Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If someone has their entire list packed into 3 termites, deploys all the models on the table turn 1, then goes subterranean their first movement phase so they can emerge on turn 2, is this violating any rules to have your entire army leave the table for a turn?

warpedpig wrote:
If someone has their entire list packed into 3 termites, deploys all the models on the table turn 1, then goes subterranean their first movement phase so they can emerge on turn 2, is this violating any rules to have your entire army leave the table for a turn?

How do you get them to go underground again? That's not a rule they have.

Damn I must’ve got it mixed up with another unit. There goes my idea down the drain.

CSM AL has a WLT (master of diversion) which allows three units to be placed in strategic reserves. Your entire army, except your warlord, is now in strategic reserves, and can arrive on the battlefield turn 2. What is your plan ?

Btw, there is no rule saying you must have a unit on the battlefield. Your entire army can disappear if they have been deployed on the battlefield.

It does not work in Arks of omen it gets you around the unit number limitation

However you are not allowed to have more than half the points value of your army in strategic reserve "even if every unit in your army has a rule that would allow them to do so"

You are correct there is no rule saying you must have a unit on the battlefield they just can't all be in reserve

Your also misquoting that warlord trait it happens in the pre battle abilities step not the first movement step. there are units that can leave three table T1 which is legal

I dont know about AoO, because its not out yet. In Nephilim GT master of diversion works fine.

Step 10 says :

No more than half the total number of units in a players army can be Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units, and the combined points value of all Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units (including those embarked within TRANSPORT models that are Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units) must be less than half of the total points value of a player’s army, even if every unit in that army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

No unit was put into SR, so this is fine. In step 11 the entire army is deployed on the battlefield.

Master of diversion happens in step 13, and it says :

MASTER OF DIVERSION
After both sides have deployed, in the Resolve Pre-battle Abilities step of the mission you are playing, you can select up to three ALPHA LEGION units from your army that are wholly within your deployment zone. Remove those units from the battlefield, then set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is wholly within your deployment zone and more than 9" away from any enemy models. If the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves.

I can put those three termites into SR because there is no going back to step 10 checking if half my points and units are on the battlefield. Also i never said that the WLT happens in the movement phase.

Also, keep in mind that Strategic Reserves =/= underground. If you put the Termites into Strategic Reserves, they would later deploy following those rules, NOT their Subterranean Assault.

Yes and the same argument applies to nephilim you are still limited to the points requirement and have no exemption it applies to strategic reserves not just in step 10

U02dah4 wrote:
Yes and the same argument applies to nephilim you are still limited to the points requirement and have no exemption it applies to strategic reserves not just in step 10

Master of diversion says any of those units can be placed into tactical reserves, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves. There is your exemption.

Yes regardless of how many units it provides a counter to the unit number clause


It does not provide a counter to the pts requirements clause

"
No more than half the total number of units in a players army can be Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units, " this is countered by that statement as it says regardless of the number of units

"and the combined points value of all Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units (including those embarked within TRANSPORT models that are Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units) must be less than half of the total points value of a player’s army, even if every unit in that army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere" this is not countered by that statement as it does not say regardless of the points value of those units and it further clarify that this applies even if every unit could be set up elsewhere)

U02dah4 wrote:

It does not provide a counter to the pts requirements clause

"
No more than half the total number of units in a players army can be Strategic Reserve and/or Reinforcement units, " this is countered by that statement as it says regardless of the number of units

This is true for step 10. Once you are past step 10 there is no going back.

 p5freak wrote:
CSM AL has a WLT (master of diversion) which allows three units to be placed in strategic reserves. Your entire army, except your warlord, is now in strategic reserves, and can arrive on the battlefield turn 2. What is your plan ?

Btw, there is no rule saying you must have a unit on the battlefield. Your entire army can disappear if they have been deployed on the battlefield.

The plan is score a turn’s worth of Secomdary points that the silly Chaos player can’t answer to, and sit on every Objective ready to score top of T2 and zone out the Chaos player.

I think my Nids could make it hard for you to deploy anywhere, certainly not anywhere you want to.

What is your plan?

Sometimes it ain’t worth a rules argument if someone insists on theoretical cheese. Let them do their theoretical cheese. Then punish them for it.

Once you're past step ten, why are you rechecking step ten?

Because step 10 applies the blanket rules for placing units into strategic reserves its not a spot check it applies throught the game unless modified.

For example it has a clause that refers to destroying units that haven't arrived by the end of the third battle round which would be some point between 14 and 15.

It also has a rule about not deploying in the first battle round at step 14 and 15

Master of diversion occurs at step 13 clearly within its time frame.

It does have an exemption for units that enter from step 14 onwards ("Does not apply to units that are placed into strategic reserve after the first battle round has started)" but as noted Master of diversion is 13 pre battle abilities

No, those conditions are in place when you start step ten. They remain in place because they aren't resolved. The language for being placed in strat reserves is resolved at this point.

Your reading isn't based on the written rules, just your interpretation of something not written there.

My reading is clearly based on the written rules I quoted them if they don't apply beyond step 10 why do my units that haven't arrived by the end of the third battle round get destroyed? or why cant I deploy on turn 1 because these rules are only written in step 10

Master of disguise places in strategic reserves ergo the strategic reserves rules apply - because it was before the start of battle round 1 which is the point at rules quote says it no longer applies

"Does not apply to units that are placed into strategic reserve after the first battle round has started)"

No, they're based on this idea that you have to go back and recheck step ten. You don't. Nothing says to go backwards through the battle steps just because a random dakka guy says so.

Step ten sets up a condition on units placed in s reserve that if met destroys them. This doesn't mean you're going back and applying step ten again, because that's not how ongoing conditions works.

You remain wrong in this. Please let me know which tournaments you TO so I can avoid...

So why do you destroy units that haven't arrived by turn 3

And why can't you deploy deepstrikers on turn 1

Please explain without reference to the content of step 10
(Because your after step 14 and before 15 and under your logic you cant look back to the previous page)

Apparently you failed to read and understand the term "condition"

If I say "you can do x but if you don't do so by y z happens", you don't need to go back to the text to know what's going to happen.

Units placed in SR have multiple conditions placed upping them
None of them require you to go backwards thriugh the game and start checking again just in case you now need to meet another condition.

You're I exactly the same boat as those who want to check for list validity after the game starts...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Apparently you failed to read and understand the term "condition"

If I say "you can do x but if you don't do so by y z happens", you don't need to go back to the text to know what's going to happen.

Units placed in SR have multiple conditions placed upping them
None of them require you to go backwards thriugh the game and start checking again just in case you now need to meet another condition.

You're I exactly the same boat as those who want to check for list validity after the game starts...

So if you say this is how strategic reserves work then later when Master of disguise puts the units into strategic reserves we don't need to go back and check the rules in step 10 we know what they are they are the conditions of strategic reserves and have been placed upon them - your logic

no im quite clear once the game starts strategic reserves tells you that you stop checking the issue is the game hasn't started when master of disguise does its thing and it does refer to putting things into strategic reserves the rule referenced text in an earlier step

What a long run on sentence there...

Doesn't alter that MoD explicitly permits yiu to put any three units in SR and doesn't care what SR says about the matter.

It doesn't say that it is excepted from strategic reserves rules

It says

"If the mission uses the Strategic Reserves rules, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves without having to spend any additional CPs, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves."

That's not an exemption from pts requirements. it is an acknowledgement that it would be effected by Strategic reserves rules otherwise why have an exemption for the cp requirements