Custodies + Freeblade ?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**khsofsos**

Hi everyone

Quick couple of questions.

If I take a Freeblade Knight as an Auxiliary in a Custodes army do I lose anything. Eg Ka’tahs or other rules.

Does the Freeblade count as Mechanicus or Imperialis. ?

Thanks.

**alextroy**

This should answer your question.

WANDERING HERO
Freeblades often wander the galaxy, aiding the armies of the Imperium as they can against the enemies that surround the Emperor’s realm.

If this Detachment is a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment that contains one FREEBLADE unit, until the end of the battle, that unit gains the AGENT OF THE IMPERIUM keyword. Only one FREEBLADE unit in your army can have this keyword.

MARTIAL KA’TAH
If every unit from your army has the ADEPTUS CUSTODES keyword (excluding ANATHEMA PSYKANA, AGENT OF THE IMPERIUM and UNALIGNED units), and every unit that is assigned to a shield host is assigned to the same shield host, this unit can use this ability and the following rules apply.

**KingGarland**

A freeblade get neither the Questor Mechanicus keyword or the Questor Imperialis keyword so it does not count as either.

**p5freak**

KingGarland wrote:
A freeblade get neither the Questor Mechanicus keyword or the Questor Imperialis keyword so it does not count as either.

Wrong.

THE <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> KEYWORD
Many datasheets in this section have the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword. This is another keyword that you can select for yourself, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book, with the guidance detailed below.
All IMPERIAL KNIGHTS units owe allegiance to the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. When you include a unit with the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in your army, after you have chosen its <NOBLE HOUSEHOLD> keyword, you must then do one of the following:
If your unit is from HOUSE TERRYN, HOUSE HAWKSHROUD, HOUSE GRIFFITH, HOUSE CADMUS or HOUSE MORTAN, it owes its allegiance to the Imperium, and you must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with QUESTOR IMPERIALIS.
If your unit is from HOUSE RAVEN, HOUSE TARANIS, HOUSE KRAST or HOUSE VULKER, it owes its allegiance to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and you must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with QUESTOR MECHANICUS.
If your unit is from any other noble house, or if it has the FREEBLADE keyword, you must nominate whether it owes allegiance to the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. You must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with either QUESTOR IMPERIALIS or QUESTOR MECHANICUS respectively.

**khsofsos**

p5freak wrote:
KingGarland wrote:
A freeblade get neither the Questor Mechanicus keyword or the Questor Imperialis keyword so it does not count as either.

Wrong.

THE <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> KEYWORD
Many datasheets in this section have the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword. This is another keyword that you can select for yourself, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book, with the guidance detailed below.
All IMPERIAL KNIGHTS units owe allegiance to the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. When you include a unit with the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in your army, after you have chosen its <NOBLE HOUSEHOLD> keyword, you must then do one of the following:
If your unit is from HOUSE TERRYN, HOUSE HAWKSHROUD, HOUSE GRIFFITH, HOUSE CADMUS or HOUSE MORTAN, it owes its allegiance to the Imperium, and you must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with QUESTOR IMPERIALIS.
If your unit is from HOUSE RAVEN, HOUSE TARANIS, HOUSE KRAST or HOUSE VULKER, it owes its allegiance to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and you must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with QUESTOR MECHANICUS.
If your unit is from any other noble house, or if it has the FREEBLADE keyword, you must nominate whether it owes allegiance to the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. You must replace the <QUESTOR ALLEGIANCE> keyword in every instance on its datasheet with either QUESTOR IMPERIALIS or QUESTOR MECHANICUS respectively.

Thank you for answering this part.

Any ideas on my first question

**Niiai**

They did awnser the first question.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I am wrong.

**alextroy**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, you cannot take A Custodes force and a Freeblade, and keep Pure Custodes buffs. Thats been a rule since the soup nazis of 8th. Soup is NOT back on the menu.

You better go back and read post 2 of this thread again.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

alextroy wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, you cannot take A Custodes force and a Freeblade, and keep Pure Custodes buffs. Thats been a rule since the soup nazis of 8th. Soup is NOT back on the menu.
You better go back and read post 2 of this thread again.

'Yup, I misread it. I got to "Every unit must" and just assumed. Ass move on my part.

**alextroy**

Pesky rules making you read every word

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

**U02dah4**

BATTLE BROTHERS
If your Arks of Omen Detachment is an IMPERIUM Detachment, you can include one of the following as an Allied Detachment: one AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM Auxiliary Support or Patrol Detachment; one IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (containing one FREEBLADE unit); one VOTANN Patrol Detachment.

WANDERING HERO
Freeblades often wander the galaxy, aiding the armies of the Imperium as they can against the enemies that surround the Emperor’s realm.

If this Detachment is a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment that contains one FREEBLADE unit, until the end of the battle, that unit gains the AGENT OF THE IMPERIUM keyword. Only one FREEBLADE unit in your army can have this keyword.

You take the knight it is a super heavy auxilary it can be mechanicus or imperialis but must be a freeblade.

The knight counts as agent if the imperium so you lose nothing from custodes.

**BorderCountess**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

For funsies?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

For funsies?

I apologize, I already have a better than unit called a Telemon, which costs less, and is generally better in most ways. Until they make knights T9 in the next patch.

**greavous**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

For funsies?

I apologize, I already have a better than unit called a Telemon, which costs less, and is generally better in most ways. Until they make knights T9 in the next patch.

it may come as a shock but we dont all run whats most meta

**BorderCountess**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

For funsies?

I apologize, I already have a better than unit called a Telemon, which costs less, and is generally better in most ways. Until they make knights T9 in the next patch.

Wait, I found the problem: loyalists. Chaos Knights are WAY more fun.

**WisdomLS**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my question is WHY? This exacerbates Custodes largest problem, which I call the Catholic Model Conumdrum. Every Model and point is Sacred, and it's a sin to waste them.

For funsies?

I apologize, I already have a better than unit called a Telemon, which costs less, and is generally better in most ways. Until they make knights T9 in the next patch.

You don't take a big knight, you take two armiger Helverins with the Hunter of Beasts choice. Puts out alot of accurate, powerful, long ranged firepower from 2 tough mobile platforms - really adds alot to the custodes arsenal.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Can you take two Freeblade Helverins? I thought it was 1x knight.

**U02dah4**

1 x LOW slot

A helverin slot contains 1-3 helverin that deploy together then act as seperate units

**ikeulhu**

Yup, adding 2-3 Helverins or even Warglaives can actually add some nice heavier weapon options to Custodes and nothing says you can't still bring a Telemon if you want as well (forcing your opponent to really pick his targets when it comes to his AV)

I'm actually surprised I have not seen more people try Armigers along side Stodes since the add-on Freeblade rules became a thing, but then I was combining Armigers with Stodes before either got a 9th edition Codex yet (the real sweet spot was when Armigers got obsec from early rules update while almost all Stodes still had it too before their 9th codex).

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

So wait, a freeblade is a one of the mini-knights? I thought a Freeblade was just one of the big stompers.

**p5freak**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So wait, a freeblade is a one of the mini-knights? I thought a Freeblade was just one of the big stompers.

A freeblade can be any knight unit.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

p5freak wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So wait, a freeblade is a one of the mini-knights? I thought a Freeblade was just one of the big stompers.

A freeblade can be any knight unit.

Citation please.

**ikeulhu**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
p5freak wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So wait, a freeblade is a one of the mini-knights? I thought a Freeblade was just one of the big stompers.

A freeblade can be any knight unit.

Citation please.

Any Imperial Knight without a Noble Household defaults to a Freeblade instead, and yes that includes Armigers. If you want something concrete in the rules showing so, then the very first Martial Tradition for Freeblades on page 79 of the Codex has an ability that specifically affects Armiger-Class Knights.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

That's not a citation. Thats alluding to the interpretation of a citation. Show me where an Amiger = Knight. Then we can go down the rules of defining things. A knight is a knight. A Knight isn't a not knight. A Terminator is not a Tactical Marine.

**ikeulhu**

I will also point out this article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/28/need-something-smashed-bring-knightly-allies-to-the-party-without-breaking-army-rules/

Which has the line: "Did you know that Armigers and War Dogs get the Objective Secured ability in all-Knights Detachments? A unit of three even counts as a single Freeblade, so you can add the new, immensely versatile War Dogs or chain-cleaver-toting Warglaives and muscle your opponent off critical objectives."

Granted, WarCom often messes things up (which is why I did not include this originally), but then they are always quick to remove or edit it when they do fub on the rules. Fact this still exists as is speaks for itself.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Thank you. That qualifies to me. So you have to take a unit of 3. That makes sense. I would also still point out that at no point does it call Amigers Knights. It says a pack of 3 amigers "counts as" a freeblade unit. Not as a knight. That means to take amigers, it's almost 500 points. Hardly a great option for a Custodes list, which is why I gather you never see the combination.

EDIT: Upon closer review, the point about a trio being equal to a freeblade, was simply in the Obsec paragraph. This may indicate it was strictly for this purpose, and not actually indicating that 3 amigers counts as a Knight for the purposes of the "freeblade" rule. Flip the coin. Not to mention: "only ONE unit may have this keyword in your list" however after turn 1, the Amiger unit of 3 becomes three seperate units, thus violating the freeblade rule.

**U02dah4**

Its well established on the tourney scene you can argue all you want I've run it at my last two events and will do so at the next

**JohnnyHell**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thank you. That qualifies to me. So you have to take a unit of 3. That makes sense. I would also still point out that at no point does it call Amigers Knights. It says a pack of 3 amigers "counts as" a freeblade unit. Not as a knight. That means to take amigers, it's almost 500 points. Hardly a great option for a Custodes list, which is why I gather you never see the combination.

EDIT: Upon closer review, the point about a trio being equal to a freeblade, was simply in the Obsec paragraph. This may indicate it was strictly for this purpose, and not actually indicating that 3 amigers counts as a Knight for the purposes of the "freeblade" rule. Flip the coin. Not to mention: "only ONE unit may have this keyword in your list" however after turn 1, the Amiger unit of 3 becomes three seperate units, thus violating the freeblade rule.

Except you don’t check list eligibility again after you start deploying, so no. It’s a legal list to build. When you deploy you don’t refer back to list building. Simples.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

The only proof I have to rebut is the fact that literally no one has ever done or to my knowledge tried to put up a list like this at any event, and it's never been suggested, even before the soup rules.

Now I will just refrain, and say flip a coin, it doesn't even matter. I swore to myself I would stop engaging on YMDC, but here I am, so 20 lashes to me. But honestly, 9th is dead, and I very much doubt this will ever matter.