of-god

https://www.amazon.de/ZVEZDA-Modellbausatz-Plastikbausatz-Zusammenbauen-detaillierte/dp/B000J3Y59A

https://www.norbaminiatures.com/gb/miniatures/470-trebuchet.html

Thanks! I was aware of the Norba one, just as "one of those 3D print options" - did not know they sell them printed. The MOM one is also pretty nice.

The Zvezda one is an option for people who want to go down the more historically accurate road I guess. Nothing on that model speaks to me in terms of Warhammer visuals though.

lord_blackfang wrote:https://www.reapermini.com/miniatures/trebuchet/latest

Thanks, another one I was not aware of. Not my taste in terms of Bretonnia, but quite fitting for O&G.

Hellebore wrote:Of all things in any army to proxy, war machines can mostly all be made out of balsa wood, toothpicks and paddle pop sticks. The trebuchet especially is just a bunch of rectangular prisms.

Possibly, but it will more likely than not look like crap.

Wow, plastic hero kit for a change for TK, and glorious one even!

Not Online!!! wrote:
My main issue sofar is, that units like the trebuchet are FW resin, that already will put off a lot of potential new blood.
WHFB already had often availabilty issues for a lot of units, often army defining ones and the trebuchet f.e. being already FW resin imo doesn't bode well.

Pfft. It's not like there's no other sources of trebuchet minis.

 Vulcan wrote:

Vorian wrote:
These plastics will still be occupying (very scarce) production capacity.

The prices will be at a similar level to everything else they are releasing now, otherwise they simply wouldn't bother releasing it.

GW's bottleneck is production capacity, it is not demand. They don't need to release a cheap option.

If you're expecting anything different you're setting yourself up for inevitable disappointment.

And GW is setting themselves up for some VERY disappointing sales numbers. Which means TOW will be a very short-lived game.

I'm betting they can't keep up with demand.

I see lots of armchair ceo's claiming gw sucks but none who actually puts his money where his mouth is and run company that outsells gw. Only reason not to do is because armchair ceo is actually worse than gw

Gw meanwhile rakes millions while trying to cope with overdemand laughing at armchair ceo's bad predictions.

But go ahead and outperform gw. If you　have got the skill you can do it.


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chaos0xomega wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:


Noteworthy is the 2276 inscription (date ?) at the top..

Ah. So we finally have a year for the games release.

Oh we had already. Early 2024.

 Darnok wrote:
That IGOUGO "discussion" surely will lead to GW implementing changes at the last minute. So very useful having it in this N&R thread, since it most definitely will be a thing!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Oh people aren't going to buy the treb from FW, they are going to 3d print or get one from one of the numerous competitor kits.

Actually curious: can you please point me to some of those "numerous competitor kits"? I am aware of some nice 3D print alternatives for "not Bret trebuchet", but I know of nothing else in terms of actual kits.

Sure. You just do a Google search. They pop right up.
Here's one to get you started: https://www.walmart.com/ip/WizKids-WZK90340-WZK-DC-Trebuchet-W15-Miniatures/332600895?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=5331&adid=22222222222000000000&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=10352200394&wl4=pla-1103028060075&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&wl10=Walmart&wl11=Online&wl12=332600895_10000005515&wl14=trebuchet%20miniature&veh=sem&gclid=10bf065be9de15cc8fe16303b3c6cc11&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=10bf065be9de15cc8fe16303b3c6cc11

Pretty nice bone dragon, I love the crocodile head, very unique. Downside, it's very spindly and overhangs the base by a lot, so breakages ahoy. Honestly kinda looks like it was engineered for the 16cm round.

So basically it's only bretonia that got fethed over with a lack of plastics for heros and lords and the trebuchet.

The more things change the more they stay the same

I like the fact that regardless how you build the dragon you got a foot hero ontop.

Not Online!!! wrote:
So basically it's only bretonia that got fethed over with a lack of plastics for heros and lords and the trebuchet.

Besides the two plastic mounted heroes?

I like the crocodile head.

But lots of stuff will break on that model. Amusingly cartoonish mummy faces...

Undead cat is a funny addition.

I didn't notice it the first time but I've just realised they did a riff on the Mummy sand face in the tattered cloth above the palanquin which is bloody hilarious

The crocodile dragon with unstable howdah and giganto banner looks super janky.

So Valrak correct, Hastings and the other guy saying Chariot wrong.