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Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

I believe that ratlings can fire twice in a single turn, every turn, by using a transport's firing deck.I want to know if I have missed something.

So the sequence is this: disembark from a transport in the movement phase (or just be outside of transport, but this works with disembarking so is repeatable). Shoot in the shooting phase, then use scarper to embark in the transport again. Then, the transport can shoot the sniper rifles using the firing deck rule. You even get to use the heavy bonus for 2+ to hit, if you didnt move the transport.

I looked through the rules, and the restrictions to embarking and disembarking are to doing it in the same phase, not turn. The scarper rule that ratlings have lets them make a normal move in the shooting phase, and embarking is allowed after a normal move. No mention of embarking only in the movement phase.

I will 100% admit that it is an unintended exploit, but I'm just wondering if you can find any holes in the RAW.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I'm not sure that you're allowed to embark or disembark using an out-of-phase movement. The out-of-phase action rules specify

When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase.
and has an example where an 'after you have shot' ability doesn't apply:
In your opponent’s Movement phase, you use the Fire Overwatch Stratagem to enable a Whirlwind from your army to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. The Whirlwind has the Pinning Bombardment ability, which is used ‘In your Shooting phase, after this model has shot’. Because Fire Overwatch is an out-of-phase rule, it only allows the Whirlwind to perform the specified action (in this case, shooting as if it were your Shooting phase) and does not trigger any other rules that would normally be used in your Shooting phase. This means the Whirlwind’s Pinning Bombardment ability has no effect while resolving these attacks, and you could not use any other Stratagems that are used in your Shooting phase to affect those attacks.


A corollary from that would be that embarked scout models on a transport cannot disembark as part of their scout move, because that's attempting to apply a rule triggered by being on a transport in the movement phase.

Disclaimer: There are Eldar stratagems which allow an out-of-phase move and then explicitly forbid embarking on a transport. Redundancy or not?
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 solkan wrote:
I'm not sure that you're allowed to embark or disembark using an out-of-phase movement. The out-of-phase action rules specify

When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase.
and has an example where an 'after you have shot' ability doesn't apply:
In your opponent’s Movement phase, you use the Fire Overwatch Stratagem to enable a Whirlwind from your army to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. The Whirlwind has the Pinning Bombardment ability, which is used ‘In your Shooting phase, after this model has shot’. Because Fire Overwatch is an out-of-phase rule, it only allows the Whirlwind to perform the specified action (in this case, shooting as if it were your Shooting phase) and does not trigger any other rules that would normally be used in your Shooting phase. This means the Whirlwind’s Pinning Bombardment ability has no effect while resolving these attacks, and you could not use any other Stratagems that are used in your Shooting phase to affect those attacks.


A corollary from that would be that embarked scout models on a transport cannot disembark as part of their scout move, because that's attempting to apply a rule triggered by being on a transport in the movement phase.

Disclaimer: There are Eldar stratagems which allow an out-of-phase move and then explicitly forbid embarking on a transport. Redundancy or not?

I believe that's how GW would rule - that you can't embark as part of the out of phase movement - but I also believe they would have allowed embarking as part of a "normal move" if this hadn't come up. i.e. I think they'd agree with you because its easier not because that's how they saw the rules.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

EMBARK
If a unit makes a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move, and every model in that unit ends that move within 3" of a friendly Transport model, they can embark within it. A unit cannot embark if it has already disembarked from a Transport model in the same phase. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side – it is now embarked within that Transport model. Unless otherwise stated, units cannot do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked.
Embarking is not restricted to the Movement Phase. It can be done after any Normal, Advance, or Fall Back move unless otherwise restricted.

So yes, you can get double duty out of your Ratlings by shooting and then embarking before the Transport fires. You can gain up to 2 Sniper Rifles with a Chimera or all 5 by embarking in a Banehammer, Doomhammer, or Stormlord.

I don't think we will be seeing this tactic at the top table.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 solkan wrote:
I'm not sure that you're allowed to embark or disembark using an out-of-phase movement. The out-of-phase action rules specify

When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase.
and has an example where an 'after you have shot' ability doesn't apply:
In your opponent’s Movement phase, you use the Fire Overwatch Stratagem to enable a Whirlwind from your army to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. The Whirlwind has the Pinning Bombardment ability, which is used ‘In your Shooting phase, after this model has shot’. Because Fire Overwatch is an out-of-phase rule, it only allows the Whirlwind to perform the specified action (in this case, shooting as if it were your Shooting phase) and does not trigger any other rules that would normally be used in your Shooting phase. This means the Whirlwind’s Pinning Bombardment ability has no effect while resolving these attacks, and you could not use any other Stratagems that are used in your Shooting phase to affect those attacks.


A corollary from that would be that embarked scout models on a transport cannot disembark as part of their scout move, because that's attempting to apply a rule triggered by being on a transport in the movement phase.

Disclaimer: There are Eldar stratagems which allow an out-of-phase move and then explicitly forbid embarking on a transport. Redundancy or not?


Thing is embark isn't phase resricted. You can do any phase you meet condition.

Embark isn't "in your movement phase...".
   
 
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