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I note the way the force is built is that you have a primary detachment, which can include a small allied detachment, and then you are permitted optional further detachments as long as all minimums are met and you take account of how different legions play nicely or otherwise.

Q1: how common is taking more than one detachment? as I see it the moment you have four compulsory compliant troop choices and a pair of HQ there is basically no penalty for splitting into to detachments (which makes sense) providing further elite, heavy etc slots but at the cost of needing more basic stuff so more useful for larger games - with a note that for any after the first to have a rite of war applied they would also need a qualifying character (and that in some cases while this allows different rites of war its up to the player not to be flipping stupid and take ones that conflict with each other or cause problems) - e.g. a detachment on the table and a drop assault detachment

Q2: can you "ally" with yourself? e.g. have an allied detachment from the same legion? (in effect another company, small specialist unit etc), again meeting the minimums so now two HQ and three troops - not seeing anything that says this has to be from a different legion

in effect the allied bit being able to be a "half detachment" - where again a rite of war may or may not apply (I'd say it would but would have to bring all the good and the bad, and would require being the same legion, a different legion being nicely covered under the rules as they are)

for me not seeing anything that stops using multiple detachments (outside say an event pack saying "one primary detachment only" of course), not sure on the second one though

thoughts?

note this is resolved, there is a line in the rulebook the page before the org charts noting you only get one org chart so Q1 is a firm "no", Q2 is also a no, again elsewhere in the rulebook

Q2 should be a No, don't have my rulebook but IIRC it mentions a restriction that the Allied detachmemt can't be the same subfaction as the primary. If not then that's a fairly big oversight..

westiebestie is right - you can't take Allied Detachments from the same Legion (p.281). You also cannot run the different Mechanicum factions side-by-side, so no Taghmata alongside Knights.

sorted, that makes sense, though I'd say either way does depending how you phrase it or think of it

not a problem though given I'm likely to end up with four troops that can fit compulsory and more than 2 HQ anyway

beast_gts wrote:
westiebestie is right - you can't take Allied Detachments from the same Legion (p.281). You also cannot run the different Mechanicum factions side-by-side, so no Taghmata alongside Knights.

You can do Taghmata + Knights. You just have to have an Archmagos Prime with the Archinandrite order of High Techno-Arcana, as that allows you to have a Mechanicum Allied Detachment. And a Titan Maniple Detachment specifically doesn't "replace any other Optional Detachments in that Force Organization Slot". So it isn't an Allied Detachment, so Titans and/or Secutarii or good even without the Archinandrite Archmagos Prime.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
westiebestie is right - you can't take Allied Detachments from the same Legion (p.281). You also cannot run the different Mechanicum factions side-by-side, so no Taghmata alongside Knights.

You can do Taghmata + Knights. You just have to have an Archmagos Prime with the Archinandrite order of High Techno-Arcana, as that allows you to have a Mechanicum Allied Detachment. And a Titan Maniple Detachment specifically doesn't "replace any other Optional Detachments in that Force Organization Slot". So it isn't an Allied Detachment, so Titans and/or Secutarii or good even without the Archinandrite Archmagos Prime.

You're right about Archinandrite, but doesn't "The Divisio Tactica Mechanicum" on p.10 stop the others?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

leopard wrote:
Q1: how common is taking more than one detachment?

Where I play it's rare - I'm pretty much the only one. I play Iron Hands and often take Mechanicum allies (although a few people are talking about taking Space Wolves Black Watch).

beast_gts wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
westiebestie is right - you can't take Allied Detachments from the same Legion (p.281). You also cannot run the different Mechanicum factions side-by-side, so no Taghmata alongside Knights.

You can do Taghmata + Knights. You just have to have an Archmagos Prime with the Archinandrite order of High Techno-Arcana, as that allows you to have a Mechanicum Allied Detachment. And a Titan Maniple Detachment specifically doesn't "replace any other Optional Detachments in that Force Organization Slot". So it isn't an Allied Detachment, so Titans and/or Secutarii or good even without the Archinandrite Archmagos Prime.

You're right about Archinandrite, but doesn't "The Divisio Tactica Mechanicum" on p.10 stop the others?

Nope. It specifically calls out "Allies":

Each Magos ruler of such a Divisio is fiercely jealous of their secrets and each variant Divisio Tactica of the Mechanicum does not act as an alternative faction for the purposes of Allies, and no variant of the Mechanicum Army Lists may be allied with one another as part of the same army.

Emphasis mine.

So since a Titan Maniple isn't an Allied Detachment, it's good to go. And you still have the option to include an actual Allied Detachment, if you want.

leopard wrote:

Q1: how common is taking more than one detachment? as I see it the moment you have four compulsory compliant troop choices and a pair of HQ there is basically no penalty for splitting into to detachments (which makes sense) providing further elite, heavy etc slots but at the cost of needing more basic stuff so more useful for larger games - with a note that for any after the first to have a rite of war applied they would also need a qualifying character (and that in some cases while this allows different rites of war its up to the player not to be flipping stupid and take ones that conflict with each other or cause problems) - e.g. a detachment on the table and a drop assault detachment

You can't have more than one Primary detachment.

leopard wrote:
for me not seeing anything that stops using multiple detachments (outside say an event pack saying "one primary detachment only" of course), not sure on the second one though

thoughts?

Basing your judgement on "I wasn't told I couldn't do it" is not a sound choice as it will not win you friends and by the same logic people will do extremely stupid things to you in return just to be petty.
When you construct your army it is a single force. You pick a Force Org Chart and get the Detachments associated with that Chart. The rules state that if multiple Force Org Charts are available (such as Crusade or Leviathan from HH 1) to an army, you have to pick one.

Yeah you can't go taking multiple primaries friend

 Gert wrote:

leopard wrote:
for me not seeing anything that stops using multiple detachments (outside say an event pack saying "one primary detachment only" of course), not sure on the second one though

thoughts?

Basing your judgement on "I wasn't told I couldn't do it" is not a sound choice as it will not win you friends and by the same logic people will do extremely stupid things to you in return just to be petty.
When you construct your army it is a single force. You pick a Force Org Chart and get the Detachments associated with that Chart. The rules state that if multiple Force Org Charts are available (such as Crusade or Leviathan from HH 1) to an army, you have to pick one.

just noted the bit on a single chart, which is helpfully on a different page to the bit about selecting the chart.. renders the whole question moot as thats basically that.

in effect it becomes "yes but only by agreement/exception", which is fair enough, just hadn't seen the line buried in a longer paragraph on a different page..

my bad.

leopard wrote:
just noted the bit on a single chart, which is helpfully on a different page to the bit about selecting the chart.. renders the whole question moot as thats basically that.

If you didn't read the section on army building properly that's on you. All of the relevant rules are in order and grouped appropriately. The point about taking only one Force Org is literally the first paragraph on the relevant rules page.

Not 100% sure I'd say any of the rules are clearly and logically laid out to be honest, but whatever, found it in the end.

I asked specifically because I hadn't found it and was aware that people here would likely know, you know as a way to find out and get some direction as to where it is.

the terminology used doesn't help, a "primary detachment" implies secondary detachments, still nice that while its clearly stated as "no" the rest of the rules are written with "yes" being possible - presumably for larger more narrative games where such is negotiable, thats a nice touch.

still sorted, if only everything in life was so simple to clear up eh? and at least there has been no need to resort to "go and read the book, why should anyone else help" type of language, which is nice