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This card is clearly about the coming of a new primarch. Question is which one.

Blonde hair it could be the lion but is the lion lost? So it could be any of the lost primarchs. However it looks very cherub like so it could be sanguinius. He is lost to all in that he is dead.

Some are saying that the numerals indicate that it’s lorgar but I think GW is more likely to give us Guilliman, the lion, russ and sanguinius as this chapter have the most attention historically and GW is clearly going for 4 demon primarchs (at least)

mrFickle wrote:
This card is clearly about the coming of a new primarch. Question is which one.

Blonde hair it could be the lion but is the lion lost? So it could be any of the lost primarchs. However it looks very cherub like so it could be sanguinius. He is lost to all in that he is dead.

Some are saying that the numerals indicate that it’s lorgar but I think GW is more likely to give us Guilliman, the lion, russ and sanguinius as this chapter have the most attention historically and GW is clearly going for 4 demon primarchs (at least)

The Lion lived in the forests of Caliban as a literal 'lost Child' for about 50 years. This was also at a time when Caliban lost all contact to wider humanity, in a period often called 'Old Night'.

The art style is aiming to be European Medieval, which also ties into the Lion.

as much as i'd like it to be glorious hawk boi, the fact that the background is all shades of green, and there are no wings in any manner, and no allusions to blood anywhere makes it very unlikely.

it's the lion.

Finally, Dave Baneblade and the Lost Legion will get the attention they deserve.

Lions back in black

Tsagualsa wrote:
This was also at a time when Caliban lost all contact to wider humanity, in a period often called 'Old Night'.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the lion coming back but old night is the period where all of the far flung elements of humanity lost contact with earth. It's not a dark angels centric element of the background.

Also, bleugh... and do we really need or want more primarchs. They can stay lost!!

I'd love for both The Lion and Luthor to come back and be friends again. (A shocking twist, I know.) Get the band back together and all that good stuff. DA's returning to Legion strength, could be fun.

Could it be the star child lost in the warp?? (Hope so but doubt it).

The Black Adder wrote:

Also, bleugh... and do we really need or want more primarchs. They can stay lost!!

Agree 1000%

a summary of the Primarchs and their currently known fates

Loyalist:

Lion El'Jonson - Alive, sleeping in The Rock.

Jaghatai Khan - Believed Alive, vanished into the Webway

Leman Russ - Believed alive, vanished into the Eye of Terror

Rogal Dorn - Presumed dead, disappeared while aboard a Chaos warship during a black crusade in M31. (possibly 1st black crusade?) only his hand was found.

Sanguinius - Confirmed dead

Ferrus Manus - Confirmed Dead

Roboute Guilliman - Alive, acting head of the Imperium

Vulkan - Beleived Dead, but not for the first time.

Corvus Corax - believed alive, vanished into the eye of terror.

Traitor:

Fulgrim - transformed into Demon Prince

Perturabo - transformed into Demon Prince

Konrad Curze - Confirmed Dead

Angron - Transformed into Demon Prince

Mortarion - Transformed into Demon prince

Magnus the Red - Transformed into demon Prince

Horus Lupercal - confirmed dead

Lorgar Aurelian - Transformed into Demon Prince

Alpharius Omegon - Ambiguous; Alpharius believed dead, Omegon believed Alive.

so going by this, and assuming it is a loyalist returning, The Lion, Jagatai, Corax, and Vulkan are all potential candidates. of those, the Lion seems to be the most likely, given his status is known, and he is in position to immediately effect events.

The Black Adder wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
This was also at a time when Caliban lost all contact to wider humanity, in a period often called 'Old Night'.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the lion coming back but old night is the period where all of the far flung elements of humanity lost contact with earth. It's not a dark angels centric element of the background.

Also, bleugh... and do we really need or want more primarchs. They can stay lost!!

imo primarchs are a pandora's box. i would have preferred if there were never any primarchs to come back. now that there are i think it's gakky that this many years later only the smurfs have a primarch, and for the chapters with dead primarchs, a greater demon style character thats possessed by their primarch is a good stand in.

mrFickle wrote:
This card is clearly about the coming of a new primarch. Question is which one.

Blonde hair it could be the lion but is the lion lost? So it could be any of the lost primarchs. However it looks very cherub like so it could be sanguinius. He is lost to all in that he is dead.

Some are saying that the numerals indicate that it’s lorgar but I think GW is more likely to give us Guilliman, the lion, russ and sanguinius as this chapter have the most attention historically and GW is clearly going for 4 demon primarchs (at least)

Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch. But he's not one of the Chaos Big Four. They'll do each side's Big Four (Or the Elite Eight for basketball fans) before they do any secondaries I suspect, if just for $ per Shelf Space.


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johnpjones1775 wrote:


imo primarchs are a pandora's box. i would have preferred if there were never any primarchs to come back. now that there are i think it's gakky that this many years later only the smurfs have a primarch, and for the chapters with dead primarchs, a greater demon style character thats possessed by their primarch is a good stand in.

Yeah, I think they've drug their feet way too long bringing them back. And yes, I've seen a few work arounds for (most of) the dead primarchs. Ferrus made a Dreadnaught and downloaded his conciousness into it as a Safeguard. All the Black Rage will coalesce onto the Sanguinor turing him into Sanguinor-ius, and so on. The toughest two to bring back will be Konrad and Horus. Alpharius and games within games is easy. I'm not sure I agree that Vulkan is believed dead, given the whole Vulkan Hestan find the lost artifacts thing. They've already been to the well with Horus and destroyed his soul - best they can do is probably a Cawl creates a new Horus from scratch and history repeats itself - some version of the loyalists don't trust him, the traitors use that to subvert him (which is easier because of his own Ego keeping the nature-vs-nurture both-sides-isms going in the theme) Badda Boom Badda Bing - Warmaster. There's no way around Konrad wanting to be dead other than a VERY lazy and convenient new prophecy where he always knew he would be brought back or faked his death or some such -

Konrad is dead. Konrad wanted to die. Leave him the alone.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Konrad is dead. Konrad wanted to die. Leave him the alone.

That was kind of my point, he's the toughest to bring back, because he wanted to die, and if they bring him back, that probably invalidates his prophecy and he lived for that, so he'd just want to die even more - vicious cycle stuff. Even bringing something LIKE him back runs into issues.

Breton wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Konrad is dead. Konrad wanted to die. Leave him the alone.

That was kind of my point, he's the toughest to bring back, because he wanted to die, and if they bring him back, that probably invalidates his prophecy and he lived for that, so he'd just want to die even more - vicious cycle stuff. Even bringing something LIKE him back runs into issues.

I wasn't really disagreeing with you. Just offering a viewpoint from a long term and dedicated Night Lords player/fan. Curze's death is intrinsic to the Legion's identity. I don't want it changed, personally. No argument meant, Breton.

The less primarchs playable, the better. Make kits for the collectors and leave it at that. They are heroes & villains of a long gone age. Humanity's biggest hope and downfall. They belong into the background. The aftermath of the Heresy is one of the big defining factors for the lore.

Leave the dead ones dead.

Konrad's arguably the easiest to ressurect.
"Yeah, that whole video with the assassin? I faked it. Not quite sure what part of deranged pychopathic serial killer made you think I was a reliable narrator."

Frankly a lot less soft than "magic life support machine starts working" or "I was lost on a farm in the warp/webway for 10k years but now I'm back."

Tyel wrote:
Konrad's arguably the easiest to ressurect.
"Yeah, that whole video with the assassin? I faked it. Not quite sure what part of deranged pychopathic serial killer made you think I was a reliable narrator."

Frankly a lot less soft than "magic life support machine starts working" or "I was lost on a farm in the warp/webway for 10k years but now I'm back."

They also gave Konrad a crown that possibly contains an empty spirit stone in one of the Heresy Stories, so his soul could easily have been preserved and be available for all sorts of shenanigans if they wanted to go down that road.

It’s sci fi fantasy, they can resurrect anyone they want or do something crazier. However we have 2 dead loyalists and 2 dead traitors I think they will leave it at that. I think once we have 4 loyalists and 4 traitors were more likely to see the missing primarchs show up

My two cents on this:

It is not the Lion.

- I truly believe that Valrak's rumour videos and his wish for more Primarchs have created such confirmation bias in the community that the latest card could've shown Khaine and people would still clamour the return of El' Johnson.

- The Lion isn't fatherless since the emperor is still on Terra and Luther is literally roaming free.

- Saying it depicts him in the past is not how these cards work - All of them depict future events.

- The background is filled with Golden motives, from stars to frills, yet people are convinced it's green.

- It looks medieval - Everything in the Imperium looks medieval. The Second card also had a medieval theme, yet it is about Abbadon.

It is definitely not Lorgar.

- The number doesn't mean anything besides the order of the cards. The Fool should be a zero, yet it is number 15 in the tarot.

Most likely candidate in my opinion; Dante...

- Fatherless son; Sanguinius is dead.

- Alone in the Endless night; Imperium Nihilus

- Blonde Curled-haired child draped in red cloth; It is so "Blood Angels"-y, it hurts.

I'm not saying the Lion cannot appear in the fifth book, but this card doesn't hint at anything related to the Lion besides blonde hair and what people see as a green background. I find even the Sanguinor being a better possibility than El' Johnson.


Of course, this is also based upon my conjecture of things, but some people are really stretching at stuff to make it be biased to their wishes.

Even I'm biased; I don't want more Primarchs, and I'm only going to break to accepting this book involving the El'Johnson once one of the cards depicts either an actual lion or a black-armoured knight.

I think you are right, we’ve had enough info about the lion returning that I think this card is something else and it relates to the blood angels. I think we will get a wolf related card that people will be able to interpret as something to do with space wolves or the Luna wolves but it will be russ. It makes sense that russ could be held captive or just camping out of the arks and surprise!

I don’t know much about the sangiunor but sanguinius’s spirirt could have been lost in the warp and exit the warp on an ark aswell

mrFickle wrote:
I think you are right, we’ve had enough info about the lion returning that I think this card is something else and it relates to the blood angels. I think we will get a wolf related card that people will be able to interpret as something to do with space wolves or the Luna wolves but it will be russ. It makes sense that russ could be held captive or just camping out of the arks and surprise!

I don’t know much about the sangiunor but sanguinius’s spirirt could have been lost in the warp and exit the warp on an ark aswell

There are Warp Imprints / Psychic Echoes / Weird Phantoms of Sanguinius spooking about on the Vengeful Spirit, which coincidentially is Abaddon's Flagship most of the time. If you wanted to have him back, that would be one way you could go about it.

The Sanguinor's background has been explained in the Heresy novels by now, it's not the soul of Sanguinius, but a more complicated thing.

This card is cypher. (Not sure how to post a pick here) if you look closely and pause as the card is coming out you can see a faint lion in the space clouds. Also if you look closely you can see that the original art of the card had the baby holding somthin in his hands. Judging from their positioning was a scabbard with sword in it. GW edited that out as it make the card a little to easy to figure out.

Anyways this card is about cypher. We will see what next week bring but I would expect the lion to be the conclusion of the 5th book and so he will be the last card.

The rumour source Valrak uses predicted new Azrael and Farsight, which we have seen (the latter in silhouette) also predicted a new Dante model.
This is Dante.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I wasn't really disagreeing with you. Just offering a viewpoint from a long term and dedicated Night Lords player/fan. Curze's death is intrinsic to the Legion's identity. I don't want it changed, personally. No argument meant, Breton.

Not all of the bringbacks can or should be direct returns. It would be a little too General Hospitaller to bring back so many Primarchs from the dead with a little cloning or a new incubation. Ferrus as a Super Dread, Sanguinius possessing the Sanguinor making the Sanguinor-ius more powerful and stable. That's not undoing their deaths with a plot armored finger wave really. And I kind of like the idea of Sanguinor-ius being a double-edged sword so to speak for the Lion and G. They get a ghostly brother back, but its also a constant reminder that he died while they weren't there. But not only is resurrecting Konrad difficult - though the spirit stone thing has potential - I can see him wanting to somehow cheat and yet still have the death so he could come back with a giant "I told you so" thing - but for the most part that's an uphill fluff to write.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrFickle wrote:
I think you are right, we’ve had enough info about the lion returning that I think this card is something else and it relates to the blood angels. I think we will get a wolf related card that people will be able to interpret as something to do with space wolves or the Luna wolves but it will be russ. It makes sense that russ could be held captive or just camping out of the arks and surprise!

I don’t know much about the sangiunor but sanguinius’s spirirt could have been lost in the warp and exit the warp on an ark aswell

That's probably the best approach I've seen. We've already got a whole lot of Lion clues, and Dante is bound to cross the Rubicon himself someday soon.

Can't be a dark angel without the color green

Have you seen the Dante leak? I guess that’s what this card was. It looks like Dante has had his rubicon upgrade but nothing as exciting as the sanguinor

mrFickle wrote:
Have you seen the Dante leak? I guess that’s what this card was. It looks like Dante has had his rubicon upgrade but nothing as exciting as the sanguinor

How is Dante the lost child? He's one of the oldest space marines in current lore, and essentially warden of the north in the imperium and very active. Nothing seems too lost about that to me?