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Is Creed allowed to use tactical genius with the reinforcement stratagem, in order to get 0cp and a second use per phase?

The argument for allowing the interaction is that you use tactical genius between a unit being "destroyed" and "removed from the battlefield". The rule for destroyed is:

DESTROYED
Throughout a battle, models will suffer damage and be destroyed. When a model is destroyed, it is removed from the battlefield. When every model in a unit has been destroyed, that unit is destroyed.

So it could be argued that there is time between the two that allows you to interact with units. For completeness, here are the two other rules in this interaction:

Tactical Genius: Once per battle round, one unit from your army within 12" of this model can be targeted with a Stratagem for 0CP, even if another unit from your army has already been targeted with that Stratagem this phase.

And the target part of the reinforcement stratagem:

TARGET: One Regiment unit from your army that was just destroyed. You can use this Stratagem on that unit even though it was just destroyed.

"Just after" is also an entry in the commentaries, for which the abridged version states:

If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened, it is resolved before anything else happens.

Finally, there is precedent for rules triggering between being destroyed and removed from play. Deadly demise, for example, need to happen at this step, or there would be no model to measure distances from.

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In conclusion, the argument is this: you lose the last model in a unit and the unit is destroyed. Before removing it from play, you can interupt the sequence using the "just destroyed" clause. At this point, you can still measure 12" to Creed, as the model has been destroyed but not removed, and her ability would be allowed to trigger.

Personally, I'm unsure on the intent of this interaction. But the case for RAW, at least, seems quite viable. Can anyone poke any RAW holes in this thought process? Or maybe people want to discuss the HYWPI of this. Tbh, I thought the whole thing was nonsense until the deadly demise rule was pointed out to me, and shows that there is a stage between destroyed and removed.

Nope, there is a bit in the rules commentary that explains that all 'just' rules allow for nothing inbetween:

Just After: If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened,
it is resolved before anything else happens. For example, if a rule
is triggered ‘just after’ a unit selects targets for its attacks, that
rule is resolved before those attacks are resolved. The triggering of
such rules can therefore interrupt normal sequences such as the
attack sequence or the charge sequence.

IMHO the destroyed unit does not 'exist' anymore, and thus can't be targeted. The Stratagem has an explicit exemption from that, while Creed's rule does not, so imho it won't work.

The unit is destroyed after the last model is removed. When you do that, there is no way to measure to the unit.

Tsagualsa wrote:
Nope, there is a bit in the rules commentary that explains that all 'just' rules allow for nothing inbetween:

Just After: If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened,
it is resolved before anything else happens. For example, if a rule
is triggered ‘just after’ a unit selects targets for its attacks, that
rule is resolved before those attacks are resolved. The triggering of
such rules can therefore interrupt normal sequences such as the
attack sequence or the charge sequence.

IMHO the destroyed unit does not 'exist' anymore, and thus can't be targeted. The Stratagem has an explicit exemption from that, while Creed's rule does not, so imho it won't work.

Interesting. So you would say that the "resolved before anything else happens" would mean there is no time for Creed's rule to fire before reinforcements is resolved?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The unit is destroyed after the last model is removed. When you do that, there is no way to measure to the unit.

That's not how the rules are worded though, or how would you be able to measure for deadly demise?

Deadly demise triggers when the model is destroyed but before removed from play

A unit ceases to exist after the last model is removed from play.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Deadly demise triggers when the model is destroyed but before removed from play

A unit ceases to exist after the last model is removed from play.

Yes, but the point is that these rules occur before the unit is removed from play.

You can’t target a destroyed unit with Creeds ability because you can’t measure the distance to a destroyed unit. You can’t normally target a destroyed unit at all, but Reinforcements gives you an explicit exemption from that.

 alextroy wrote:
You can’t target a destroyed unit with Creeds ability because you can’t measure the distance to a destroyed unit. You can’t normally target a destroyed unit at all, but Reinforcements gives you an explicit exemption from that.

You don't target a unit with Creed, it just works on a stratagem that targets them.

The unit has to be within 12". This requires you to measure

The unit is removed from play after the last model is removed from play. By definition, at hat point it is impossible to measure to the unit

Deadly demise is a model based rule. Not unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The unit has to be within 12". This requires you to measure

The unit is removed from play after the last model is removed from play. By definition, at hat point it is impossible to measure to the unit

Deadly demise is a model based rule. Not unit.

Crucially, that's also the earliest point you can use that Stratagem. It triggers 'just after' the unit was destroyed and removed from play. At this point, you can target it with that Stratagem still (because it explicitly allows it) but you can no longer measure a distance to Creed with it, because it was removed from the table.