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Here is an in progress look at our new samurai version of our Crusader Dreadnought. The final product will be avail as an stl library, a physical model from shapeways or individual parts you can add to the existing kit. Check out our whole line at https://bwterrainforge.com/collections/crusader-dreadnought

I really don't think emulating the iconography of an actual fascist regime from within the last century is the way to go.

Most people don't view it as you do. Ebay will sell you this on a t-shirt.

JWBS wrote:
Most people don't view it as you do. Ebay will sell you this on a t-shirt.

That's neither here nor there and I imagine that the many victims of Imperial Japan would feel differently.

This hobby and community already has enough of a problem with fash crap and we don't need more.

 Kawauso wrote:
I really don't think emulating the iconography of an actual fascist regime from within the last century is the way to go.

The rising sun is an ambiguous symbol, it was used before the WWII as a samurai symbol, and is still used today as the Naval Ensign of the Maritime Self Defense Force. It was never the flag of Japan, it was the naval ensign of the Imperial Navy.

The flag of Japan before, during and after the war was the Hi no Maru, the current 'meatball' flag.

All that being said, yeah a lot of people associate it only with Imperial Japan so the sculptors might want to research other Samurai symbols. It would be like having an argument about the swastikas on your historically accurate Buddhist Warrior Monk army. No one needs that grief.

Re: the rising sun icon, yeah, it's tricky re: fascism, since no one would question the swastika's messy connotations despite a much older origin. OTOH, it's much less loaded than the swastika and used in pop culture: I first thought of Yamagata's famous shirt in Akira.

Re: the actual design, the kabuto part is, eh, fine, but I really don't like the mask. It doesn't match the style of the helmet and is really flat, so looks like a robot with a cosplay hat and a weird skull decal. There's such a history of robots, dolls, puppets, and uniforms coming from Japan, calling this a "samurai" design only underscores how much this doesn't really fit real motifs.

Oh, it's lets-find-something-to-be-offended-day! Haven't noticed the rising sun until then. If that really is your concern, in 40000 years noone will associate it with imperial Japan. Time to chill out.

On the actual model: the details look fine, but it comes across very comical. Looks much like TMNT cyber Shredder. I would tone it down a bit if it is not meant that way. My last Dread had cats ears and a tail, but that's another thing.

 Garfield666 wrote:
..., in 40000 years noone will associate it with imperial Japan..

That might be a valid point if it wasn't included on a samurai-inspired robot.

Copying real world iconography along with real world designs into a setting 40000 years into the future almost always looks weird and out of place. Using a modification of the rising sun as a faction symbol is potentially fine. Having samurai-inspired design elements is fine. Combining them both together is on the nose.

If the icon was of the Naval Ensign, I'd have noticed. Given that in this case, the Sun is in a round field rising over a mountain peak, I didn't even notice until this thread.

As for the model, it looks good, but I'm not a fan of the head, myself.

 Kawauso wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Most people don't view it as you do. Ebay will sell you this on a t-shirt.

That's neither here nor there and I imagine that the many victims of Imperial Japan would feel differently.

This hobby and community already has enough of a problem with fash crap and we don't need more.

Popular sentiment is very much here and also there and people feel differently about all kinds of stuff.

There's no fash problem in our hobby but I agree that an increase to the negligible presence would be undesirable.

Thanks for the feedback all =D There are many who do samurai space marines and we have been making pieces for many years for those who want asian flair. I have had clients ask for all different things. pumpkin heads for halloween, cupid hearts for valentines. I had a guy ask for nerf guns a balloon animal swords. At the end of the days there are people playing there grim dark in many ways and forms. For those offended by samurais sorry. Please feel free to purchase from the next guy. For those interested we do custom work and have a wide variety of bits for those who want something a little different. Check us out at https://bwterrainforge.com

No one is "offended by the samurai"; it was merely pointed out that the Rising Sun motif is heavily associated with Imperial Japan and its war crimes (which it still officially denies) in Asia - particularly by people in China and Korea who have said as much.

It's a symbol with ties to far-right ideology also particularly in "the West" where fascists routinely hold up an idealized version of Japan as a mode "monoculture/race society". Reactionaries love it for that reason.

No, it's not like "the Canadian flag in my profile", which serves to indicate my nationality. That ignores both that Japan's national flag is not the "Rising Sun" and also that I'm not plastering my flag across my 40k armies (because I'm not a nationalist weirdo).

Yes, there is a fash problem in our hobby - anyone who is a woman or any sort of minority and exists visibly in our hobby space can easily tell you that. Anyone who saw the reactions to GW's inclusivity statement a couple years back can tell you that. And all the comments I've addressed are exactly the sort of attitudes which at best give cover for that problem by downplaying and ignoring the factors which contribute towards it.

The model itself is fine, if I feel it strays too far from the core of a contemptor chassis - but all of that is irrelevant next to the fact that putting a charged real-world political symbol on it, at a time when many people are actively utilizing such symbols to try and regress society by 90 years, is in poor taste and massively irresponsible. Symbols mean things and when you make use of them you need to understand that.

My comment was a call for thoughtfulness and nothing more.

I get you though I disagree with a lot. Real world events seep into our imaginary ones. The "Red" gobbo has an interesting and official backstory as well as an interesting and offical model with multiple incarnations. He always wears a Soviet winter tank coat and a "Hero of the Sov Union" medal. It's not subtle, look at the conversions where people have leaned into the theme (farm implements etc) Many in the Soviet army would have worn this medal as the army invaded (list of countries). I'm not a fan of Communists but I won't ever object, I have a line ofc but it's not there. Live and let live. Any debate re the relative merits of specific totalitarian regimes and the severity of their crime goes nowhere good so I'll exit here.

Biggest problem with the model is not symbols but that is ugly.

Also, nothing in the design is saying ”samurai” apart from an extremely poor attempt to add a tiny and crude helmeted head - that to some people might appear vaguely japanese but in reality is looking as if taken directly from a Lego minifig.

IMHO the model needs a total redesign, with sode instead of the round shoulder guards, a giant kabuto-ish top, etc.

We haven't seen this in its full light. If I was going to be critical I'd say possibly the mouth could be improved (looks like it's maybe mouth breathing if I'm looking for fault) though even then I get the feeling that this design is referencing something iconic, it feels very familiar. Change the shoulder to vertical rib style perhaps (idk if that would be suitable).

I'd personally be fine with it so long as its clear what its supposed to be, in this case a Contemptor Dread I think, and if it matched a theme of the army. I know plenty of 3rd party manufacturers who produce Samurai inspired parts and the symbolism on the model matches that theme. So I'd be cool playing against it with my Orks or Tyranids.

Looks pretty good too in my opinion but lets set it with some paint on it.

For those with non political comments. Thank you for your thoughts. This is a WIP and will have some heavy over hall to theme it apart from the generic version. I am adding oni fangs to the helmet and some more details to take advantage of the scale. The shoulders are baing redesigned and there will be others elements added to the torso. I will also add shin guards made more in line with a more japanese influenced armor. I will also be adding arm options to use tekkos tetsubo, and samurai swords. Lastly I will be adding a few topper options

the visor in the chest is odd for sure but to be fair i didnt notice it at first glance.
looking forward to the shoulder redesign.
i cant put my finger on it but something is just off about them(sorry about that).
maybe too much dead space between the shoulder and torso...?

Dreads in particular could be presented better in terms of posing. I like the shoulder proportions on this one but I'd say the arm / torso gap on the other is too big, and the pose is maybe the worst it could possibly be. Static / schematic style or believable dynamism, either choice would be appreciably better imo. I like some of those early mark backpacks, I'll order the stl tomorrow.

You could try setting up the front chest plate like Samurai armor from the Edo period, with large scales starting from the bottom and heading up towards the "neck line" and a armor skirt to protect the central joint between the legs and the chest.

Looks cool!

A sobering reminder that I need to finish my BA IJA army.

I spent waaaay too much holiday hobby time on my Waffen-SS; those tiny decals sure are tricky!

 Kawauso wrote:
No one is "offended by the samurai"

Ugh, seriously. This was such a snarky response that it escalated from a design I didn't love to a company I wouldn't buy from. What a ridiculous way to rep your company.

The crest on the top of the head looks a little thick front to back, unless it's an issue with the material being used for the model for printing.

Or perhaps some alternate shoulder armor that harken to the look of traditional samurai armor would look cool. It gives and option of adding a flat space for chapter decals or some freehand if desired. Like the bushi shoulder pads you have on your site I think would look better for the model to keep with the theme so to speak.

The aggressor captain viking conversion is dope, won't be using all the bits, but looking forward to getting it in the mail from shapeways.

 Kawauso wrote:
I really don't think emulating the iconography of an actual fascist regime from within the last century is the way to go.

What iconography?

The sunburst is incomplete and doesn't have a dedicated colour, and the sun is centred, and there is a mountain. That is a lot of degrees of separation.

Also 40K doesn't shy away from totalitarian iconography from the last century.. Where do you think Commissars come from?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Kawauso wrote:
No one is "offended by the samurai"

Ugh, seriously. This was such a snarky response that it escalated from a design I didn't love to a company I wouldn't buy from. What a ridiculous way to rep your company.

Doesn't seem like Kawauso is a rep of the company, though.

As to the model itself... Have to say that the way it is now doesn't really say anything to me. There are already better stl options in the market, IMHO, like for example the two versions from Arma Mechanatus, or the big one from Puppetswar, so...

Kawauso is not a rep for BW Terrain & Forge. BRTF is just me.

Here is the current revised shoulder joint

If we're talking aesthetics I'd say the new shoulder looks overdone, the rivets, the skull, the dragon look Ming Chinese to my semi trained eyes.

Which is fine if you're going that way.

But I generally associate classical Japanese design with more simplicity. You'd see elaborate carvings in sword hilts but not in armor.

Feel free to disagree, but since you asked...

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
the visor in the chest is odd for sure but to be fair i didnt notice it at first glance.
looking forward to the shoulder redesign.
i cant put my finger on it but something is just off about them(sorry about that).
maybe too much dead space between the shoulder and torso...?

Yeah, while we're used to the "washing machine" look for a dread, on this model the space between the shoulders and torso looks too blocky. If the shoulders could be pulled in, it would look more "right". More Tau battlesuit, less imperial dread, I guess.