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Has anyone come to any conclusions regarding aircraft in 10th edition?

Pivoting after moving does not seem ideal since they may be forced to fly off and miss a turn of shooting or get really out of position every 2 turns.
All also seem to be higher in point cost comparatively then ground vehicles.
Strategic reserves have been buffed so their starting location is a lot more flexible, especially with 24-36inch gun, but also cant move when they arrive.

Yes thank God. Aircrafts got nerfed and good riddance.

Yeah, non-hovering aircrafts are now almost litterally unplayable

99% of them are F-tier and unplayable. Unless they have such a blatantly overpowered base stat line that they can overcome the massive drawbacks aircraft are dead in 10th. Don't waste your money on them.

Bonus points for the FW models that come on bases that are larger than 6" and so can't shoot on the turn they arrive from reserve, after which they're probably move blocked into flying right off the table and back into reserve.

What are your opinions on the Valkyrie?

Seems very durable and useful, but the price is looking expensive AF.

Is it better to use as hover or full aircraft mode and parachute some karskin in?

 Guillérmidas wrote:
What are your opinions on the Valkyrie?

Seems very durable and useful, but the price is looking expensive AF.

Is it better to use as hover or full aircraft mode and parachute some karskin in?

F-tier like most aircraft. It's way too expensive, its offense sucks, you have to hover and forfeit most of the advantages of aircraft if you want to disembark passengers before turn 3, and guard already have mass BS 3+ special weapon spam that can deep strike without a 200 point transport. There's nothing it does that can't be done by better units.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Yeah, non-hovering aircrafts are now almost litterally unplayable

I'm not sure that I agree. With a bit of planning you can fly around your side of the board to get some decent fire out. Plus if you have 36-48" range guns, then you can ignore all the los-blocking ruins and shoot at all the units you want.

Some of the Imperial Navy fighter seem like they could have a lot of play in them. Avengers and Lightnings are both 130 points, which is quite cheap for a decently tanky plane. The Lightning has 4 shots, nearly all lascannon levels. The Avenger gets a nice gatling cannon and a couple of lascannons.

If you take an Officer of the Fleet, you can get them hitting on 3+, or 2+ with orders.

I'm still undecided on the Vulture. 36 shots with sustained hits, plus a 2+ save, sounds interesting. But it is 225 points and has a limited 24" range.

 Trickstick wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Yeah, non-hovering aircrafts are now almost litterally unplayable

I'm not sure that I agree. With a bit of planning you can fly around your side of the board to get some decent fire out. Plus if you have 36-48" range guns, then you can ignore all the los-blocking ruins and shoot at all the units you want.

Some of the Imperial Navy fighter seem like they could have a lot of play in them. Avengers and Lightnings are both 130 points, which is quite cheap for a decently tanky plane. The Lightning has 4 shots, nearly all lascannon levels. The Avenger gets a nice gatling cannon and a couple of lascannons.

If you take an Officer of the Fleet, you can get them hitting on 3+, or 2+ with orders.

I'm still undecided on the Vulture. 36 shots with sustained hits, plus a 2+ save, sounds interesting. But it is 225 points and has a limited 24" range.

a model that is forced to not attack, when its litterally the only way it can interact with the board is automatically worse. Forcing Aircrafts to come in from reserve on turn 2 was an idiotic overcompensation for Eldar plane spam being good in 8th and like 3 flyer datasheet being good in 9th.

Its the same stupid fix as the "2 flyers max per army" and "3 buggies only" for orks

What about flyers like heldrakes and flying demons

mrFickle wrote:
What about flyers like heldrakes and flying demons

The Helldrakes stats marginally improved from 9e (I think). And it can now attack non-flyers in CC!
It being an Aircraft & forced to enter turn 2+ though.... Maybe to its advantage? I mean, you get to see where it'll do the most good. The flip side of that is that its still just a Helldrake. :(

What about flying demons?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
a model that is forced to not attack, when its litterally the only way it can interact with the board is automatically worse. Forcing Aircrafts to come in from reserve on turn 2 was an idiotic overcompensation for Eldar plane spam being good in 8th and like 3 flyer datasheet being good in 9th.

It does keep them safe from shooting if you go second though, and they can come in on the sides of the board for good shots.

Aircraft can't charge so the heldrake has to be in hover mode. Really should have just gone back to it being a flying monstrous creature but whatever.

 Trickstick wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
a model that is forced to not attack, when its litterally the only way it can interact with the board is automatically worse. Forcing Aircrafts to come in from reserve on turn 2 was an idiotic overcompensation for Eldar plane spam being good in 8th and like 3 flyer datasheet being good in 9th.

It does keep them safe from shooting if you go second though, and they can come in on the sides of the board for good shots.

Yeah. Coming on reserve isn't all that big drawback except for transport ones. If that was so bad nobody would deep strike or use strategic reserves ever.

tneva82 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
a model that is forced to not attack, when its litterally the only way it can interact with the board is automatically worse. Forcing Aircrafts to come in from reserve on turn 2 was an idiotic overcompensation for Eldar plane spam being good in 8th and like 3 flyer datasheet being good in 9th.

It does keep them safe from shooting if you go second though, and they can come in on the sides of the board for good shots.

Yeah. Coming on reserve isn't all that big drawback except for transport ones. If that was so bad nobody would deep strike or use strategic reserves ever.

look at what kind of units are usually put in reserves, how often is it your heavy hitters? From my experience, its mostly small utility squads that are used to snag secondaries on later turns in the game.

The heavy hitters get deployed hidden behind terrain.

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah. Coming on reserve isn't all that big drawback except for transport ones. If that was so bad nobody would deep strike or use strategic reserves ever.

It's a big drawback because you must start in reserve. Normal units may sometimes start there depending on the situation but you always have the option to start them on the table and use them immediately. Aircraft don't get that choice, they're stuck in reserve to start and will probably end up spending at least one more turn there because of their movement rules.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
a model that is forced to not attack, when its litterally the only way it can interact with the board is automatically worse. Forcing Aircrafts to come in from reserve on turn 2 was an idiotic overcompensation for Eldar plane spam being good in 8th and like 3 flyer datasheet being good in 9th.

It does keep them safe from shooting if you go second though, and they can come in on the sides of the board for good shots.

Yeah. Coming on reserve isn't all that big drawback except for transport ones. If that was so bad nobody would deep strike or use strategic reserves ever.

look at what kind of units are usually put in reserves, how often is it your heavy hitters? From my experience, its mostly small utility squads that are used to snag secondaries on later turns in the game.

The heavy hitters get deployed hidden behind terrain.

10 scarab terminators count as heavy hitters?

They would be unable to shoot anything t1 if they start on board anyway. Even going 2nd odds of getting to shoot anything worthwhile is pretty darned low.

 Trickstick wrote:
Some of the Imperial Navy fighter seem like they could have a lot of play in them. Avengers and Lightnings are both 130 points, which is quite cheap for a decently tanky plane. The Lightning has 4 shots, nearly all lascannon levels. The Avenger gets a nice gatling cannon and a couple of lascannons.

The problem is buffs. You pay 130 points but it's hard to get beyond the base stat line of "four shots, hit twice, wound once, maybe it isn't saved". Lord Solar is the only way to give aircraft orders, and the +1 to hit requires getting a command squad into position and paying the tax to bring something that is only useful for buffing your one flyer. And then you lose 20% of its potential contribution because of the reserves rule, maybe even 40% or 60% depending how awkward the movement rules are in a particular game. And then you subtract even more value since it can't contribute to scoring objective VP, move block/tar pit/etc. All it can do is plink away with those four BS 4+ lascannons.

Granted, it's probably one of the least-bad options simply because of how cheap it is but I'm still not seeing a lot of value here.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Lord Solar is the only way to give aircraft orders, and the +1 to hit requires getting a command squad into position and paying the tax to bring something that is only useful for buffing your one flyer.

Leontus is pretty much an auto-take, and with a 24" order range is not too difficult to get into position. The attache can help multiple aircraft, as the ability targets a visible enemy unit within 30". You also get the master of ordnance, who does the same thing and buffs artillery. So getting a 3+ is pretty simple, whilst a 2+ is not too difficult with a bit of planning. So you can really put the hurt on a key enemy unit.

tneva82 wrote:


10 scarab terminators count as heavy hitters?

They would be unable to shoot anything t1 if they start on board anyway. Even going 2nd odds of getting to shoot anything worthwhile is pretty darned low.

bro what?

theyre one of the hardest hitting units in the TS codex lol, and 10-men almost always start on the board... Its the small 5-man you pick for utility that you will deepstrike.

What about 10 man scion squads deepstriking? You would start those in reserves. Actually, there are plenty of heavy hitters you start in reserve to make use of outflank/deepstrike delivery options.

 Trickstick wrote:
What about 10 man scion squads deepstriking? You would start those in reserves. Actually, there are plenty of heavy hitters you start in reserve to make use of outflank/deepstrike delivery options.

A 120 point throwaway infantry unit isn't really a "heavy hitter" (or very good right now).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:
Leontus is pretty much an auto-take, and with a 24" order range is not too difficult to get into position. The attache can help multiple aircraft, as the ability targets a visible enemy unit within 30". You also get the master of ordnance, who does the same thing and buffs artillery. So getting a 3+ is pretty simple, whilst a 2+ is not too difficult with a bit of planning. So you can really put the hurt on a key enemy unit.

24" range and "just has to be visible" sounds good until you remember that most of the reason to take aircraft is to reach those back corner hidden targets that you can't see or reach otherwise. If a target is visible and within 24" just kill it with a demolisher as usual.