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Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

The Combat patrol boxes, baring a few exceptions are always good, especially for starting and for some (I.E. genestealers or luckily for you, Eldar) you can even buy multiple of! Only thing you wouldn't want multiple of in that box is the farseer, but you could always kibash them into warlocks, or just run another farseer.

It's my understanding that the Combat Patrol rules are designed to work with one Combat Patrol Box. You don't choose units in this version of the game- the units you use are exactly the units that come in the box.

Before you buy anything, I would download the Core Rules, the Combat Patrol Cards and the Index and read them closely. They're all free on the Warhammer Community website, so you might as well read before you buy.

I've heard that the Combat Patrol cards encourage you to make some modelling choices that may not be optimal for the full 40k game.

Even if it wasn't the case that combat patrol rules are designed to work with the contents of your faction's combat patrol box, the Prof's comment is accurate- the boxes tend to save you money and the Eldar box is a decent starter.

Eldar are pretty easy to magnetize. So with a little future proofing, you will be good to go from Combat Patrol to larger full games.

One thing to remember is that 99.99% of the time buying a multi-unit box will be cheaper than buying all the separate units. Sometimes not much cheaper, but usually.

Also in this edition specifically, as was previously mentioned, you don't get any options with Combat Patrol. You use what's in the box.

BadgerJones wrote:
What's my next step?

Run.

Eldar combat patrol 125e. Contents separately 213e.

You are hard pressed to not be justified getting it

I think I phrased my question incorrectly. Yeah it's a no-brainer to buy the Combat Patrol box.
What I meant to ask, and I apologize for this, I read somewhere that the units offered in the Combat Patrol box need to be tweaked a little, like substituting three of the flyers with something else.
That's what I meant. Sorry Folks!!

BadgerJones wrote:
I think I phrased my question incorrectly. Yeah it's a no-brainer to buy the Combat Patrol box.
What I meant to ask, and I apologize for this, I read somewhere that the units offered in the Combat Patrol box need to be tweaked a little, like substituting three of the flyers with something else.
That's what I meant. Sorry Folks!!

Minis in the box:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/combat-patrol-aeldari-2022

Combat Patrol rules:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/9pvZ2QO0f0nM7oFR.pdf

Full 40k rules:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/kQ4OfkQB5G05ZNX4.pdf

All of the models will work in both formats, but what gear is “optimal” will change. And in at least one case, it’s not even a side-grade, but you are being silly for not taking it.

In 10th, the points of the unit are the same regardless of what gear you give them (this is a hot topic of debate, to be followed in other threads)

The guardian squad in the CP list comes with a starcannon on it’s support platform. You may or my not want to field that in other lists. It’s not horrible, but might not fill the role you want.

The CP bikes are 4x catapults, 2x scatter lasers. In a normal 40k list, you are probably going to want to field them all with the same guns. They can choose between the twin linked cats, cannons, or scatter lasers. Pretty easy to magnetize. If you didn’t want to magnetize, it might be worth picking up another squad of 3, just so you could have a pack of 6 w/ cats to rush objectives, while 3 scatbikes flit about the backfield tossing support downrange.

The farseer is fine as it.

The wraithlord is a big issue. The CP has him with the glaive, 2x cats, and one brightlance. in the full list, you haave the option to swap the cats for flamers, (I’ve not done the math in 10th, they used to be roughly equivalent depending on what you wanted to do with them) but more importantly can take two heavy weapons, with a decent range to pick from. If the points are the same, why not take two brightlances instead of one? (or missile launchers, starcannons, shurcannons or scatter lasers)

So if you built your combat patrol WYSWYG, and then wanted to include the units in a larger 10th edition list with the full rules is would be on the sub-optimal side. Assuming points stay the same, nothing else changes, etc. Legal? Yes. But you would be leaving free options unused.

 SgtEeveell wrote:
One thing to remember is that 99.99% of the time buying a multi-unit box will be cheaper than buying all the separate units. Sometimes not much cheaper, but usually.

Also in this edition specifically, as was previously mentioned, you don't get any options with Combat Patrol. You use what's in the box.

Only if you want and will use, all the models inside. All it takes is for one unit in a GW "bargain box" to be something you don't want and the box stops to be a bargein. And this goes double for double faction boxes.

 Nevelon wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:
I think I phrased my question incorrectly. Yeah it's a no-brainer to buy the Combat Patrol box.
What I meant to ask, and I apologize for this, I read somewhere that the units offered in the Combat Patrol box need to be tweaked a little, like substituting three of the flyers with something else.
That's what I meant. Sorry Folks!!

Minis in the box:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/combat-patrol-aeldari-2022

Combat Patrol rules:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/9pvZ2QO0f0nM7oFR.pdf

Full 40k rules:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/kQ4OfkQB5G05ZNX4.pdf

All of the models will work in both formats, but what gear is “optimal” will change. And in at least one case, it’s not even a side-grade, but you are being silly for not taking it.

In 10th, the points of the unit are the same regardless of what gear you give them (this is a hot topic of debate, to be followed in other threads)

The guardian squad in the CP list comes with a starcannon on it’s support platform. You may or my not want to field that in other lists. It’s not horrible, but might not fill the role you want.

The CP bikes are 4x catapults, 2x scatter lasers. In a normal 40k list, you are probably going to want to field them all with the same guns. They can choose between the twin linked cats, cannons, or scatter lasers. Pretty easy to magnetize. If you didn’t want to magnetize, it might be worth picking up another squad of 3, just so you could have a pack of 6 w/ cats to rush objectives, while 3 scatbikes flit about the backfield tossing support downrange.

The farseer is fine as it.

The wraithlord is a big issue. The CP has him with the glaive, 2x cats, and one brightlance. in the full list, you haave the option to swap the cats for flamers, (I’ve not done the math in 10th, they used to be roughly equivalent depending on what you wanted to do with them) but more importantly can take two heavy weapons, with a decent range to pick from. If the points are the same, why not take two brightlances instead of one? (or missile launchers, starcannons, shurcannons or scatter lasers)

So if you built your combat patrol WYSWYG, and then wanted to include the units in a larger 10th edition list with the full rules is would be on the sub-optimal side. Assuming points stay the same, nothing else changes, etc. Legal? Yes. But you would be leaving free options unused.

To add and expand:

What is true for this edition is unlikely to be true 2-3 editions from now. But is possible to be true again 5-6 expansions from now. 40K, especially the rules are cyclical. There are many concepts GW loves too much to give up but rarely executes well. After a few years of collecting you could end up with 6 sets of Wraithblades on the shelf - 3 with "Sword and Board", 3 with the double swords just because one edition Axe and Shield is good, the next Two Swords is best, and the one after neither is good and most people go Aspect Warriors.

The things to learn from that is:
Whenever possible, magnetize your models for option swaps.
Pick at least one additional/second faction to collect.

This depends on who you're planning to play with, but if it's just friends then you can usually get away with proxying loadouts. Strict wysiwyg (what you see is what you get) is usually only enforced in tournaments and I find magnetizing stuff smaller than dreadnoughts annoying (this is obviously subjective). It's easy to say "all my wraithblades are armed with double swords", just keep the sword/shield ones in the back of the unit so the unit's armament is visibly clear to your opponent

I agree with Breton, inter- and intra faction balance can vary wildly between and even within editions. 40k is known for the setting, not for top-tier rules. I'd wait before starting a second army though. An army is a large investment in money and time, and I think "gw made my army suck this edition" is a poor reason to start a new one (especially as there's no guarantee they won't screw your new army over even harder tomorrow, speaking from experience ). I'd recommend seeing how you like playing eldar first. There's plenty of variety in there to explore.

Edit: if you find yourself easily defeating your opponents regularly then it might be time to check the eldar thread in the tactics section. A result of gw's poor balancing is that eldar usually have a handful of units that significantly overperform in an edition (which units that are changes every edition). You can usually find out which units those are in the faction thread (currently it looks to be wraithknights and fire prisms, but given how powerful they seem that could change tomorrow). This goes for underperforming units too, and that goes for your opponent's army too.

Most people are pretty chill, as long as things are close.

Yesterday I was evaluating my collection to see if I could put together a combat patrol. The answer was “close but not quite” but if I put it on the table most people would be fine.

I have 2 modern WLs. Only one has the sword. But she has flamers, not catapults. The big guns are magnetized though, so I can just pop off the extra and swap to a BL. I didn’t feel it was worth magnetizing the little guns when I built her.

I’ve got a dozen bikes. Half of them were built when scatter lasers were not even an option. The only choice was 1 in 3 could have cannons. So that’s how I built them. When the new bikes released, with the option to go 100% scatbikes, I didn’t go that way. It was a build that would win you games, but loose you friends. Now the 6 modern bike I built I future proofed and sunk magnets in for the guns. While I’m sure people would be fine with me saying “The 2 bikes with cannons are actually equipped with scatter lasers” I like to keep as close to WYSWYG as I can, so last night I dug around my bits box and grabbed some lasers to clean, mag, and paint.

Rules come and go. What’s hot today might be garbage tomorrow. Magnets help mitigate that. But it’s also important to remember that while rules are ephemeral, models endure. Build and paint what you like. The rules might be lackluster sometimes, but there is always joy in putting a well painted model onto the battlefield.

shortymcnostrill wrote:
This depends on who you're planning to play with, but if it's just friends then you can usually get away with proxying loadouts. Strict wysiwyg (what you see is what you get) is usually only enforced in tournaments and I find magnetizing stuff smaller than dreadnoughts annoying (this is obviously subjective). It's easy to say "all my wraithblades are armed with double swords", just keep the sword/shield ones in the back of the unit so the unit's armament is visibly clear to your opponent

I agree with Breton, inter- and intra faction balance can vary wildly between and even within editions. 40k is known for the setting, not for top-tier rules. I'd wait before starting a second army though. An army is a large investment in money and time, and I think "gw made my army suck this edition" is a poor reason to start a new one (especially as there's no guarantee they won't screw your new army over even harder tomorrow, speaking from experience ). I'd recommend seeing how you like playing eldar first. There's plenty of variety in there to explore.

Edit: if you find yourself easily defeating your opponents regularly then it might be time to check the eldar thread in the tactics section. A result of gw's poor balancing is that eldar usually have a handful of units that significantly overperform in an edition (which units that are changes every edition). You can usually find out which units those are in the faction thread (currently it looks to be wraithknights and fire prisms, but given how powerful they seem that could change tomorrow). This goes for underperforming units too, and that goes for your opponent's army too.

Starting a second army is actually not so bad - especially if one of them is Marines. At that point all the starter sets and a large number of the Special Run boxed sets will easily provide a second Combat patrol in addition to the new Marine models you're after. I've got multiple halves of Eldar, Nids, Chaos (Generic), and Deathguard. The real "expense" that's tough to "pay" is the assembly and painting time involved.

Also don't get put off too much by the Eldar - shall we say - criticism in here. Most players tend to have an opposition army they just don't like. Eldar is a popular one because they've recently ridden high on the balance wave - but they've also been buried under the wave for a while before that. Play smart/fair/balanced/fluffy and you'll get games based on the type of games you give more than the army you pick.

Breton wrote:
Play smart/fair/balanced/fluffy and you'll get games based on the type of games you give more than the army you pick.

Exalted.

Breton 810458 11555842 wrote:

Also don't get put off too much by the Eldar - shall we say - criticism in here. Most players tend to have an opposition army they just don't like. Eldar is a popular one because they've recently ridden high on the balance wave - but they've also been buried under the wave for a while before that. Play smart/fair/balanced/fluffy and you'll get games based on the type of games you give more than the army you pick.

Eldar have "ridden high" in 9 editions out of 10. And the only edition they didn't, was one where they didn't get a codex. A balanced eldar army is going beaten the living hell out of an unopitmised mid tier list, and for low tier lists it doesn't even matter what they do, because gap is that big. And this is before any fluff stuff skewing stuff hard, by someone liking stuff like eldar constructs or tanks. And worse thing about it is the fact that if multiple people are starting the game, there is a non zero chance that the non eldar players don't end up with a non optimised list. It is not just an eldar problem, in 10th, but it is a real one. Getting blown off the table turn one, becaus your friend plays knights and towering does what it does, ain't very fun either. Of course eldar have their towering units too, and they are cheaper, then regular knights.

Karol wrote:

Breton 810458 11555842 wrote:

Also don't get put off too much by the Eldar - shall we say - criticism in here. Most players tend to have an opposition army they just don't like. Eldar is a popular one because they've recently ridden high on the balance wave - but they've also been buried under the wave for a while before that. Play smart/fair/balanced/fluffy and you'll get games based on the type of games you give more than the army you pick.

Eldar have "ridden high" in 9 editions out of 10. And the only edition they didn't, was one where they didn't get a codex. A balanced eldar army is going beaten the living hell out of an unopitmised mid tier list, and for low tier lists it doesn't even matter what they do, because gap is that big. And this is before any fluff stuff skewing stuff hard, by someone liking stuff like eldar constructs or tanks. And worse thing about it is the fact that if multiple people are starting the game, there is a non zero chance that the non eldar players don't end up with a non optimised list. It is not just an eldar problem, in 10th, but it is a real one. Getting blown off the table turn one, becaus your friend plays knights and towering does what it does, ain't very fun either. Of course eldar have their towering units too, and they are cheaper, then regular knights.

Oh come, you only started playing in what, 7th or 8th? What do you know of eldar in 4th?

I started eldar somewhere in 3rd or 4th, and it's like I mentioned in my previous post in this thread. They're a faction of specialized units. Most edition changes a select few of those units become overly powerful. Which units those are changes each edition semi-randomly, there's no guarantee you even own them. The rest of the units in the codex have often been midtier at best. See striking scorpions that couldn't shred hordes or howling banshees harmlessly bouncing off space marines for examples of the power levels of weak units in previous eldar codexes.

An example: in 7th eldar wraithknights and jetbikes with scatter lasers were oppressively powerful. It was common knowledge that eldar were OP then, but this was solely due to these two units (surprisingly most other units were solid in that codex, but certainly not gamebreakingly strong). I don't own a wraithknight and my jetbikes have the oldschool 2 shuriken catapult: 1 shrieker cannon ratio, not scatter lasers. I was trying to make storm guardians work instead, a historically weak unit. Were my eldar op then?

This is what I meant when I advised the OP to check for over- and underperforming units. The balance in power between units in the eldar codex is usually all over the place. A few are really strong (and should definitely be addressed by gw), most are mediocre and some are practically useless.

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

My frank advice is to not buy anything through official vendors unless you want to bleed money at enormous rates. 3D printing is better than ever now and will swiftly pay for an army, however it does require special space for it and ventilation. If that's not an option, or on top of a printer, recasting, budget buys off of ebay, etc, are the winning route for wargaming in general. I would never advise people to get into 40k through the GW stores or even FLGS these days since GW crippled the discounts that used to be offered. That said, combat patrol boxes or such collections are often good resources for getting started on an army, but overall I would caution you to not leap headfirst into the hobby. I'm not even sure I would advise you play 40k lol vs other alternatives like Grimdark Future or such. It is far better that you move forward with critical buying so you don't regret purchases down the road, or stare at a pile of plastic that will never be painted.

PenitentJake wrote:

Breton wrote:
Play smart/fair/balanced/fluffy and you'll get games based on the type of games you give more than the army you pick.

Exalted.

This is the key (have another exalt!).

I wasn't going to mention other rulesets, grimdark future is a solid one though

 Wyzilla wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

My frank advice is to not buy anything through official vendors unless you want to bleed money at enormous rates. 3D printing is better than ever now and will swiftly pay for an army, however it does require special space for it and ventilation. If that's not an option, or on top of a printer, recasting, budget buys off of ebay, etc, are the winning route for wargaming in general. I would never advise people to get into 40k through the GW stores or even FLGS these days since GW crippled the discounts that used to be offered. That said, combat patrol boxes or such collections are often good resources for getting started on an army, but overall I would caution you to not leap headfirst into the hobby. I'm not even sure I would advise you play 40k lol vs other alternatives like Grimdark Future or such. It is far better that you move forward with critical buying so you don't regret purchases down the road, or stare at a pile of plastic that will never be painted.

I appreciate your reply on this. Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure I want to play the game. In my original post I mention how lively the buzz about 10th was getting and I kinda got caught up in that. I still enjoy painting more than playing and I'm actually selling some of what I'm painting, which is pretty cool, I think. I'm just not all-in on the lore of 40K, very dark and grim.
I have been looking at Star Wars: Legion, it's Star Wars and already it's up beat.

BadgerJones wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

My frank advice is to not buy anything through official vendors unless you want to bleed money at enormous rates. 3D printing is better than ever now and will swiftly pay for an army, however it does require special space for it and ventilation. If that's not an option, or on top of a printer, recasting, budget buys off of ebay, etc, are the winning route for wargaming in general. I would never advise people to get into 40k through the GW stores or even FLGS these days since GW crippled the discounts that used to be offered. That said, combat patrol boxes or such collections are often good resources for getting started on an army, but overall I would caution you to not leap headfirst into the hobby. I'm not even sure I would advise you play 40k lol vs other alternatives like Grimdark Future or such. It is far better that you move forward with critical buying so you don't regret purchases down the road, or stare at a pile of plastic that will never be painted.

I appreciate your reply on this. Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure I want to play the game. In my original post I mention how lively the buzz about 10th was getting and I kinda got caught up in that. I still enjoy painting more than playing and I'm actually selling some of what I'm painting, which is pretty cool, I think. I'm just not all-in on the lore of 40K, very dark and grim.
I have been looking at Star Wars: Legion, it's Star Wars and already it's up beat.

keep in mind grim dark doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and up beat.
try the Ciaphas Cain novels. the nice thing about 40k is, barring GW doing something stupid that kills the company, it's here to stay, Legion being a lisenced IP well... the lisence could dissapper very suddnly

BrianDavion wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

My frank advice is to not buy anything through official vendors unless you want to bleed money at enormous rates. 3D printing is better than ever now and will swiftly pay for an army, however it does require special space for it and ventilation. If that's not an option, or on top of a printer, recasting, budget buys off of ebay, etc, are the winning route for wargaming in general. I would never advise people to get into 40k through the GW stores or even FLGS these days since GW crippled the discounts that used to be offered. That said, combat patrol boxes or such collections are often good resources for getting started on an army, but overall I would caution you to not leap headfirst into the hobby. I'm not even sure I would advise you play 40k lol vs other alternatives like Grimdark Future or such. It is far better that you move forward with critical buying so you don't regret purchases down the road, or stare at a pile of plastic that will never be painted.

I appreciate your reply on this. Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure I want to play the game. In my original post I mention how lively the buzz about 10th was getting and I kinda got caught up in that. I still enjoy painting more than playing and I'm actually selling some of what I'm painting, which is pretty cool, I think. I'm just not all-in on the lore of 40K, very dark and grim.
I have been looking at Star Wars: Legion, it's Star Wars and already it's up beat.

keep in mind grim dark doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and up beat.
try the Ciaphas Cain novels. the nice thing about 40k is, barring GW doing something stupid that kills the company, it's here to stay, Legion being a lisenced IP well... the lisence could dissapper very suddnly

And that concern is what I forgot to include in my reply. In the past, Star Wars games of all kinds have had the rug pulled out from under gamers more than a few times over licensing issues. As soon as that happens, gamers seem to stop playing the game immediately. I guess I'll give 40K a better look. I'm retired now (64) and looking for something fun and maybe a little competitive to get involved in. Plus I love painting minis anyway.

So I really appreciate all the input. And if I do choose 40k, I will do so slowly.

BadgerJones wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

BadgerJones wrote:
Hi folks, just getting started with Warhammer 40k. I've been painting minis for a long while, but all the recent and enthusiastic buzz at the FLGS about 10th edition's Combat Patrol rules has me interested in actually playing the game.
I'm leaning towards Aeldari for my first army.
My question is, should I just go out and buy the Aeldari Combat Patrol box? Or should I buy units separately and build my combat patrol that way?

Thanks, to all! Cheers.

My frank advice is to not buy anything through official vendors unless you want to bleed money at enormous rates. 3D printing is better than ever now and will swiftly pay for an army, however it does require special space for it and ventilation. If that's not an option, or on top of a printer, recasting, budget buys off of ebay, etc, are the winning route for wargaming in general. I would never advise people to get into 40k through the GW stores or even FLGS these days since GW crippled the discounts that used to be offered. That said, combat patrol boxes or such collections are often good resources for getting started on an army, but overall I would caution you to not leap headfirst into the hobby. I'm not even sure I would advise you play 40k lol vs other alternatives like Grimdark Future or such. It is far better that you move forward with critical buying so you don't regret purchases down the road, or stare at a pile of plastic that will never be painted.

I appreciate your reply on this. Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure I want to play the game. In my original post I mention how lively the buzz about 10th was getting and I kinda got caught up in that. I still enjoy painting more than playing and I'm actually selling some of what I'm painting, which is pretty cool, I think. I'm just not all-in on the lore of 40K, very dark and grim.
I have been looking at Star Wars: Legion, it's Star Wars and already it's up beat.

keep in mind grim dark doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and up beat.
try the Ciaphas Cain novels. the nice thing about 40k is, barring GW doing something stupid that kills the company, it's here to stay, Legion being a lisenced IP well... the lisence could dissapper very suddnly

And that concern is what I forgot to include in my reply. In the past, Star Wars games of all kinds have had the rug pulled out from under gamers more than a few times over licensing issues. As soon as that happens, gamers seem to stop playing the game immediately. I guess I'll give 40K a better look. I'm retired now (64) and looking for something fun and maybe a little competitive to get involved in. Plus I love painting minis anyway.

So I really appreciate all the input. And if I do choose 40k, I will do so slowly.

If you want to play around in the 40K universe, take a look at Necromunda. You'll only need a dozen or less guys for your gang, not dozens and dozens.

I like Kill Team for exploring the 'Vrse on the cheap better than Munda.

KT can become 40k really easily.

Munda? Not so much.

Thanks for all the input, Folks. Much appreciated.
I have decided not to get into 40k right now. I spoke to a bunch of players and watched a lot of games at the FLGS, and it doesn't look like something I'd be interested in dumping large wads of retirement income into.
I'll continue to paint miniatures, but not minis connected directly to games like 40k.
So thanks again, everyone, have fun!