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Hello all! It feels super good to be back in this hobby!

Im returning player who is familiar with rules of 6-7th edition or older(if i recall right).

But im just little bit confused what rulebooks i should get now. There is core rulebook(right?) and arks of omen and stuff. Also detachments and how to build army is little confusing to me now.

Also im a "OG" Chaos Khorne enjoyer, but id like to play khorne chaos with "normal chaos codex" (not the world eaters one, even thou they seem pretty powerfull). So my guestions would be:

1) What material i should read/buy to know rules how to build different Chaos Armies?

2) Is it possible to play Khorne Juggernaut Lord and Kharn the betrayer with normal chaos codex?(not the world eaters one)

3) Is it possible to use Flesh Hounds in "normal" chaos codex and/or world eaters chaos codex. (i found you can add daemons to chaos armies with daemonic pact rule, but i dont know if this goes for only normal chaos codex or if you can use it with world eaters too.)

Sorry my message is little bit confusing probably, but im really confused myself xd and i dont understand the rules and restrictions to build chaos army.

My "dream team would be" army where i can play Chaos Juggernaut Lord, Kharn the Betrayer, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and cultists in same team(i know its not probably powerplay option at all, but i just wanna play models i think are cool and interesting for me).

Thank you all for the possible answers! I hope you all are safe and well!

I wouldnt buy anything right now, because in about 4 months a new edition is supposed to be released, or at least announced. The rumoured release date is june/july. Its possible that we see a sneak peak at the warhammer fest 2023 which is in 2 month.

Now to answer your questions.

1. CSM codex, chaos daemons codex, big rulebook, world eaters codex, current FAQs, and balance dataslate found on warhammer community.
2. No, you cant.
3. You can play flesh hounds with CSM codex and world eaters codex by including a daemon patrol.

You can play your dream team, but, as you said, its not the best powerplay option.

Hey, thank you for answers!

You can play your dream team, but, as you said, its not the best powerplay option.

Could you say under which faction/codex i can play this team with? (Chaos Juggernaut Lord, Kharn the Betrayer, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and cultists)

1) the chaos codex gives you rules for the different legions. There is an index article from white dwarf on the extra rules for world eaters, however I would suggest this is NOT legal any longer. This is where you find Kharne and Bezerkers as they are NOT in the chaos dex.
2) see above. There is no jugger lord at all on the index article, just kharne. So, no.
3) you can add a small daemons detachment to either chaos dex or world eaters without breaking their army wide super ability. You can also use the "disciples of the red angel" rules from the world eaters codex to include khorne daemons in a single detachment led by Angron, with a flaming special character jugger or the normal jugger lord (the sc is so much better as he flies) plus khorne daemon units from the daemon codex and the world eater book

Your dream build is not possible if you want to be gaining all the benefits of being world eaters. . There is no way to have a jugger lord in a detachment alongside plague marines, or a plague marine detachment and a world eaters detachment, and gain the main faction bonus of each.

As you were around in 7th the concept of detachments isn't new to you, however the big change since then is the ability that armies gain from being "pure" Faction only.

Think of this as layers

Firstly you build a detachment - force org. If you want to play matched play this is ONLY the special Arks of Omen detachment plus an auxiliary or patrol. So, very limited

You build a detachment how you would expect - pick units from codex according to sensible rules such as they must have a keyword in common, for example heretic astartes. There are special unaligned units that can be included in some armies, plus agents of chaos (agents of imperium would be inquisitors, navis nobilite etc, you have Abaddon as the main agent of chaos rn) .

Your detachment needs to have all world eaters faction keyword in order to gain ObSec, access to stratagems and relics etc.

Then you consider your army. If every unit is either world eaters or unaligned or agent of chaos, you get a super ability - the blood tithe. Similar idea to daemonkin army of old. Really, really powerful.

It's very much more complicated!

As for what to buy - up to you really.


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What you haven't found is the idea of how detachments require you to have a key word in common, and what that keyword can and can't be. Keywords are CRITICAL to understand in 9th.

To have plague marines in a detachment with jugger lords, you're buying
- world eaters codex
- DG codex

And building a franken detachment. It can only contains units that ALL share a faction keyword, that keyword cannot be chaos. So, probably heretic astartes. But that means you can't have units withiut the heretic astartes units.

Thank you Nosferatu 1001, for your long and clarifing answer. I really appreciate the time you took to write me this long answer, for so so many guestions.

Are warhammer legends rules, "official?"? I was thinking, if i could play normal csm codex, with "warhammer legends" Khorne juggernaut Lord, and add berzerkers + plaguer marines that way in the same army?

What you haven't found is the idea of how detachments require you to have a key word in common, and what that keyword can and can't be. Keywords are CRITICAL to understand in 9th.

Ooh, i see. Now im starting to catch up a little bit better. I have to look more for these detachments rules,

SwampHound wrote:
Hey, thank you for answers!

You can play your dream team, but, as you said, its not the best powerplay option.

Could you say under which faction/codex i can play this team with? (Chaos Juggernaut Lord, Kharn the Betrayer, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and cultists)

If you play matched play you need the CSM codex and world eaters codex. You would have a CSM detachment where your plague marines and cultists are and a world eaters detachment where the rest is. Your dream team isnt possible with the latest AoO GT book.


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SwampHound wrote:
Thank you Nosferatu 1001, for your long and clarifing answer. I really appreciate the time you took to write me this long answer, for so so many guestions.

Are warhammer legends rules, "official?"? I was thinking, if i could play normal csm codex, with "warhammer legends" Khorne juggernaut Lord, and add berzerkers + plaguer marines that way in the same army?

Legends are legal to play. You can do that as you said.

If you play matched play you need the CSM codex and world eaters codex. You would have a CSM detachment where your plague marines and cultists are and a world eaters detachment where the rest is. Your dream team isnt possible with the latest AoO GT book.

Oki, oki! Very good to know. I want to build army with the newest rules and if thats not possible(which seems to be the case), i will figure out something new and cool for my Chaos army,

SwampHound wrote:

If you play matched play you need the CSM codex and world eaters codex. You would have a CSM detachment where your plague marines and cultists are and a world eaters detachment where the rest is. Your dream team isnt possible with the latest AoO GT book.

Oki, oki! Very good to know. I want to build army with the newest rules and if thats not possible(which seems to be the case), i will figure out something new and cool for my Chaos army,

TO BE CLEAR:

Your Dream Team isn't possible in the current GT format. Outside of that, it's perfectly legit.

Hey, i have been reading rules about detachments, and im starting to understand how they work little bit more. For some reason Chaos detachments make my brain little bit confused.

So could someone give me example how i could fit Flesh Hounds of Khorne into a world eater army?

Lets say i build my Khorne army under Vanguard Detachment with the HQ and minium amount of units it needs.

Now, how i include Khorne flesh hounds?

Can i just take them somehow with demonict pact rule, or i have to take new detachment(with Daemon HQ, minium amount of units, and THEN i can include flesh hounds?)

So my guestion would be: Is it possible to just play World Eaters, and include unit of Flesh Hounds, without taking other demons in my army?

EDIT: I would appreciate very highly, if someone could make little example of world eaters army, where flesh hounds are included.

Thanks for the possible answers!

Its pretty simple. You would build your world eater detachment as normal, and then add a second detachment of chaos daemons, an outrider detachment, for example. There you would add one daemon HQ and up to six fast attack daemon choices as you would normally do. This detachment must be less than 25% PL of your entire army if you want to keep your special rules for a pure world eaters army.

Daemonic Pact
If your army includes one LEGIONES DAEMONICA Detachment, and the combined Power Ratings of all units in that Detachment make up no more than 25% of your army’s Power Level, then until the end of the battle, every unit in that Detachment gains the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword. If a BE’LAKOR unit is included in that Detachment, this ability has no effect.
The inclusion of LEGIONES DAEMONICA AGENT OF CHAOS KHORNE units in your army does not prevent WORLD EATERS units in your army from using any rules that require every model in your army to have the same keyword.

Here is a sample army. The PL of the daemon detachment is 20, which is less than 25% of the entire PL, which is 82.

P5 missed that you can include fleshhounds as they have thr KHORNE faction keyword in common with units from the world eaters codex. As such you can include khorne dameons within the SAME detachment as your zerkers


However there is a MAJOR downside. If you do that, you are not a world eaters detachment. This means you do not get a whole host of benefits. You're also not a world eaters army, so you don't get blood tithe either.


If you however have the daemons in a second detachment, keeping the first entirely WE units, then you have
- a WE detachment
And
- a daemons detachment

Meaning you get the detachment bonuses of each. Read the codex to see what these are


IN ADDITION if you keep the daekons detachment to under 25% of the PL of the entire army, you ALSO gain the "daemonic pact" benefits ie you now count as a pure WE army, and get to have the blood tithe bonus

P5 missed that you can include fleshhounds as they have thr KHORNE faction keyword in common with units from the world eaters codex. As such you can include khorne dameons within the SAME detachment as your zerkers

Thank you so much for the answer!

It's very nice to know there is still way to include Khorne FleshHounds in WE army because i happen to like those miniatures a lot!

Here is a sample army. The PL of the daemon detachment is 20, which is less than 25% of the entire PL, which is 82.

Thank you for the sample armylist, i think im finally getting hang of this.

Big thanks for you guys, who have been very patient with me, and helped me a lot with the new rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
P5 missed that you can include fleshhounds as they have thr KHORNE faction keyword in common with units from the world eaters codex. As such you can include khorne dameons within the SAME detachment as your zerkers


However there is a MAJOR downside. If you do that, you are not a world eaters detachment. This means you do not get a whole host of benefits. You're also not a world eaters army, so you don't get blood tithe either.

I "missed" that on purpose. It makes no sense to make a KHORNE detachment.

Here is a sample army. The PL of the daemon detachment is 20, which is less than 25% of the entire PL, which is 82.

Thats such a good example list! I didn't even know that there was that three-headed doggo miniature called Karanak!

I dont care about playpower, but i will get that figure for sure, so he can lead my flesh hounds to battle!

Im already so excited to get to paint him. I hope my local shop still has him.

Thx!

 p5freak wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
P5 missed that you can include fleshhounds as they have thr KHORNE faction keyword in common with units from the world eaters codex. As such you can include khorne dameons within the SAME detachment as your zerkers


However there is a MAJOR downside. If you do that, you are not a world eaters detachment. This means you do not get a whole host of benefits. You're also not a world eaters army, so you don't get blood tithe either.

I "missed" that on purpose. It makes no sense to make a KHORNE detachment.

It is by no means an option that makes sense from a most power sense. But, as the op has made clear multiple times, they. Don't. Care. About. Power.

And you absolutely did miss it, even if it was on purpose.

SwampHound wrote:

Here is a sample army. The PL of the daemon detachment is 20, which is less than 25% of the entire PL, which is 82.

Thats such a good example list! I didn't even know that there was that three-headed doggo miniature called Karanak!

I dont care about playpower, but i will get that figure for sure, so he can lead my flesh hounds to battle!

Im already so excited to get to paint him. I hope my local shop still has him.

Thx!

I did include karanak on purpose, because he is the flesh hound leader, glad you like it. Its both fluffy and powerful. List optimization is never wrong, even if you dont care about power.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:

It is by no means an option that makes sense from a most power sense. But, as the op has made clear multiple times, they. Don't. Care. About. Power.

And you absolutely did miss it, even if it was on purpose.

I always look for good synergy, cant help it.

As a note, if you only desire 1 unit of Flesh Hounds, the Auxiliary Support Detachment is there for your single unit Daemonic Pact detachment needs.

 alextroy wrote:
As a note, if you only desire 1 unit of Flesh Hounds, the Auxiliary Support Detachment is there for your single unit Daemonic Pact detachment needs.

Oooh.... that sounds so cool! Can i take this detachment without losing my blood tithe special rule?


EDIT: I looked auxialirity support detachment up, little bit heavy on CP, but it is very nice to know, that you can do something like this too with detachments!

Yep, as long as it is less than 25% of your pl total.

If you play AoO GT all detachments cost 0 CP. But there are limitations what detachments you can add.

Correct me, if im wrong:

If i play Arks of Omen GT, then i can take Arks of Omen Detachment for my World Eaters.

Then i want to include Flesh Hounds and Karanak to my army, i - have to - take patrol detachment for my Daemons of Khorne?

This means i have to take 1 HQ and 1 Troops, to include my Flesh Hounds?

Is there away to include just Flesh Hounds, or Karanak + Flesh Hounds without taking extra Daemon troops and/or losing blood tithe special rule?

It's really clear what detachments you're allowed to take using ark of omen gt pack. There's no way round it IF you are using this pack.

Your can build a KHORNE AoO detachment. There you can mix units from the world eater and daemon codex with the KHORNE faction keyword. But you will lose all special rules for a pure world eaters army, no blood tithe, no warp storm abilities for daemons.

You have two choices, lose all special rules with a KHORNE AoO detachment, or include a daemon patrol detachment which requires one HQ and one troop choice.

 p5freak wrote:
Your can build a KHORNE AoO detachment. There you can mix units from the world eater and daemon codex with the KHORNE faction keyword. But you will lose all special rules for a pure world eaters army, no blood tithe, no warp storm abilities for daemons.

You have two choices, lose all special rules with a KHORNE AoO detachment, or include a daemon patrol detachment which requires one HQ and one troop choice.

Thank you so much again for clearing this up!

I think i should have almost unopened box of 10 bloodletters somewhere around my house lying around... maybe i saw the a climbs of future in the past, and now i can maybe try 10 of them out, and play with them to include my khorne dogster to WE army, hopefully bloodletters are atleast ok unit to play.

Thanks!

Blood letters are fine, and if you want to take angron he has the warp locus ability. Let's you deepstrike the letters very very close to an enemy

And Karanak's an HQ, so it's not like you need take a Herald you don't want.

Hey!

My World Eaters army project is progressing nicely! And i really love the khorne dog miniatures,

New guestion: I don't see Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought in WE codex, but i saw battle report where someone was using Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought in hes army. (I assume they were using official rules) but i dont know how he was able to use this unit? I dont see him in the WE codex.

Id like to include Leviathan in my army, but i dont understand if its possible within the newest rules or not.

So can i include Leviathan in my army, and if yes, how?

Leviathan Dreadnoughts are in the Forge World Imperial Armour Compendium book.

....which has received the necessary errata to make it possible to field select units as part of a we army


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....which has received the necessary errata to make it possible to field select units as part of WE army