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While the Chaos Primarchs are fairly easy to come and go - I mean it's a day ending in Y, in a Month ending in R Angron must be invading Armageddon again - But the Loyalist Primarchs are another matter - especially if you bring back the ones with duplicative exits - Corvax/Russ/Khan on a solo campaign in the Warp/Webway, Dorn and Vuklan in the Are-They-Or-Aren't They, and Guilliman and the Lion both as an Eventually Coma-Stasis. I mean putting both G and the Lion back into an Eventually Coma-Stasis is going to generate a lot of eyerolls. Had they brought back one of them, and one of the Lost Boys, then its easier to return to Status Quo. Which is a long way around of saying it looks like the Return of the Primarchi are here to stay. I'm sure not ALL of them will be able to return as easily and Cawl creating a 4 breasted nursemaid Servitor (Sanguinius, Ferrus, Konrad, Horus) is probably in a fan fiction somewhere but unlikely to make it to GW mainstream.

The only one we can be pretty sure is going to get regrown by a Cawl Handwave is Konrad. His backstory/motivation/psychosis runs into way too many paradox problems in almost any other way - Linking him to Sanguinius as resurrecting him at the same time as Sanguinius is possible as some sort of Psychic Space Vampire Twinnning thing - but that runs into why didn't Sanguinius come back while Konrad was still around thing. So Cawl-Konrad+Horus seems to be pretty locked to me.

Thus a normal two-breasted nursemaid sevitor is corrupted by the Dark Gods channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk - repeating the Tragedy of a Fallen Horus brought low by his own brothers in a nature/nurture neutral theme.

That said: I'm not convinced there isn't some use to be had out of the Psychic Twinning Space Vampire trope. The reason it took so long for the Black Rage to show up in the Primaris Marines is because it was coalescing around Konrad Jr. to keep his psychic mind from reaching out to his gene children and betraying his presence. The Scourging of Baal weakened the sons of Sanguinius such that there isn't enough Rage left to hide Konrad anymore, plus Konrad has gotten older and more powerful - so his children are on the way, The Blood Angels move to counter by psychic impulse, the Black Rage possesses the Sanguinor into Sanguinius Reborn.

The Salamanders finish their quest to recover the artifacts of Vulkan only to find the last most secret and unlisted Artefact is a Dreadnaught created by Vulkan and Ferrus Manus with the consciousness of Ferrus Manus as a failsafe for the Iron Hands entrusted to the Salamanders. This pulls Vulkan - who had been content to let his brothers bear the brunt of the struggle for a while longer - out of retirement/hiding.

Lorgar leaves the Immaterium to take the fight to the Ravenguard, Perturabo does the same against the the Imperial Fists trying to break through the Webway with an assist from the Faking-his-death Alpharius, running into the Khan - Corvax and Russ look around and wonder where everybody went - and hotfoot it back to the Imperium.

Though its also possible there could be two loyalist Primarchs and two Chaos Primarchs each on a different nursemaid one of which is corrupted by the Dark Gods. But that would be fairly simple, and way too fast given the current time table of Primarch releases.

What in the actual [expletive deleted] are you talking about?!

 MalusCalibur wrote:
What in the actual [expletive deleted] are you talking about?!

Just idle wonderings about how they'll bring the rest back. I like the story, and having big events that do very little is one of the things GW actually is pretty good at - mostly. 3 Chaos vs 2 Loyalists is better than 2 v 1. I wasn't sure they'd stick with the thing long enough to bring them all back - but I think they're locked in now that the two loyalists they brought back are Guilliman and the Lion. They had the same "McGuffin" so putting them back in the bottle is much less of an option than if they'd taken a second one with a different reason to be "absent". Its hard to take 2 of 2 off of Death's Door and then put them back there. Had they taken a guy from Death's Door, and one of the Lost Boys on their one-man crusade in the Eye - its easier to just put them back like nothing happened. And its always easy to handwave the Chaos Primarchs back into the Eye.

When it was just Guilliman it would have been easy to just turn off his armor, restart the clock on the poison, and set him back up on his Stasis Throne. Its harder to do that when you have to crack Lion in the head and have the Watchers drag him back to the center of the Rock.

Beyond that there are four pretty much confirmed dead Primarchs - Horus, Konrad, Ferrus, and Sanguinius. And we've already been teased with Cawl meddling with more than Guilliman would be happy with - be it Traitor Legions, recreating Primarchs or both.

There are three lost in the Eye and/or Webway: Khan, Russ, and Corax.

There are three still living in the Eye: Lorgar, Fulgrim and Perturabo.

There are three that may be dead, or may not be. Vulkan, Alpharius, and Rogal Dorn.

When they do bring them back, they tend to switch up their "Preferred Enemy". Morty vs Guilliman, Angron vs the Lion.

I like to see the ideas other people have. Some people like to guess which one is next.

Breton wrote:
Thus a normal two-breasted nursemaid sevitor is corrupted by the Dark Gods channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk - repeating the Tragedy of a Fallen Horus brought low by his own brothers in a nature/nurture neutral theme.

Breton wrote:
Thus a normal two-breasted nursemaid sevitor is corrupted by the Dark Gods channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk

Breton wrote:
channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk

Breton wrote:
through the milk

I have questions and concerns...

In practice, GW can re-write the story to do whatever they want. Bringing back the lore-relevant, "other characters very clearly saw you die and it had big narrative consequences which are still present today" Primarchs would seem like a shark jumping moment. But... they have the technology if they wanted to do it. Admittedly, whether some sort of memory implanted clone of Ferrus/Sanguinius/Horus really is them can be debated. But if the plastic must flow they can find a way.

FWIW I think handwaving Konrad's "death" is incredibly easy. "The Assassin got it wrong/Hi, at what point did I give the impression of being anything like a reliable narrator?" Its certainly no more hand-wavy than "what if the Primarchs just did nothing for the best part of 10k years."

Anyway, I think if you were a betting man, Fulgrim and Russ is the safest bet. To a degree I think Russ is kind of dull - but I imagine there are a lot more Space Wolf players out there than the other prospects (assuming Sanginius would be too stupid a jump).

Tyel wrote:

Breton wrote:
Thus a normal two-breasted nursemaid sevitor is corrupted by the Dark Gods channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk - repeating the Tragedy of a Fallen Horus brought low by his own brothers in a nature/nurture neutral theme.

Breton wrote:
Thus a normal two-breasted nursemaid sevitor is corrupted by the Dark Gods channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk

Breton wrote:
channeling through the psychic Konrad into Horus through the milk

Breton wrote:
through the milk

I have questions and concerns...

In practice, GW can re-write the story to do whatever they want. Bringing back the lore-relevant, "other characters very clearly saw you die and it had big narrative consequences which are still present today" Primarchs would seem like a shark jumping moment. But... they have the technology if they wanted to do it. Admittedly, whether some sort of memory implanted clone of Ferrus/Sanguinius/Horus really is them can be debated. But if the plastic must flow they can find a way.

FWIW I think handwaving Konrad's "death" is incredibly easy. "The Assassin got it wrong/Hi, at what point did I give the impression of being anything like a reliable narrator?" Its certainly no more hand-wavy than "what if the Primarchs just did nothing for the best part of 10k years."

Anyway, I think if you were a betting man, Fulgrim and Russ is the safest bet. To a degree I think Russ is kind of dull - but I imagine there are a lot more Space Wolf players out there than the other prospects (assuming Sanginius would be too stupid a jump).

Handwaving Konrad is harder that most of the rest. His whole deal is stuck in a loop - he predicted his death, so the assassin was allowed to kill him to make his prediction accurate

Breton wrote:
Handwaving Konrad is harder that most of the rest. His whole deal is stuck in a loop - he predicted his death, so the assassin was allowed to kill him to make his prediction accurate

Its easy. You write: "I lied." and then you move on.

Breton wrote:


Handwaving Konrad is harder that most of the rest. His whole deal is stuck in a loop - he predicted his death, so the assassin was allowed to kill him to make his prediction accurate

Not really, they laid the groundwork for Konrad shenanigans already with his maybe-yes-maybe-not Spirit Stone crown - if it actually is one, his soul may live on, for the chaos-adjacent dudes coming across an usable body is a surprisingly not-hard problem, and his vision may easily be incorporated as 'You killed me, and proved me right, shame that death turns out to be only a minor inconvenience to one such as I, mwahahahahha'.

This is the ultimate show down of ultimate desteny.

God I hope you're wrong about this. Weird nursing fetish stuff aside GW completely missing the point of the Heresy lore and bringing primarchs into 40k was a serious mistake. The best thing they could do for the game is just delete all of it and pretend it never happened. And TBH they should delete all of the 30k stuff as well, but we all know the Black Library cash cow isn't going anywhere.

I expect we'll see Russ return next of the loyalist primarchs, and we'll see some sort of super charged Sanguinor for the blood angels. gulgrim and the emperor's children will get their own dex, after that.

beyond that I'm not sure we'll see many more primarchs, it seems likely each codex will get it's own "primarch equivilant" the vanilla marines have gulliman, the wolves will get russ, the dark angels have the Lion, Blood angels will, as I said likely get the Sanguinor which will be their "equivilant" (in the same way Abaddon is basicly a CSM non-demon primarch equivilant)

BrianDavion wrote:
I expect we'll see Russ return next of the loyalist primarchs, and we'll see some sort of super charged Sanguinor for the blood angels. gulgrim and the emperor's children will get their own dex, after that.

beyond that I'm not sure we'll see many more primarchs, it seems likely each codex will get it's own "primarch equivilant" the vanilla marines have gulliman, the wolves will get russ, the dark angels have the Lion, Blood angels will, as I said likely get the Sanguinor which will be their "equivilant" (in the same way Abaddon is basicly a CSM non-demon primarch equivilant)

I'm wondering if Sanguinius is next - they're dumping Assault Marines, people are expecting a new Vanguard Vet kit (and maybe a regular Primaris Assault Marine replacement) - that all feeds into Sanguinius more than Russ.