Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Extreme but valid example?

Disability.

Not everyone can paint their models. And I’d rather take on unpainted models than “proxy” forces.

Disability is a legitimate reason but let's not pretend that disability is the reason in more than an incredibly tiny minority of cases. The vast majority of the time not painting is a deliberate refusal to paint, not that the person is unable to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why are they wrong to have fun?

Because if, as you acknowledge, everyone thinks painted models are better then you have a social obligation to do your part and provide that better experience. Refusing to paint is telling your opponent that you don't value their enjoyment of the game enough to meet that minimum standard.

I swear Aecus, you always seem to want to stir the pot and start drama.

Bottom line is let people paint if they want but otherwise leave it alone. If you choose not to play someone because they have unpainted minis that’s your choice, but don’t go labelling them as lazy or not doing the hobby correct because that just instills toxicity in a game that should be fun above all else.

 Snord wrote:
Still going with this? Has anyone won yet?

its a 4+ on a die to decide, trouble is no one knows if a re-roll is permitted or not

It's quite unfair to demand players to paint their armies without demanding to play from players with painted armies.

!!! Players unite, force the painters to play !!!
!!! Every painted army has to be played once a week or will be trashed !!!

Hard choice for those hardworking little bees; their armies being trashed or thrashed.

Or let's just be reasonable and let everybody go about the hobby as he/she/it likes - naaaaah, this is the internet after all.

DeathKorp_Rider makes a great point above.

I don't bother playing against players with unpainted armies. I've had to in a few Warmachine events a few years ago but I quit that game. I really appreciate that GW has the VPs + tournament painting requirements for Warhammer games.

It's a choice. I've taught a number of people to paint and I've painted a number of armies for commissions for players who have never touched a brush. It's however you want to do the hobby. I'm more into the art side and less into the 'ard boyz style of no-painting only -gaming

For 30k specifically it makes sense to only play painted as that game leans more on the fluff and visual.

Aecus I'm a slow painter, maybe 1 or 2 models finished per weekend are you honestly suggesting that I can't play until my entire army is painted? Now some weekends I may want to paint my Slaves to Darkness army or my Killteam forces, so it could be years before I get a playable painted army finished, am I just suppose to let my model sit unused because you deem it so?

Why would anyone want to play Warhammer / enter The Hobby if he doesn't want to paint / do the hobby ?
Do people enlist in the army if they don't want to go running ? Do they get a driving license and buy a car if they don't intend to drive ?
Do they buy swimsuits and go to the beach if they don't want to go swimming ?
Yes, obviously, there are people who collect cars (wealthy people indeed) and some that may go to the beach to just get a tan. In Warhammer, some people are very slow painters or, unfortunately, disabled. I chose those example of real life activities on purpose. But for the vast majority of people ? They fit. It's the same for 40k and 30k: you don't want to paint ? Why do you enter this specific hobby then ? It is explicitly a collecting and painting hobby with some games and rules. 30k even more than 40k (that unfortunately got desacralized and is now more or less considered like just a game of chess with pawns). Star wars games of probably others have wonderful painted models waiting for you !

 godardc wrote:
Why would anyone want to play Warhammer / enter The Hobby if he doesn't want to paint / do the hobby ?
Do people enlist in the army if they don't want to go running ? Do they get a driving license and buy a car if they don't intend to drive ?
Do they buy swimsuits and go to the beach if they don't want to go swimming ?
Yes, obviously, there are people who collect cars (wealthy people indeed) and some that may go to the beach to just get a tan. In Warhammer, some people are very slow painters or, unfortunately, disabled. I chose those example of real life activities on purpose. But for the vast majority of people ? They fit. It's the same for 40k and 30k: you don't want to paint ? Why do you enter this specific hobby then ? It is explicitly a collecting and painting hobby with some games and rules. 30k even more than 40k (that unfortunately got desacralized and is now more or less considered like just a game of chess with pawns). Star wars games of probably others have wonderful painted models waiting for you !

Because we enjoy other parts of the hobby.
It’s not complicated-I find the game and the friends that come with it fun. I don’t find painting fun.

I think we are all missing the most important question here.

we all know where this is going

admit it

you don't always use the 'correct' primer do you?

 godardc wrote:
Why would anyone want to play Warhammer / enter The Hobby if he doesn't want to paint / do the hobby ?
Do people enlist in the army if they don't want to go running ? Do they get a driving license and buy a car if they don't intend to drive ?
Do they buy swimsuits and go to the beach if they don't want to go swimming ?
Yes, obviously, there are people who collect cars (wealthy people indeed) and some that may go to the beach to just get a tan. In Warhammer, some people are very slow painters or, unfortunately, disabled. I chose those example of real life activities on purpose. But for the vast majority of people ? They fit. It's the same for 40k and 30k: you don't want to paint ? Why do you enter this specific hobby then ? It is explicitly a collecting and painting hobby with some games and rules. 30k even more than 40k (that unfortunately got desacralized and is now more or less considered like just a game of chess with pawns). Star wars games of probably others have wonderful painted models waiting for you !

Because Star Wars sucks. And GW games don’t have a giant fething sign saying “Don’t play if you have no intention of painting.” Just because you have unrealistic expectations of how other people enjoy the game doesn’t mean we have to meet them. We are free to enjoy the hobby how we want, and some of us don’t want to paint.

 godardc wrote:
Why would anyone want to play Warhammer / enter The Hobby if he doesn't want to paint / do the hobby ?

Should people who paint/collect have to play too? Do they also need to meet a quota of how many games they should be playing per month? Per year? After all, why would they enter the hobby if they don't want to "do" the hobby?

Or, perhaps there's a simpler answer - let people enjoy things the way they want to, and don't get in a tizzy when someone wants to enjoy themselves differently.

Do they get a driving license[...]if they don't intend to drive ?

Actually, let's just leave that at just the driving license, and that's absolutely correct, and what most people tend to do. It give them a form of identification. *I* have a driving license, but have no intention of driving anything more than a handful of times a year, using other people's vehicles. Just because I can drive doesn't mean I need to.

Do they buy swimsuits and go to the beach if they don't want to go swimming ?

Yes. They might not WANT to swim, but they might prefer to wear the right attire, to tan, for example.

You're choosing some poor examples here, because you'll find that they're pretty common.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Why would anyone want to play Warhammer / enter The Hobby if he doesn't want to paint / do the hobby ?

Should people who paint/collect have to play too? Do they also need to meet a quota of how many games they should be playing per month? Per year? After all, why would they enter the hobby if they don't want to "do" the hobby?

Or, perhaps there's a simpler answer - let people enjoy things the way they want to, and don't get in a tizzy when someone wants to enjoy themselves differently.

Do they get a driving license[...]if they don't intend to drive ?

Actually, let's just leave that at just the driving license, and that's absolutely correct, and what most people tend to do. It give them a form of identification. *I* have a driving license, but have no intention of driving anything more than a handful of times a year, using other people's vehicles. Just because I can drive doesn't mean I need to.

Do they buy swimsuits and go to the beach if they don't want to go swimming ?

Yes. They might not WANT to swim, but they might prefer to wear the right attire, to tan, for example.

You're choosing some poor examples here, because you'll find that they're pretty common.

I...chose good examples here, on purpose. You should really read why people write before answering

 godardc wrote:
I...chose good examples here, on purpose. You should really read why people write before answering

So why mention them? All they do is undermine your argument. Plus, you mention that these are exceptions to a "vast majority" - which simply isn't true.

Speaking of not reading, and not responding accordingly, why no response about your expectation for those who only paint? When are you going to enforce that they play? How often?

 Strg Alt wrote:
Just ask one simple question:

Would the game be more fun, if the minis were painted? Everybody would agree on that. So not painting is a choice to be lazy and please spare me the exceptions where you have blind gamers, colourblind gamers or gamers with no arms.

Or new players?
I've just started. I still haven't finished building everything. Scraping the plastic mold lines off 14 tiny pieces per 1 toy soldier before building a squad of 10 of them takes time. Never mind the time it takes for painting. It might take me 2-3 years to finish my army. That's a long time to wait to play a game.

I personally allow unpainted figures in my games, as long as in the next game, there's a few more painted.