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Weapons
- Mastercrafted Xenophase Blade (Melee, S+1, AP-4, D2, target cannot make invulnerable saves against this weapon's attacks)
Abilities
- Angels of Death, Chapter Master, Rites of Battle (Aura)
- Artificer Armour and Iron Halo: This model gets a 2+ and a 4++ - Blackstone Seal: If targeted/affected by psychic power, roll D6: on a 2+ that power has no effect - Way of the Blade: Each time this model attacks, you can re-roll the hit roll and the wound roll
Warlord Trait: The Imperium's Sword
- This model must have this warlord trait if it is your Warlord
Chapter Tactics: Hungry for Battle and Whirlwind of Rage
- These seemed the most appropriate
DIY Chapter Master - Chief Librarian character
Spoiler:
- Primaris Captain statline
Weapons
- Sword of Entropy (Mastercrafted Force Sword that ignores invulnerable and daemonic saves)
Abilities
- Angels of Death, Psychic Hood
- Psychic Warrior: This model permanently has the effects of the Veil of Time and Might of Heroes powers, but cannot cast any other powers.
Psyker
- As per its Psychic Warrior ability, this model cannot cast any powers, but is able to deny two powers in the enemy's psychic phase.
Warlord Trait
- Iron Resolve
Multiple DIY wargear and relics
Spoiler:
Accelerators - The bearer can charge in the same turn it Advanced.
- When Advancing, do not roll a D6, instead move 6".
- Each time a model makes an attack against the bearer, an unmodified hit roll of 1-3 always fails.
Torchlight - 15", Assault D6, Strength 4, AP-1, Damage 2, Blast, attacks automatically hit, always wounds on a 2+
Wardforged Armour - Each time a DAEMON unit makes a melee attack against the bearer, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.
- All damage inflicted on this model by DAEMON units is halved (rounded up).
Helm of Defiant Rage - This model can re-roll wound rolls when attacking DAEMON units.
- This model is unaffected by the DAEMONIC TERROR (AURA) ability common to most DAEMON units.
The Purifier (Combi-weapon) - Mastercrafted Absolver Bolt Pistol: 18", Pistol 1, S5, AP-1, Damage 3
- Mastercrafted Hand Flamer: 18", Pistol D6, S3, AP-1, Damage 2, attacks with this weapon automatically hit
The Redeemer - Melee, Melee, S+1, AP-2, Damage 3, unmodified wound rolls of 6 (or 4+ if the target is a CHAOS unit) inflict 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage
Ferrophage - Melee, Melee, S+3, AP-2, Damage 3, attacks made against a VEHICLE unit inflict 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage
Sidenote: The DIY Chapter Master is something I've been trying to balance for quite a while. In many previous iterations, I was told that he was too OP. For example, his weapon ignored every type of saving throw and damage-ignoring ability, he could move like a jetbike despite being on foot, and it was very hit to hit or damage him (1-3 hit rolls and 1-3 wound rolls always fail, on top of 2+ and 4++).
I'd recommend looking at the White Dwarf rules for the Exorcists Chapter. In fact, I think everything listed on 1d4chan is accurate for the rules. While it's lame they're listed as an Imperial Fists successor, it should give some inspiration on what direction you should go.
When I look at a homebrew character, I ask myself the following:
A.) Why can't this character be represented an existing datasheet. What is it about them that requires custom rules for me to feel their fluff is being represented on the table.
B.) Does the character steal another unit's thunder? Is he better at melee than Kharn and Lucius or a more powerful psyker than Eldrad?
C.) Would this character be fun to play both with and against?
I see you've given him an extra Attack and Wound over a normal captain. Is that a chapter master thing? If not, why does he warrant being both more lethal and durable than other captains/chapter masters?
Weapons
- Mastercrafted Xenophase Blade (Melee, S+1, AP-4, D2, target cannot make invulnerable saves against this weapon's attacks)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you've given his sword an extra point of Damage over the normal version. Why is his sword so much more special than the other special swords? Also, I know this is just a xenophase blade thing in general, but good AP and the ability to ignore invulns on a beatstick character loaded up with melee buffs is kind of a red flag. Having all your defensive stats/buffs bypassed can be frustrating. Again, not unique to your guy, but something to keep in mind as we consider him on the whole.
Abilities
- Angels of Death, Chapter Master, Rites of Battle (Aura)
- Artificer Armour and Iron Halo: This model gets a 2+ and a 4++ - Blackstone Seal: If targeted/affected by psychic power, roll D6: on a 2+ that power has no effect - Way of the Blade: Each time this model attacks, you can re-roll the hit roll and the wound roll
So he has all the advantages of a normal chapter master plus Blackstone Seal and Way of the Blade on top of it? Is this guy not just flat out better than a generic chapter master? If this guy were a generic option available to all marines, when do you see yourself not taking this guy over a generic captain/chapter master?
Blackstone Seal is a slightly feelsbad rule, but it's not too big a deal given that it only benefits the chapter master. Might want to clarify how this works when dealing with auras. As written, a power that impacts or comes into range of multiple units could be negated for all impacted units instead of just this guy. (Which, if intentional, would potentially add to the feelsbad.)
What is your thinking behind Way of the Blade? What is it representing about the character's fluff? Why is it here? The way it reads to me is that you want this guy to be an even better combatant than 99% of the other chapter masters in existence. Do you feel that's justified?
Overall, it feels like you took a generic chapter master and just made him better without taking anything away. Like he's one-upping the other chapter masters because he's just that great. I haven't mathed out how he actually compares to other beatstick captains, but that's the impression he gives off. I'd suggest trying to pin down what makes him so different from the other CMs that he needs his own datasheet, and then ask yourself what you can take away or what weaknesses you can add to make those quirks feel like a tradeoff instead of an upgrade.
Weapons
- Sword of Entropy (Mastercrafted Force Sword that ignores invulnerable and daemonic saves)
Abilities
- Angels of Death, Psychic Hood
- Psychic Warrior: This model permanently has the effects of the Veil of Time and Might of Heroes powers, but cannot cast any other powers.
Psyker
- As per its Psychic Warrior ability, this model cannot cast any powers, but is able to deny two powers in the enemy's psychic phase.
Warlord Trait
- Iron Resolve
Okay. So we have a librarian locked into a beatstick build who it better at being a beatstick than any other librarian (except maybe Mephiston). I'm not really in the loop on marines right now. If you wanted to take a beatstick librarian, would you ever consider taking a generic librarian over this guy? Or is he just better at it than every other beatstick librarian?
Once again, a super special sword that ignores saves (even saves that normally can't be ignored) is potentially a feelsbad mechanic. Not unique to this guy, but also something to keep in mind.
I'm not a big fan of psychic powers having the potential to fail, but letting this be the only guy in the galaxy who doesn't have to worry about powers not going off feels wrong. This guy casts his psychic powers more reliably than Magnus, Eldrad, and Tigurius and can never have his powers denied. Consider changing this to just automatically counting as having rolled an 8 when casting Veil of Time or Might of Heroes. It guarantees he'll succeed (with an above average result even), but still leaves him vulnerable to deny the witch, etc. Plus, it means that his powers follow the rules for normal casting (more or less) and thus have less chance of running into weird rules interactions.
Multiple DIY wargear and relics
Spoiler:
Accelerators - The bearer can charge in the same turn it Advanced.
- When Advancing, do not roll a D6, instead move 6".
- Each time a model makes an attack against the bearer, an unmodified hit roll of 1-3 always fails.
Personal bias: I don't like "miss on a result of 1-x" rules. Just make it a -1 to hit. Why does moving fast making him more durable against space marines but not guardsmen?
Torchlight - 15", Assault D6, Strength 4, AP-1, Damage 2, Blast, attacks automatically hit, always wounds on a 2+
What is this supposed to be representing? What is this weapon doing that lets it wound an imperial knight on a 2+ while also only being AP-1 and Damage 2? Also, why Damage 2 specifically? Another bias of mine, but any time I see D2, it makes me wonder if someone just doesn't like facing marines. A weapon that automatically hits, almost automatically wounds, and gets around its random number of shots against some large squads seems like it has some feelsbad potential, but at least your opponent will usually still get a save against this.
Wardforged Armour - Each time a DAEMON unit makes a melee attack against the bearer, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.
- All damage inflicted on this model by DAEMON units is halved (rounded up).
Seems fine. I don't usually like relics that only work against certain factions because it's too likely to either not matter or feel like tailoring. But that said, I don't see this breaking anyone's game against daemons. Probably fine.
Helm of Defiant Rage - This model can re-roll wound rolls when attacking DAEMON units.
- This model is unaffected by the DAEMONIC TERROR (AURA) ability common to most DAEMON units.
Meh. See above about faction-specific rules. I could see this one being slightly more annoying as a daemon player because there's less counterplay to this than the Wardforged Armour.
The Purifier (Combi-weapon) - Mastercrafted Absolver Bolt Pistol: 18", Pistol 1, S5, AP-1, Damage 3
- Mastercrafted Hand Flamer: 18", Pistol D6, S3, AP-1, Damage 2, attacks with this weapon automatically hit
Probably fine. Not a fan of kill-more-betterer relics, but that's a me thing. Doesn't strike me as broken, although potentially getting 15 Damage out of a single weapon does make it worth keeping an eye on.
The Redeemer - Melee, Melee, S+1, AP-2, Damage 3, unmodified wound rolls of 6 (or 4+ if the target is a CHAOS unit) inflict 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage
Kill-more-betterer. See above. Probably fine.
Ferrophage - Melee, Melee, S+3, AP-2, Damage 3, attacks made against a VEHICLE unit inflict 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage
I like weapons that specialize in being good against vehicles at the cost of being meh against other targets. This seems like it's just a really good weapon that gets even better against vehicles though, which pushes it towards the kill-more-betterer pile. I don't recognize the S+3, AP-2, D3 statline. What do you picture this looking like? Is this a special hammer or mace or something?
Consider making the base stats of the weapon more tame so that it feels like a specialized anti-vehicle weapon instead of being a kill everything weapon that also kills vehicles even faster. Also, consider rephrasing the mortal wound rule to only kick in on a to-wound roll of X+. s worded, this thing does mortal wounds even when your attacks don't hit. You could even go so far as to not make it do mortal wounds at all but to just treat its Damage characteristic as being higher when it targets vehicles. So the vehicles would still benefit from their saves and toughness and such.
Sidenote: The DIY Chapter Master is something I've been trying to balance for quite a while. In many previous iterations, I was told that he was too OP. For example, his weapon ignored every type of saving throw and damage-ignoring ability, he could move like a jetbike despite being on foot, and it was very hit to hit or damage him (1-3 hit rolls and 1-3 wound rolls always fail, on top of 2+ and 4++).
Wait, did you intend for the chapter master presented above to also have access to the relics you've presented here?
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
Xenophase Blade is from Deathwatch, and is basically that statline but at D1. Master crafting a weapon usually adds 1 to damage, so that specific part makes sense, at least.
Edit: what’s the story behind these things?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/14 03:05:42
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
I can't say that I know Wyldhunt. Yes Neoaigaion is also me, but that account password was lost.
Edit: Now that my internet is properly fixed, I can reply to questions/criticism now.
@Wildhunt
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you've given his sword an extra point of Damage over the normal version
Mastercrafted weapons have +1 Damage by design. Plus, even when AoC was a thing, AP-4 still looked very appealing.
Blackstone Seal is a slightly feelsbad rule, but it's not too big a deal given that it only benefits the chapter master.
Apart from the name, it's a direct copy of a Militarum Tempestus detachment relic from 8th edition. At the time it seemed more balanced than just saying "this model cannot be targeted or affected by psychic powers".
What is your thinking behind Way of the Blade?
That the character was very good with the sword. Even a 2+ hit roll can miss sometimes (modifiers not withstanding).
Or is he just better at it than every other beatstick librarian?
Not my most serious DIY character. The intent was to have a character whose use of powers was more melee-focused than about blasting things to atoms from afar.
Why does moving fast making him more durable against space marines but not guardsmen?
It seemed like a very appealing ability at the time. The intent with that piece of wargear was to have a character whose speed and evasion can come close to or match the likes of Druhkari.
What is this supposed to be representing?
An enhanced Flamer. Damage 2 seemed ideal. I don't recall relics of any kind having plain-old Damage 1.
Seems fine. I don't usually like relics that only work against certain factions...
I could see this one being slightly more annoying as a daemon player because there's less counterplay to this than the Wardforged Armour.
I came up with these when I was fascinated about having Doom's Doomslayer cross over into 40k. A character who could stand toe-to-toe with daemons and potentially win.
Probably fine. Not a fan of kill-more-betterer relics, but that's a me thing. Doesn't strike me as broken...
This I designed as a weapon for a Primaris Chaplain.
Kill-more-betterer. See above. Probably fine.
Anti-chaos sword.
I like weapons that specialize in being good against vehicles at the cost of being meh against other targets.
Just an enhanced Power Axe that can cripple machinery such as vehicles.
did you intend for the chapter master presented above to also have access to the relics you've presented here?
No. He would have his own gear, such as the Master-crafted Xenophase Blade.
@JNAProductions
what’s the story behind these things?
I had only fleshed out lore behind the "Master-crafted Xenophase Blade". That name was just to make things easier for an outside observer; say the name and the stats would usually come to you. Originally, it was to be a relic of human origin from the DAoT. A blade that could slice through armour and forcefields as if they were paper-thin. Inspired by the High-Frequency Blades from the Metal Gear franchise.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 06:43:27
Weapons
- Mastercrafted Xenophase Blade (Melee, S+1, AP-4, D2, target cannot make invulnerable saves against this weapon's attacks)
Abilities
- Angels of Death, Chapter Master, Rites of Battle (Aura)
- Artificer Armour and Iron Halo: This model gets a 2+ and a 4++ - Blackstone Seal: If targeted/affected by psychic power, roll D6: on a 2+ that power has no effect - Way of the Blade: Each time this model attacks, you can re-roll the hit roll and the wound roll
Warlord Trait: The Imperium's Sword
- This model must have this warlord trait if it is your Warlord
Chapter Tactics: Hungry for Battle and Whirlwind of Rage
- These seemed the most appropriate
Overall, this version of the character isn't outrageous, but IMHO it draws too many rules from too many sources. I'm assuming he is a Primaris Captain based the statblock (keywords missing from the writeup). He seems to be missing a gun of some sort from his wargear list.
Having effectively 3 relics is not abnormal for GW Unique characters. So the Artificer Armor (should be in the stats, not the abilities), Blackstone Seal, and a better than Mastercrafted Powersword are not bad. However, taking a highly-limited Deathwatch weapon (Zenophase blade) that ignores Invulnerable saves and Mastercrafting it can be considered a bridge too far by many. I've always thought a Mastercrafted Relic Blade would be a spicy weapon (S +3, AP -3, D 3).
Way of the Blade is crazy powerful as a model ability. None of the Space Marine characters considered to be melee combat experts have anything close to this (closest apply this to Character targets only). I therefore think it is too much. I suggest making Way of the Blade a defensive ability of some sort rather than making the character all offense all the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 18:43:46
Agreed with alextroy that it's probably a good idea to make Way of the Blade defensive or to otherwise change it to be less offensive in nature.
Above I said:
A.) Why can't this character be represented an existing datasheet. What is it about them that requires custom rules for me to feel their fluff is being represented on the table.
B.) Does the character steal another unit's thunder? Is he better at melee than Kharn and Lucius or a more powerful psyker than Eldrad?
C.) Would this character be fun to play both with and against?
I feel like your chapter master runs into item B pretty hard. He seems to just be a straight up better version of a generic chapter master. He seems to have basically all the same abilities as a generic brand CM, but he gets extra bonuses on top of it without giving up anything significant.
Additionally, by virtue of being *so good* with a sword that he warrants his Way of the Blade rule, the implication is that every chapter master without a similar rule is just less good at sword fighting than your guy is.
If you show up to a game against another marine player and present this guy, you're basically going,
"Hi. This is my special homebrew chapter master. He's like your chapter master, only better"
And you can see why other people not be wild about that.
I suggest trying to make your guy feel *different* rather than *better*. Normally the company champion's job is to be the best melee combatant so that their captain/chapter master can focus on commanding the battle. So if your guy is still so dedicated to his swordcraft that he warrants having a special rule to reflect it, maybe he should lose access to one or more of his abilities to grant nearby allies rerolls. Make him out to be this slightly odd CM who hasn't really grown into the role of a commander because he can't let go of the martial perfection that saw him promoted to the role in the first place. Maybe even take it a step farther and say he can't fall back while within engagement range of an enemy character due to his martial pride.
Not my most serious DIY character. The intent was to have a character whose use of powers was more melee-focused than about blasting things to atoms from afar.
Sure. Valid concept. The thing that feels off to me about the librarian is that it's already possible to build a melee librarian. If someone takes the same powers as this guy, they're trying to convey the idea of a librarian that is good in melee. Which then begs the question, why does your melee librarian get to be better than everyone else's melee librarian? Again, I'd aim for *different* rather than *better*. What drawbacks can you give this guy so that your opponent will feel good about having his melee librarian duel yours?
An enhanced Flamer. Damage 2 seemed ideal. I don't recall relics of any kind having plain-old Damage 1.
If it's just a flamer, then wounding on 2+ seems weird. What is going on with this thing's fire that lets it wound a land raider more reliably than a meltagun? Plus, you've already given it better Damage, AP, and Range than a normal flamer plus you've given it blast to make it even more effective against hordes. Letting it also wound everything on a 2+ on top of that feels very greedy/kitchen-sink-y. But again, I'm biased, and I'm not a big fan of relics that are just better versions of existing weapons.
I came up with these when I was fascinated about having Doom's Doomslayer cross over into 40k. A character who could stand toe-to-toe with daemons and potentially win.
I mean, 40k daemons lose to marines and even normal humans all the time. But again, this armor's not game breaking . If it sparks joy, then have fun.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
There's other more interesting things you can do if you're concerned about an Invul too. For example, maybe the Sword he has can count as AP-1 against Invuls?
EviscerationPlague wrote: There's other more interesting things you can do if you're concerned about an Invul too. For example, maybe the Sword he has can count as AP-1 against Invuls?
I did have an idea for an ability similar to what you propose. This is the result:
Xenophage Blade (WIP name, not final)
Melee / S+1 / AP-3 / Damage 2 / The Armour Penetration characteristic of this weapon affects invulnerable saving throws
I'm also revisiting my concept of an Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos armed with such a weapon. He'd be less powerful stats-wise (Inquisitor compared to Primaris Captain), but lore-wise, the Inquisitor's acquisition of certain items might make more sense.
